Barefoot: what is going wrong with these feet?

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MissCandy

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4 year old warmblood
Diet: hay/grass. No hard feed. Access to salt lick
Exercise: 3/4 times per week. Usually 2 30 minute schooling, 2 40-60 minute hacking
Sound on a surface. Boots used for hacking.

Left front:
http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx5/DexterDevan/imagejpg3_zpsf0b833b0.jpg


http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx5/DexterDevan/imagejpg5_zpsced2bbce.jpg

http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx5/DexterDevan/imagejpg6_zps1189e30c.jpg

Right front:
http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx5/DexterDevan/imagejpg1_zps8b5e6190.jpg

http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx5/DexterDevan/imagejpg5_zpsced2bbce.jpg

http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx5/DexterDevan/imagejpg4_zps1cd94cbc.jpg

Any opinions welcome!

ETA: up until approx 6 weeks ago he was out almost 24/7. For the last 6 weeks he has been in during the day and out at night. He is currently overweight, I'd say condition score 3.5-4/5

ETA again!: he is due a trim next week so this is 5 weeks post trim.
 
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HGA-12 said:
Well just about to go out but this one looks quite flared on the inside and a diet change somewhere along the line>http://s736.photobucket.com/user/DexterDevan/media/imagejpg3_zpsf0b833b0.jpg.html

some also look underun and maybe a bit of bacteria near the white line in one like my boy has infection and has to have engemycine sprayed on
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Thanks. It is the flare I am most concerned about. How far back do you think this happened? I have been concerned enough to raise it on his last 2 trims which would take us back almost 18 weeks.

He did have an abscess in his right hind about a month ago and I have been spraying all 4 feet with Sole Cleanse form Red Horse Products 2/3 times a week since then.
 
Is he sound on the road, stones etc? they look to me as if they need to do more to condition them, could he hack without the boots? the frogs could have a little thrush as they have a rather deep central sulcus, the white line is stretched and there is an obvious flare to suggest something may be going on higher up which is causing him to compensate, it may be that he is overweight that causes him to grow unevenly, the event lines are wavy but I have no idea what that suggests, probably that the flare is long term.
 
be positive said:
Is he sound on the road, stones etc? they look to me as if they need to do more to condition them, could he hack without the boots? the frogs could have a little thrush as they have a rather deep central sulcus, the white line is stretched and there is an obvious flare to suggest something may be going on higher up which is causing him to compensate, it may be that he is overweight that causes him to grow unevenly, the event lines are wavy but I have no idea what that suggests, probably that the flare is long term.
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He is sound on roads, but not stones. We have a really stoney track from the yard to any hacking which would be less of a problem later on as we wouldn't need to be on this track for long to get to longer hacks but unfortunately it makes up the majority of the shorter hacks which is what we are limited to for now due to fitness/time/education.

I am worried that it is something higher up (that I can't see) causing the problem as I'm thinking it won't be as easy to put right as management issues, unless it is his weight which we are working on anyway now that his work levels have increased.

The boots are a recent addition - last month or so when he was really starting to struggle on the stones and it was boots or shoes.
 
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MC - my thoughts have already been covered, but I thought that I'd pick up on this -

Camilla's Aunty Em said:
Anyone else think they have been cut back too hard?
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No, they haven't been cut back too hard. If you look at the sole shots, eg http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx5/DexterDevan/imagejpg5_zpsced2bbce.jpg, you can see that there is horn growth all the way around the edge that will be trimmed off during the nest trim.

Remember that shod hooves often look longer than BF ones. :)
 
Flare is usually a sign of stress eg some underlying or past lameness.
I would get a qualified farrier to give his/her advise. Has the horse always been barefoot? Is there a particular reason it doesn't use shoes ie did it had problems with feet?
 
oldjumper said:
Flare is usually a sign of stress eg some underlying or past lameness.
I would get a qualified farrier to give his/her advise. Has the horse always been barefoot? Is there a particular reason it doesn't use shoes ie did it had problems with feet?
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My trimmer believes it is simply how he is waring his feet. He has never been lame other than the abscess and footsore over stones. No reason why he doesn't or can't wear shoes. He is only 4 which is why shoes haven't been in the equation. I would prefer to keep him barefoot however.
 
RE the flare, it happens for many reasons. For example, one of mine grew flare as the result of an abscess. The abscess was on the inside side of the hoof, so the horse naturally stood with more weight on the outside. This meant that the outside horn grew slower and the inside became flared. However once the flare was trimmed off (the abscess was solved), the flare didn't return because the horse was now standing evenly again.

If the flare is removed and always returns, there is a school of thought that says that you should leave it.

The best thing to do, is to ask your hoof care professional as they can see the whole horse and watch him move.

ETA - just seen your new post. Has the trimmer explained why they think that he wears his hooves unevenly? EG, is the leg slightly wonky?
 
Is your 'trimmer' a registered farrier? If not, I should get some professional advice - farriers can also just trim. It's not worth risking a young horse's feet.
 
I'd be looking at the diet. I know I keep saying it, but its vital for barefoot feet and seems to be even more important if they dont have straight forward feet.

I'd start feeding a handful of something like fast fibre, a mineral balancer like prohoof, salt, linseed and mag ox/chloride
 
There are good and bad farriers and trimmers out there. Contrary to popular belief, there are trimming causes that last far more than a weekend and you affiliate with the organisation when you qualify and they regulate their members checking that they are up to standard. If you live in an area with substandard farriers (and they do sadly exist), but with an excellent trimmer, using the trimmer is best if your horse is unshod/bf.
 
Faracat said:
RE the flare, it happens for many reasons. For example, one of mine grew flare as the result of an abscess. The abscess was on the inside side of the hoof, so the horse naturally stood with more weight on the outside. This meant that the outside horn grew slower and the inside became flared. However once the flare was trimmed off (the abscess was solved), the flare didn't return because the horse was now standing evenly again.

If the flare is removed and always returns, there is a school of thought that says that you should leave it.

The best thing to do, is to ask your hoof care professional as they can see the whole horse and watch him move.

ETA - just seen your new post. Has the trimmer explained why they think that he wears his hooves unevenly? EG, is the leg slightly wonky?
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As far as I can see, he doesn't have wonky legs and he's seen quite often by others (including instructor/vet/trimmer) who have never mentioned any wonkiness. It worries me as it's quite a new thing, even if it's been developing over the last 6 months, it coincides with his work levels increasing.

oldjumper said:
Is your 'trimmer' a registered farrier? If not, I should get some professional advice - farriers can also just trim. It's not worth risking a young horse's feet.
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She isn't a registered farrier no but she is qualified, comes highly recommended and has many many hard working barefoot horses on her books. I don't have concerns about her. I have tried many farriers in my area over the years and it's hard to find a good one. Having said that, I certainly haven't ruled out getting a second opinion, it's just trying to get one from someone I can trust.

FrankieCob said:
I'd be looking at the diet. I know I keep saying it, but its vital for barefoot feet and seems to be even more important if they dont have straight forward feet.

I'd start feeding a handful of something like fast fibre, a mineral balancer like prohoof, salt, linseed and mag ox/chloride
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I've tried various supplements, although to be fair, not long enough to see any results as he's such a fussy eater. I've just ordered a balancer from global herbs so hoping he takes to that!
 
Discuss your concerns with your trimmer but if you're looking for something to try changing next I'd look at his diet. As he currently receives no supplementation then I'd try him on something simple like unmolassed sugarbeet or equivalent (of which there are many!), a good quality hoof targeted balancer and some magnesium oxide (Discuss with your trimmer what they reccomend as amounts for his weight, they may also have other suggestions) and leave him on it for a good month or so. As an aside I'm not as experienced at looking at / for these things as some on here (some of who have actual qualifications, which I don't!) but I'd say there's a slight angle change in the new hoof growing in that would suggest the restriction of his grazing time is having some of the desired effect
 
Have a good look at rockley farm.
The question I would ask, is why do so many people put shoes on their horses?
I have held back, hoping someone more experienced would comment.
My advice is feed 40-50gms minerals every day including 6-10gms MgO .. pro earth / forageplus for example
A tablespoon of salt every day
50gms micronised linseed.
Aim for self trimming by hacking on tarmac for example, if he is footy on stones at first, try walking in hand on this, then mounting on roads. Regular exercise is an important part of the barefoot regime as is diet, trimming is the third component, and self trimming is the target.
Aim for a level hairline along the coronet band. Flair is often a natural response by the horse to balance, if the conformation is imperfect, this will be reflected in the feet. See Rockley Farm .
 
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Just because the leg doesn't look wonky, doesn't mean it isn't inside, remember.

My take on flare is that it is either there to help a wonkyness (good flare) or in response to something else like bad diet or an abscess growing out. Etc (bad flare). A slow mo vid of your horse moving might provide some enlightenment.

I may get slapped down for this but if in doubt with mine I have removed the flare and then watched to see if it has grown back/ how sound the horse is or isn't without it and then made my decisions from there.
 
I would go with the trimmer's opinion.

The fact that the flare is evident on the inside of both front feet implies to me that it is a reflection of how he is carrying himself, hence why it has become more obvious since his workload increased. It doesn't have to mean he is 'wonky', it's just his way of going which may well sort itself out as his weight and fitness improves.
The feet themselves don't look bad, but a good mineral balancer would be a bonus.
 
Thanks all, I was expecting everyone to say they are awful and need drastic action so the fact I haven't had those comments is promising...I think!

So, supplement, more work on Tarmac and continuing getting the weight off should all have a positive affect on his feet?
 
Due to chronically slow "broadband" speed out here I only had the patience to open the first picture. But my youngster grew a similar flare in one hoof about 18 months ago; we think he tweaked his back or stifle being a muppet in the field as he was also a little stiff. It grew out though and has never returned.

As others have said, sort out a supplement (Pro Hoof or Balance are good), more work on tarmac and reduce weight. Swap grass for hay if you can.
 
I don't want to scare you, but my horse's (barefoot) feet started looking like this this year, and he eventually went lame and it turned out that low level navicular had been making him walk funny, basically, causing the uneven hoof distribution. Obviously many people say that these sorts of hoof changes can be managed barefoot perfectly well, so I think what i would do is to speak to your farrier, and possibly another few farriers too, to see if they think it's worth looking at something remedial that helps balance them up a bit.
 
Morgan123 said:
I don't want to scare you, but my horse's (barefoot) feet started looking like this this year, and he eventually went lame and it turned out that low level navicular had been making him walk funny, basically, causing the uneven hoof distribution. Obviously many people say that these sorts of hoof changes can be managed barefoot perfectly well, so I think what i would do is to speak to your farrier, and possibly another few farriers too, to see if they think it's worth looking at something remedial that helps balance them up a bit.
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Sorry, only just seen these recent replies. Thank you. That does scare me quite a bit though! How old was your horse and is he sound now? Still barefoot or in shoes?
 
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