Barefoot v Shod Feet

Bare in mind that when you go from shod to barefoot, your horse will be very footsore.

I've just made the change from fronts to barefoot all round and it's breaking my heart as he is still at the footsore stage. I feel like such a bad person riding him :(
 
I would do a search on here for barefoot - it prompts lots of discussion, some very heated. Some horses can easily transition, others take more time and its not just a question of whipping shoes off, you need to take a holisitic view of diet, environment and exercise to make it successful and it can take more than a few months to get right and then seasonal changes can affect it all. Without doubt there is a very compelling argument for going barefoot and its a fascinating journey but some owners and horses feel its not right for them for the above management reasons. Good luck - there are some fantastic people on here that know a lot about barefoot horses and there are some great books on the subject " Feet First" being one of them!
 
LaurenM said:
Bare in mind that when you go from shod to barefoot, your horse will be very footsore.
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I can't agree with this assertion, unless the word 'might' or 'could' are added in.

Lots of horses go barefoot with no problem at all. It is a very individual thing.

Horses that are footsore have a problem that needs fixing. How this is achieved is again a very individual and case specific thing.

Sometimes the problem is very temporary - a reaction perhaps to the increased blood flow in the foot, or decontraction (if the foot was contracted) or feeling the effects of hefty thrush for the first time.

Or it could be diet related.

But I don't know many barefooters who would recommend riding a sore horse - but they would advise finding out why it is sore and taking steps to relieve the pain and manage the issue while the problem is being resolved.
 
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Have not had any horses shod for 28 years. Don't intend to either but moving from shod to unshod can be tricky. Your farrier can give you the best advice.
 
My problem is farrier to barefoot trimmer. I may come across as 'anti-barefoot' but it is a certain trimmers who have given me a biaest opinion. Why don't you try shoes front, barefoot behind. Our cob mare suits this very well, though is very footsore compleatly barefoot but is fine without backshoes. My TB gets very sore though, and I have been told that it takes 18 months to fully adjust, but since most work he does is roadwork it just doesn't suit. Also after 4 WEEKS he has worn he is metal shoes compleatly due to the amount of roadowork he does, so he just couldn't do it without shoes.
There is a reason to shoe horses (i.e if they do a lot of work on the roads etc) but if you don't do much roadwork etc then most horses can get away with being unshod (by a proper farrier).
 
dominobrown said:
My problem is farrier to barefoot trimmer. I may come across as 'anti-barefoot' but it is a certain trimmers who have given me a biaest opinion. Why don't you try shoes front, barefoot behind. Our cob mare suits this very well, though is very footsore compleatly barefoot but is fine without backshoes. My TB gets very sore though, and I have been told that it takes 18 months to fully adjust, but since most work he does is roadwork it just doesn't suit. Also after 4 WEEKS he has worn he is metal shoes compleatly due to the amount of roadowork he does, so he just couldn't do it without shoes.
There is a reason to shoe horses (i.e if they do a lot of work on the roads etc) but if you don't do much roadwork etc then most horses can get away with being unshod (by a proper farrier).
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Roadwork is no reason to shoe horses, mine does lots of roadwork every day and I still have to have growth trimmed. I don't want to get into 'mine does more than yours', trust me I do lots of roadwork.

Totally disagree with this idea that horses stood about as field ornaments are ok to go bare foot, thats not what its about.

What on earth is a 'proper' farrier, or what is a farrier thats not 'proper.' Lol.
 
I competed my old pony in everything, barefoot.
My 3 year old is, and so long as he's with me, will be staying barefoot.
Kao's going to be competing *hopefully* decent jumping, dressage and eventing and will be staying barefoot for anything I do.
 
If it helps the OP, my chap is transitioning quite well. He had white feet which the farrier AND vet said would be the worst type of feet to go barefoot with and he had a boxy foot so could possibly never ever go without shoes... after that he went lame with nailbind and tripped on thin air for the thousandth time.....I called the nearest EP to me who came and we changed his diet as it turned out he was lacking in calcium and I was killing him with Formula4Feet (He's a laminitic) vet tested high liver enzymes.

So, off I popped to feed store and got alfa-a lite and speedibeet. He had it twice a day for a month, now only every so often.

So, a lami-prone, white feet, no shoes and he's out on grass 24/7 since July. I still remember restricting him to 4 hours turnout last spring. (I may still do this next year, see how it goes)

He's been barefoot for 3 and half months now. He had that time off and two weeks ago was brought back into work. He can walk on tarmac sound and on gravel he's still a bit 'oops, a stone' but it will take more than 3 months to get a decent sole back after 7 years of shoes.

Anyway, now he is bf, I understand how shoes can make laminitis attacks worse as the shoes only support the hoof wall and the sole can then just tear away from the wall and sink. Which is why you're asked to put them on deep beds. It would be better just to take the shoes off.

Anyway, recommended reading: Pete Ramey, EPA UK and keep following links on google.

Good Luck!!!!!!!
 
All three of my TB crosses came out of their shoes and didn't really miss a beat. I 'transitioned' them long before I had come across all this (excellent) new information on barefoot. The biggest issue I've had is from moving house - our hacking is now pretty much all on very stony forest roads, but they all have boots for when they need them and so we get on fine. Before that, it was all roads and bridle paths, and their feet were great on those.
I wasn't sure about the whole trimmer thing either, so I went out for a day with one to see what she did. I had a great day, learned a lot, and was very happy for her to come and trim mine after that. Before moving, I had a farrier who was very keen to help them be barefoot, but after moving I couldn't find a farrier who fitted the bill.
 
Bare in mind that when you go from shod to barefoot, your horse will be very footsore.
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When I took my old horse barefoot he had been shod for nearly 10 years and he never missed a beat, he was showing within a couple of weeks and jumping xc fences a month later. My current horse has been similar. This year she has competed BE, done some showing, done endurance pleasure rides up to 25km & in the past she has done 3 1/2 hour hound exercise with the bloodhounds, all barefoot. Both these horses had/have 4 white feet.

I'm not a barefoot evangelist, I try to be pragmatic and I have an 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' attitude so I wouldn't knock anyone who has happy & healthy shod horses and uses a competent, reliable and conscientious farrier. Going barefoot has been brilliant for me though :)
 
The WB is barefoot behind...never a footsore day to be had.
TB cross came to us barefoot, and needs shoeing all round. She simply cannot cope with the stoney ground out hacking.
Each is different.
My farrier recommended the WB go barefoot behind, and I would trust his judgement everytime. He is after all the qualified party!
 
OK, Master Farrier hat on....

Unshod (cos barefoot tends to be the cult term) is the best option for any horse IF IT SUITS THE HORSE, IT'S WORKLOAD, ENVIRONMENT AND OWNER....

BUT... in many cases it does not and some combination of shod, shod one end or shod during certain periods may be the best option for the horse...these can be used in conjunction with being unshod and the use of boots etc.

and again .... BUT!

It is never a reason to put a horse through unnecessary pain just for the sake of following a cult. If your horse can't cope with whats asked of it, put shoes on it if it's the best option.

(Yes, I know I keep calling barefoot a cult....and "Barefoot" is...Having horses unshod is good...falling for the propaganda that comes from minimally trained wackjobs is not!)
 
gekko said:
OK, Master Farrier hat on....

Unshod (cos barefoot tends to be the cult term) is the best option for any horse IF IT SUITS THE HORSE, IT'S WORKLOAD, ENVIRONMENT AND OWNER....

BUT... in many cases it does not and some combination of shod, shod one end or shod during certain periods may be the best option for the horse...these can be used in conjunction with being unshod and the use of boots etc.

and again .... BUT!

It is never a reason to put a horse through unnecessary pain just for the sake of following a cult. If your horse can't cope with whats asked of it, put shoes on it if it's the best option.

(Yes, I know I keep calling barefoot a cult....and "Barefoot" is...Having horses unshod is good...falling for the propaganda that comes from minimally trained wackjobs is not!)
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Most sensible thing I've read in a long time - refreshing!

None of our 13 are shod but none are working at the moment, we have one that will need fronts on and one that will need to be shod all round before they work at all, let alone on roads. They are coping happily in the field without but none of the others will ever need shoes! Traditionally ponies were mainly unshod and didn't need shoes regardless of the work they did, including the riding school ponies I worked with. There was the odd exception who did need either fronts or all 4 shod. I agree that 'barefoot' has become a fashion as opposed to unshod and suspect that many horses are suffering because they are being taken through a transition that is simply not suitable for them. If the horse can go unshod then brilliant but if not then let it have it's shoes without suffering for months on end before 'giving in' and putting them back on anyway.
 
If horses were not shod in the first place, there wouldn't be a transitioning period.


Cult seems to be the latest word for.'This is something getting really popular, which I don't agree with, or it will harm my buisiness.'
 
It's true, IMO there are some tubthumping barefoot evangelists out there who do alienate people & give the term 'barefoot' a bad name. It annoys me when people tar us barefoot peeps all with the same brush though - it's just as closed-minded and negative as being in a cult in it's way.
 
Our current two are unshoed. Stinky, my gypsy cob has never had shoes, very tough feet and is able to do all I want - hack, jump, showing etc without slipping or being sore. Farra our clydesdale did have shoes when we got her as a four year old, though she had only been shoed about eighteen months and I immediately removed them. She did hacking on grass for the first few months, she did not show any signs of being sore and was fine walking down the lane to the field and is now also with great feet and again does everything.

They are fed on just pure fibre products, I feed black sunflower seeds which are good for hard feet. In summer I do use Kevin Bacon to stop them getting too dry and have a wet area by the water tubs so they get moisture to them. In winter, they are not in mud all the time so they feet don't get water logged. They are trimmed by my farrier every seven to nine weeks depending on how quick they are growing.

When we took our old clydie at eighteen from shoes to unshoed, he did need a set the first year for three months in summer, the second year, just fronts and then was never to wear shoes again. He also stopped having thrush and hemorraging when shoes came off. He was not sore, just had his feet break up a bit at first in the dry months, hence putting on shoes for a short period.

My first TB needed shoes on when in medium work, my second TB even when out of work in the field had to have fronts on, her daughter who was TB/Hann was fine in work with fronts and able to be in the field and when in light work was fine to go unshoed. I only put shoes on the back later as she needed studs to stop her slipping.

When I have taken shoes off to start, I try to do it at this time of year when the ground is a bit softer and touch wood this has meant they have not been footsore, but maybe I have been lucky. If they need shoes, I will have them put on as I their wellbeing is the most important thing.
 
No, cult is the word for excluding all common sense and and rational discussion for the sake of following one particular path on the basis of little knowledge to the exclusion of everything else....

You will note my support for leaving horses unshod when suitable, but you will NEVER hear the cultist type barefooters EVER suggest that shoes are better in some instances. THAT is the big difference and what gets up noses! That and the same crap that always gets rolled into the mix
"you just don't like barefooters cos you make money out of shoes"
"shoes are cruel"
"shoes are damaging"
and my favourite "I've done a short course so I know more than you Master Craftsmen with 30+ years of experience"
 
gekko said:
and my favourite "I've done a short course so I know more than you Master Craftsmen with 30+ years of experience"
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This gets my goat too. A have seen several horses lamed by a barefoot trimmer who did a 2 WEEK course in the America.
The pony which was lame is now sound, and still unshod, just trimmed by a qualified farrier.
Thats what comment earlier about 'proper' farriers was about.
I think common sense applies people. Every horse is different etc
 
AndySpooner said:
If horses were not shod in the first place, there wouldn't be a transitioning period.


Cult seems to be the latest word for.'This is something getting really popular, which I don't agree with, or it will harm my buisiness.'
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In reality horses have been shod traditionally for many years if they were work horses, which the bulk of horses in this country were, ponies tended not to be (unless they were 'working' in the pulling a cart sense), shoeing has been used historically to protect the horses foot. The changeover to unshod for so many horses can only be a good thing for those that it suits. I used a highly recommended 'barefoot trimmer' for my ponies originally because I had horrible memories of what the farriers were like when I was young, battering horses because they moved a foot. I made it very clear to the trimmer why I had chosen that route yet she also hit them with the rasp for 'playing up' and when she almost blinded my youngster by hitting him in the eye with a knotted rope (in a so called NH move) I found myself a farrier. I don't have anything against people having their horses unshod (I have 13 after all!) but I do think that some do bang on about it and think it can cure all ailments when some horses just are not suited to not have shoes on - whether that is because they were ever shod in the first place, or just because it is how their feet are and if wild would have been eaten, I don't know, but it is how they are now. I can see the day coming where trimmers have to train under a Master Farrier before being allowed to practice which will then level the playing field for both sides. 'Barefoot trimming' has been very popular for over a decade rather than is becoming popular and there is plenty of room for both that, and shoeing, to operate side by side. I will never use a 'trimmer' again and will stick to a farrier but I do think that many farriers need to up their game, they have to give their clients the trim they want (and they are fully qualified in this but tend to stick to 'pasture trims') depending on the needs and work load of the horse and perhaps this ought to be part of their CPD as some seem to be unaware of the difference, if they did this they would push many of the trimmers out of work as that is why people allow unqualified trimmers to treat their horses.
 
gekko said:
"shoes are damaging"
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I am definitely a cult member then, because I believe shoes ARE damaging. How can they not be - nailing a solid metal structure onto a deformable, living structure?

Doesn't mean they should never be used, but only where absolutely necessary, and for short periods. For the vast majority of horses, the array of modern boots and pads that are now available would support work without shoes, often better than shoes can.
 
tallyho! said:
I called the nearest EP to me who came and we changed his diet as it turned out he was lacking in calcium and I was killing him with Formula4Feet (He's a laminitic) vet tested high liver enzymes.
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How did you know he was lacking in calcium?
How were you killing him with F4F?

So, off I popped to feed store and got alfa-a lite and speedibeet. He had it twice a day for a month, now only every so often.
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Why do you feed this every so often rather than everyday?

Im intrigued :)
 
sorry haven't had time to read all other replies but can tell you about my experience of barefoot.
My horse is 6yr wb and goes without shoes when I first took shoes off he was fine just slightly footy on very stony ground. He has no problems barefoot, I did put front shoes on in July as I thought he was finding it difficult out hacking on hard ground but I now put that down to a splint forming. The only time he went proper foot sore was when his feet had been cut back for shoes, shod, pulled one off the next day and I had them taken off completely again.
In a way I prefer it as you know what's going on with the foot. e.g. shoes not constraining or hiding symptoms. However a friend of mine who's horse has very flat feet tried it and the horse was finding it so hard it wasn't worth it and he is shod all round.
That being said I am sure most horses are fine. Give it a go.
 
Unfortunately not every farrier does a proper job. Whether it's lack of knowledge, lack of ability, being too busy to do a decent job or what I don't know, but the truth is that there are some qualified farriers out there who do a crap job and ultimately have a detrimental effect on the soundness of their customers' horses. Lack of decent farriers was the reason why I, and several other people I know, took our horses barefoot. The hostility some farriers have about barefoot people is to some extent understandable particularly if there is an impact on their livelihoods, but certainly in the cases of two farriers in particular who messed up my old horse's feet - all I can say is tough, you deserve it, if you'd done a proper job in the first place I would still be lining your pockets today.
 
The damage cause by a shoe can be minimised.....and they CAN prevent much more serious damage...so the "sum total" of damage can be less than no shoes...

It's the blanket statements without any justification or aknowledgement that it's not always the case that is the problem. Boots are not always the solution and are only one part of hoof care..not a cure all. Shoes (which have also evolved) can be another valuable part.

Your description of "solid metal structure" just isn't correct and shows a level of ignorance or deceit too.... Shoes can be made flexible and of a variety of materials ...not all metal, not all solid...and those things cross over too...I can make a flex shoe of metal or use a rigid composite...
 
I have to say I'm not an 'all for barefoot' convert. Some it suits, some it doesn't.

My native mare never had shoes on in her life with me, and we did xc/sj/hacking everyday/every terrain etc.
New loan home her being barefoot didn't suit her, whether it be change of diet or climate...but she now has fronts on with them and is fine.

My TB lad had fronts when I got him, I then automatically wanted a full set on him, and now, after a winter of pulled shoes, shoe-related injuries and a summer of the dry hard ground cracking them senseless - I bit the bullet and stripped him of them.
Was a bit worried first couple of weeks with him being footy on stones...but now, 3months on, he's doing everything he did before still. Makes me wonder why I thought he needed shoes in the first place! His feet have changed shape, he's not flat footed/contracted heeled/or dishy/flared feet. And his paces and ridden work have improved too?!

Just to show the thing's we've been doing even in just 3 months...

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._468800161752_708806752_6206714_5096761_n.jpg
He had his shoes removed about 1-2 weeks before this.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._482661701752_708806752_6528512_1133133_n.jpg
2months on

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._477084871752_708806752_6411613_3991884_n.jpg
about 4 weeks.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._477084721752_708806752_6411603_5274440_n.jpg
4weeks again.
 
I think some people are turning this thread into an argument, Shod or Un-shod it doesnt matter as long as you as an Owner make sure the horses welfare comes before anything.

I have just taken my WB barefoot 2 weeks ago, im far from a cult member lol:p.
But i did a lot of research & my horse was far from happy in the Eggbar shoes he was in. He was in them for a reason as he has damaged his Impar ligament, but unfortuntely the Eggbars where making things a lot worse.
With advice from my Vets & farrier we have taken him Barefoot the horse is now much more comfortable & only was slightly sensitive on his feet for 3 days. This was mainly due to the fact his soles had gone a bit soft from the Equipak that had been used by the remidial farrier at the Vet hospital.

I have now 3 Barefoot horse & 1 horse shod in front only. I will not remove the shod horses shoes as he is happy & going well. He also has multiple problems & is a OAP so therefore we have him happy / comfortable & im not going to change it.
All my horses are seen to by a Farrier & will continue on that path.

I recently spoke to a Barefoot trimmer & i was most un-impressed put it this way i would not let her near my horses hooves.
 
I'm sorry OP, I know this isn't really to do with your original post, but I have to respond:

gekko said:
The damage cause by a shoe can be minimised.....and they CAN prevent much more serious damage...so the "sum total" of damage can be less than no shoes...

It's the blanket statements without any justification or aknowledgement that it's not always the case that is the problem. Boots are not always the solution and are only one part of hoof care..not a cure all. Shoes (which have also evolved) can be another valuable part.

Your description of "solid metal structure" just isn't correct and shows a level of ignorance or deceit too.... Shoes can be made flexible and of a variety of materials ...not all metal, not all solid...and those things cross over too...I can make a flex shoe of metal or use a rigid composite...
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I'm sorry, but since when were most horses shod with a structure that wasn't solid???????
And please at least read my post properly before you call me 'ignorant and deceitful'. You say yourself 'the damage can be minimised'. If there was no damage, it wouldn't need to be minimised........
 
teddyt said:
How did you know he was lacking in calcium?
How were you killing him with F4F?

Why do you feed this every so often rather than everyday?
Im intrigued :)
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Hi teddyt, the calcium deficiency was evident in the red 'bruises' in random places on the hoof wall. Although I'm being told this, I'm no expert.

He was also bloated (not a worming issue). If you see my original text I said I had a test done by vet LFT & bloods and he was sickly and the only thing I could put it down to was f4f, that's all he got with carrots. And carrots or beta-carotene inhibits calcium absorbtion in the gut. How wierd!

F4F has 'optimal' doses of pretty much everything a horse needs but unless you know what concentrations are in hay and grass you could I have been overdosing? Better to stop.

He WAS fed everyday on alfa & beet for a month or so, but he's out 24/7 just coming back into work so doesn't need it twice a day so has it as a treat after a lunge or longrein session and in addition, the farmer analyses his grass annually after the last cut of hay for his beef stock and it seems the goodness content is satisfactory. Grass apparently has plenty of calcium in it! So, untill we do more work, he's happier than he's ever been just hanging out with his mates and is looking better than he was 6 months ago and he now has a normal looking belly.
 
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