barefooters/diet gurus... chaff help

whisp&willow

whisp&willow

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hi guys,

bit of background... my 2 y o has been footy for about a year. she is fine on grass/soft surfaces, but footy on stony/un-level hard ground.

she was born very "floppy" in the pasterns, but strengthened and came up fine, and has her feet regularly seen to by a trusted and well respected farrier. if i am critical and honest i would say she is a bit long in the front pasterns.

she has very flat soles (fronts worse than hinds) as her mother does, although, she was never particularly footy, and i have just really taken notice off the fact that she does have ringed hooves... :(

I have decided that in a bid to try and get her feeling better on her feet that i am going to try and cut out molasses from her feeds. starting tomorrow she will be off sugarbeet and onto a mix of calm and condition, fast fibre and weightgain (all allen and page mollasses free range) she is a little underweight at the moment, so the weightgain is only for the time being.

i am wanting to change her chaff too, as she is on apple chaff just now (i was finishing off a bag that i bought for her mother, who coliced and now wont touch the stuff!) but not sure as to which chaff is the best with regards her new diet?

she is the only one who feels her feet, and they are on poor, rough grazing.

any thoughts or info/advice gratefully received.

vicki. x
 
I have stopped feeding chaff to mine, they get plenty of hay/ haylage, grass and the main feed is Fast Fibre with additions as required, chaff is not needed, in my view they are getting all the fibre they need. They do not eat too quickly and all did really well over the winter like this.
 
Pretty much anything from these guys (and delivery is usually free for orders of more than two bags). http://halleysfeeds.co.uk/

Generally, if diet seems to be affecting hooves, best to stick to the lowest sugar options and avoid alfalfa... I use their Timothy Hay chop but I believe they're bringing out a hay/straw chop too.
 
Tbh is she feels her feet when the others don't I'd be inclined to feed her as a metabolically challenged horse, so I'd probably avoid the allen & page combo.
Id go with speedi beet, micronised linseed (can feed a decent amount for weight gain) and a supplement eg.. Pro-earth pro hoof or forage plus balancer.
If you get no improvement after a few weeks then the grass is having an impact too so I'd then be restricting that.
The other thing to check is whether the farrier is paring away any sole or frog as that will make her sore too.
 
Mine just get Just Grass and speedibeet. If I need a bit of energy I will add some Green Gold. I never feed mix or molassed products. I also feed linseed, brewers yeast, seaweed and black sunflower seeds. I also have started to add a small amount of magnesium.

Our two have rock hard feet - I also use Kevin Bacon in the summer and their feet rarely chip and they are not footsore.
 
maggiesmum said:
Tbh is she feels her feet when the others don't I'd be inclined to feed her as a metabolically challenged horse, so I'd probably avoid the allen & page combo.
Id go with speedi beet, micronised linseed (can feed a decent amount for weight gain) and a supplement eg.. Pro-earth pro hoof or forage plus balancer.
If you get no improvement after a few weeks then the grass is having an impact too so I'd then be restricting that.
The other thing to check is whether the farrier is paring away any sole or frog as that will make her sore too.
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why would you avoid allen and page? they are barley and molasses free? there is no grass to speak of in her field, and her footyness has not changed over the last year.
 
Theresa_F said:
Mine just get Just Grass and speedibeet. If I need a bit of energy I will add some Green Gold. I never feed mix or molassed products. I also feed linseed, brewers yeast, seaweed and black sunflower seeds. I also have started to add a small amount of magnesium.

Our two have rock hard feet - I also use Kevin Bacon in the summer and their feet rarely chip and they are not footsore.
Click to expand...

Thanks Theresa. ;) i forgot about just grass. ;) i was considering the kevin bacon stuff, as last year her feet were getting soft due to all the rain and mud.

i think she could do with some energy... she is so laid back she is backwards! although i now wonder if its because she has sore tootsies?
 
whisp&willow said:
why would you avoid allen and page? they are barley and molasses free? there is no grass to speak of in her field, and her footyness has not changed over the last year.
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Your issue may be more complex than diet... it might be worth posting here: http://phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org/forum2.php and asking for suggestions. Pictures of feet are always useful ;)

I tend to feed the chop added to FastFibre (wonderful stuff, IMO) to slow down the horse who tends to bolt her feed. The one who doesn't just gets a bowl of fastfibre with micronised linseed and his supplements/vits/minerals.
 
I think of the FF as a form of chaff although A&P say to feed with chaff it is only bulking out the feed rather than adding anything they are not already getting. Dodson and Horrell do a molasses free chaff which would be worth a try, they do seem to love it and it has some pellets in it which makes it more interesting.
 
be positive said:
I think of the FF as a form of chaff although A&P say to feed with chaff it is only bulking out the feed rather than adding anything they are not already getting. Dodson and Horrell do a molasses free chaff which would be worth a try, they do seem to love it and it has some pellets in it which makes it more interesting.
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Is that the Safe & Sound by D&H? for lamanitic prone horses?
 
Forage. Fast Fibre. Mineral supplement (Pro Balance + is cheapest). If you need more weight without sugar then unmollased beet or even soya hulls/oil.
Chaff is nice to slow a feeder down but Fast Fibre is sloppy chaff anyway.
There are unbranded unmollased hay chaffs available if you really feel you need one.
The Calm and Condition is high in starch, so no good for a metabolic horse.
The mineral supplement, forage, sunlight and internal bacteria will be all your girl needs until she is in hard work.
 
Oberon said:
Forage. Fast Fibre. Mineral supplement (Pro Balance + is cheapest). If you need more weight without sugar then unmollased beet or even soya hulls/oil.
Chaff is nice to slow a feeder down but Fast Fibre is sloppy chaff anyway.
There are unbranded unmollased hay chaffs available if you really feel you need one.
The Calm and Condition is high in starch, so no good for a metabolic horse.
The mineral supplement, forage, sunlight and internal bacteria will be all your girl needs until she is in hard work.
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thanks oberon! i wasn't planning on feeding c+c originally, but there is a whole bin of it sitting in the feed room and i thought it would be ok due to no molasses. ;)

she does need to put on a few pounds- she is a good doer, but dropped a lot a couple of weeks ago, when two more ponies went in with them. she is looking better now, but still needs a bit more.

she isn't a fast eater, i just thought that she should have chaff as advised on the weight gain bag. fast fibre made an astonishing difference to my old mare.

so fast fibre, speedibeet and pro balance +? and cut out the speedi beet once she has gained a little and the grass comes up a bit?
 
You should really avoid mixes and mollasses. Both no good for feet due to sugar and starch content.

My boy has always been on a high fibre low starch and low sugar diet but has still had issues with footiness periodically. He is now rising 5 and I have had him since he was 16 months. Most recently I have had my forrage analysed which has thrown to light several imballances and caused a total review of his diet. He is now on Micronised linseed and fast fibre with a bespoke mineral supplement. I always fed a low sugar chaff in the past but now I don't bother. You might find that as well as changing some of your feedstuffs, supplementing a few minerals including magnesium, copper, zinc and some of the B vitamins including biotin may help. Micronised linseed would also be beneficial - especially for the weightgain. That said, I wouldn't worry about putting weight on a two year old. they will still be growing quite rapidly, and will look quite pathetic at times... instead I would focus on feeding a balanced diet.
 
CBFan said:
You should really avoid mixes and mollasses. Both no good for feet due to sugar and starch content.

My boy has always been on a high fibre low starch and low sugar diet but has still had issues with footiness periodically. He is now rising 5 and I have had him since he was 16 months. Most recently I have had my forrage analysed which has thrown to light several imballances and caused a total review of his diet. He is now on Micronised linseed and fast fibre with a bespoke mineral supplement. I always fed a low sugar chaff in the past but now I don't bother. You might find that as well as changing some of your feedstuffs, supplementing a few minerals including magnesium, copper, zinc and some of the B vitamins including biotin may help. Micronised linseed would also be beneficial - especially for the weightgain. That said, I wouldn't worry about putting weight on a two year old. they will still be growing quite rapidly, and will look quite pathetic at times... instead I would focus on feeding a balanced diet.
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thanks, i was worried about her weight, as she dropped a lot, and was not just a gangly youngster, but was thin. i am very carefull with her weight, as she has a tendency to pork out quickly! (native partbred on mothers side) i am happy with the improvement in her weight in the last couple of weeks once i started feeding, and only want her to gain a little covering over her ribs now. she was spiney, but now much better. almost perfect. (imo) :)

does the supplement that oberon suggested provide the vits/mins you suggest?
 
Oberon said:
*shudders* yes ;)

Less is more.

Otherwise see poor hooves and ulcers :p
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well her slowness infuriates me a little... (im used to having the whirlwind that nobody can keep up with... and i have visions of me on board giving it pony-club kicks to get her to move!) so poor hooves i dont want.

its already becoming a problem, as i cant do any leading/show prep anywhere other than on grass, and in the next couple of years wont be able to long rein etc as she is reluctant to move on the roads/tracks.
 
Weight loss, quiet demeanour......does she have any ulcers?

Once I started Obi on balanced minerals, his rider couldn't express how full of life he felt.

A fully healthy and nourished horse is a happy, active horse.
 
Oberon: where do you get the pro balance +. i googled it but just keep coming up with ebay...

she has been quiet since the day she was born! i know her affectionately as slug... the weight loss was down to another two horses going into their field. :(
 
Fair enough.

Mel Baker sells on Ebay as Progressive Earth. Mention my name and she'll send you a treat with your order ;)
 
Haven't read all of the replies but Badminton do a alfalfa & molasses-free chaff called 'Easy Rider'. About £8 a bag. It's quite new (ish) and if ur feed merchants don't already stock it, they should be able to order it in.
I hope u get her sorted soon :)
 
whisp&willow said:
I have decided that in a bid to try and get her feeling better on her feet that i am going to try and cut out molasses from her feeds. starting tomorrow she will be off sugarbeet and onto a mix of calm and condition, fast fibre and weightgain (all allen and page mollasses free range) she is a little underweight at the moment, so the weightgain is only for the time being.
Click to expand...

I used a mix of Fast Fibre and Calm & Condition with some linseed oil for my TB gelding when he was quite underweight so I'd be tempted not to bother with the other weight gain too... Particularly at this time of year when the forage should be adequate...

Calm & Condition doesn't exceed the 10% for carbs/sugars that appears to be the cut off point - but FF is far less and higher in fibre... I also changed to micronised linseed after advice on here... Once his weight was good, I dropped the C&C to FF only with some Honey Chop plain oat chaff to bulk it out a bit and stop him inhaling the bowl in 0.2 secs (he's a greedy boy who does struggle to maintain weight :rolleyes: )... There is nothing added to the oat chaff (molasses/sugars free etc) and it's suitable for two years +... Obviously all in conjunction with natural forage, adlib hay and worming...

TB's hooves were abysmal so (again after advice on here) I added the Pro Hoof supplement from eBay and changed to a farrier I felt more comfortable with... End result, TB is in good shape and is now unshod on his rears... He certainly doesn't have rock crunching feet and is in light work but he's not at all footy and will walk over gravelly ground without lifting his feet like a puppet...

:)
 
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