Barefoot woes, or WTF UK Podiatrist.

ohmissbrittany

ohmissbrittany

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My horse and I finally arrived in the UK after some delays due to shipping fever which kept us in Holland for about 10 days extra. Of course, her feet needed attention so I called a trimmer someone from a barefoot group recommended... and then the trimmer did THIS - rasped all up her beautiful thick wall.... like what the hell man, I worked hard for that nice thick hard wall you're just thinning all the way to the coronary band! I used those event lines to measure things and monitor progress and they're now all gone. The feet are not very well balanced to the leg and I don't think the trimmer listened when I was trying to make it clear I was uncomfortable with how the trimmer did it. My horse has also been quite sore ever since, and she's NEVER been sore after a trim in the past year that my US trimmer (who studied under Pete Ramey) did her. And the US trimmer never rapsed more than about 1/3 of a way up the wall. These were her feet before we left - happy sound horse. I feel so awful.

Is it just differences of opinion on theory and application? Am I being crazy? I was always taught that flare is from ground-reactive forces unless the sole/wall junction also bulges- so filing all the way up the wall does nothing helpful, it just removes all the periople and keratinized hoof.

Apparently I didn't realize there are trim types outside of Strasser and Ramey, but I'm definitely looking for other options. I have one in mind but welcome any other recommendations in the Oswestry/Gobowen area.
 
Just get a half decent farrier! most of them are happy with barefoot trims and will have far more experience and knowledge than most barefoot trimmers who legally require no qualifications to practice.
 
Which group recommended the trimmer and what was the quals? I've seen one do this and was completely baffled by the high rasping which never helps anything. I'd chat to a few people until you find one you are happy with. Trimmers are like farriers, good and bad of both ;). Sorry I don't know your area.
 
I used to stand over my farriers, and they did not rasp more than necessary [I was always asking questions], no idea who you used, but that is a disgrace.
Get a tripod and a rasp and do it yourself every 2 weeks, , with walking on coarse tarmac roads for 20 mind per day, it will be fine.
 
ester said:
Which group recommended the trimmer and what was the quals?
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Just the big "barefoot horse owners UK" board on FB. The trimmer was a podiatrist who talked a lot about KC Lapierre.... I feel like he might be newly minted with little experience. And I'm not personally comfortable with Lapierre's work because I see a lot of hoof casting and razor shoes on his trimmed horses.... if you trimmed the horse truly sound you shouldn't need all that s***.

But no wonder people here have such a hard time justifying barefoot horses when the "podiatrists" work I've seen has all looked like enthusiastic butchery compared to what I'm used to. When you can't trot a horse off sound after a trim (or after months of trims), of course people are going to talk about it. As well they should, because again, my horse has NEVER been sore after a trim before. :rolleyes3: Oh well, Dorian Lloyd does really good farrier work, and I'm interested in seeing how he trims anyway.
 
My experience is mostly with a UKNCHP trained trimmer (rockley less is more approach ;)), even though I was new to it - and my farrier had suggested I get someone else as he didn't have experience with rehab barefoot- I did ask quite a lot of questions before anyone came and a long chat before any trimming occurred, I would probably be even worse now but ended up doing him myself as he isn't particularly tricky and is better with little and often.
 
Sadly as with everything there are good and bad - I don't think it matters if you have a trimmer or a farrier as long as they do a good job - sadly round here the farriers are not good with unshod feet but there are a couple of fabulous trimmers. Just as not all farriers are equal, not all trimmers are equal, live and learn and try the next one - and watch like a hawk to stop them if they are doing something you don't like, like rasping the wall.
 
ohmissbrittany said:
Just the big "barefoot horse owners UK" board on FB. The trimmer was a podiatrist who talked a lot about KC Lapierre.... I feel like he might be newly minted with little experience. And I'm not personally comfortable with Lapierre's work because I see a lot of hoof casting and razor shoes on his trimmed horses.... if you trimmed the horse truly sound you shouldn't need all that s***.

But no wonder people here have such a hard time justifying barefoot horses when the "podiatrists" work I've seen has all looked like enthusiastic butchery compared to what I'm used to. When you can't trot a horse off sound after a trim (or after months of trims), of course people are going to talk about it. As well they should, because again, my horse has NEVER been sore after a trim before. :rolleyes3: Oh well, Dorian Lloyd does really good farrier work, and I'm interested in seeing how he trims anyway.
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oh dear. KC is not new. His first course in the UK was 2002. He has trained a lot of the UK trimmers. I find the trim too extreme. I found the barefoot FB group were total zealots not open to any opinion other than their own. Any disagreement with them and you were removed. (as I was!!)

I trim my own horses and probably very much in the way your ramey trimmer did. I never go more than half inch up the walls and preferably not even that. They are never sore after a trim.

Whilst there are some very good trimmers here there are also some who IMHO take too much off. I would suggest you find a few trimmers/barefoot farriers and take up references and check you like their methods. OTOH you could do what many of us do over here which is do your own. At least that way you will not have these problems.
I'm not sure if it helps but Ramey is doing a couple of courses in the UK in the next couple of months. Maybe you could find someone good there or perhaps go yourself and then trim yourself. Just a suggestion.

You could also ask on Phoenix. I am sure there will be people in your area and at least you willl know who to avoid
 
I use a good DAEP who is KC trained and he has never done that, only ever takes a little flare off & then only if needed but has never rasped like that - have to say tho that after 3 years of my not quite right horse being barefoot, I am going to have to shoe him to discount footiness for the next vet work up. Whilst I am gutted because he has beautiful feet, it would be so nice if all his problems disappeared from doing so. You never know!

Good luck, if you say what area you are in you may get a better recommendation.
 
conniegirl said:
Just get a half decent farrier! most of them are happy with barefoot trims and will have far more experience and knowledge than most barefoot trimmers who legally requiire no qualifications to practice.
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Unfortunately this is not true. The UK farrier syllabus does not include trimming hard working barefoot horses. Just like trimmers, some farriers are good with barefoot horses and some are not, as you have found out. Can you ride him on some roads and get him trimming for himself?
 
I am afraid I did not think much of a KC trained trimmer I used either. I used to do the horse myself but had to stop when my back got too bad. I lost patience with a trimmer who spent 45 minutes talking and 15 minutes trimming and never trimmed well enough to keep my horse as sound as I could with my limited knowledge. I now use a local farrier who has experience of working horses barefoot and he does a great job. A lot of horses and ponies are worked barefoot around the New Forest so we are probably lucky with our farriers.
 
This might help: http://www.barefoothorse.info/barefoot-trimmer-association/

I am afraid, as has been said, the members of the FB page you mention are, to a large extent, dreadful. Every week someone on there, whose horse's leg is hanging off, will ask about natural painkillers because they don't want bute (aka known as 'I don't have insurance or enough money to call the vet). There are a couple of other groups less evangelical on FB - Barefoot for working horses; Barefoot Horse Info. http://phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org/ is very good and helpful.

Having tried, at length, and failed dismally to get an appointment with the only decent barefoot trimmer in my area, I too have bought a rasp and read the books. We're still in transition so I take her on the roads for 45 minutes 3 times per week, and the other three times per week I take her round a track that involves tarmac roads, gravel and shale roads, stony tracks and fairly rutted paths. It seems to keep her feet in trim.
 
ycbm said:
Unfortunately this is not true. The UK farrier syllabus does not include trimming hard working barefoot horses. Just like trimmers, some farriers are good with barefoot horses and some are not, as you have found out. Can you ride him on some roads and get him trimming for himself?
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If a couple of people on this thread can read a book, speak to their trimmers and then start rasping themselves, a qualified farrier can tri m? My lad only ever had one set of fronts with me in nearly ten years, the test of the time he was unshod and trimmed by my farrier. The farrier trimmed the foot, rolled the edge and rasped maybe 1/2" up the wall, only time the horse went footy is when I turned him out a little too long on the summer paddock at the start of spring. Otherwise he was totally sound.
 
Mince Pie said:
If a couple of people on this thread can read a book, speak to their trimmers and then start rasping themselves, a qualified farrier can tri m? My lad only ever had one set of fronts with me in nearly ten years, the test of the time he was unshod and trimmed by my farrier. The farrier trimmed the foot, rolled the edge and rasped maybe 1/2" up the wall, only time the horse went footy is when I turned him out a little too long on the summer paddock at the start of spring. Otherwise he was totally sound.
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You'd think so, wouldn't you? Unfortunately, many of them are addicted to cutting large pieces of frog off and trimming away sole callous to 'balance' the foot.

There are a lot of good ones too, who have either gone out of their way to learn, or are being trained by a master who has the experience.

In general, though, you still won't get the diet and transition advice that you'll get from a good barefoot trimmer. The trick is finding a good one, be it a farrier or a non farrier.
 
The only fb barefoot group I have ventured on is Lucy Priory's everyone else has put me off the rest, I don't think I am evangelical enough for them :p. I've had enough disagreements with a local trimmer group who I see driving round all the time who insist that even if you horse was old, metabolic, foot sore and likely to keel over soon that it is definitely better without shoes :p and that there is absolutely no situation that is appropriate for wanting to immobilise the hoof wall.

I think the thing with farriers is that they aren't always great at considering a slightly different way of doing things and not always making things 'pretty' and then there are those with slight ego issues who definitely aren't going to take input from an owner who has been told stuff on the internet. It was actually our yard farrier who told me to get on and start doing him myself.
 
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