BARGY BU#GER! :(

Having read this thread and a few like it in the last while can somebody please explain to me why anyone would want to teach a horse to lead behind them. I do have a young horse that did pull or barge if she was in the mood and I must admit I did get some help from a P student (didnt want to say the word as even they are embarresed to utter it now) with a halter and it has been a godsend but the horse has still been taught to lead from the shoulder so if she even thinks of doing anything I can notice the subtle changes in her stature before it gets to explosion time.
PS just to say her moments were normally panic but she would use her size and would go over the top of you at that moment
 
LaurenBay said:
I don't think anyone has suggested to lead the Horse behind them? Very dangerous IMO
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I did, and no it isn't dangerous if the horse knows and respects your space. If you lead from in front that makes you.................a leader, and the horse knows it. If by dangerous you mean you will get run over if the horse spooks, well, no, you won't, because the horse will run around you if he knows your space is sacrosanct. And if you only lead from the side, how do you get through narrow spaces or load a reluctant loader? And who is leading whom most of the time?
I have led my horses from in front for over 40 years, brood mares, foals and young stock. I didn't always understand why but I always got sensible followers, and have never ever been trampled on. Go figure
 
JillA said:
IME a chifney is like a choke chain on a dog - if you are experienced enough to know how to use one sensitively and with good timing, you probably don't need to.
All the horses on my yard are taught to respect my space. I do use american rope halters all the time, with at least a 12ft line, and then do some training (this stuff doesn't just happen by itself lol).
Walk around, ideally in a school etc where there is no tempation like grass to dive for) with horse following, then from time to time turn round and stretch out both arms towards the horse like a barrier with the rope between your hands. If he is closer than that he has invaded your space so back him out of it. After about 4 or 5 times he will get the idea and stay respectfully behind you. If he comes upsides or infront, turn smartly away from him so he is behind you again, and do the space thing. No shouting or hitting, just persistence. It not only stops barging but it does teach them respect for you and your space.
Once you have that sorted, in the stable each and every time before you open the door back him up one step. Then go in - you will have your space around you he knows not to invade so he will stay back.
It needs doing a handful of times to ensure he has got it, and then now and again if he forgets, but it really does work a treat. You have to be 100% consistent in the space you have defined, it isn't easy to describe but he has to learn that area which he has to keep clear of. It worked here on a 20 year old who had never been taught anything like that and was a 17hh heavyweight hunter type, if he barged you just got out of his way!!.
Oh, and it came from Mark Rashid, who I have seen transform hyper bargy TBs to relaxed laid back horses in 10 minutes using this invading your space thing. If you can find someone local who know Marks work it would be a great idea to ask them to help.
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Sorry if I have taken this out of context but my understanding of what this means is the horse should be behind not alongside and as you say I find this very dangerous, that is what I am struggling to understand. The rest of it does make sense that they have to know their boundaries and consistancy is the key.
Sorry Op for hijacking your thread
 
Oh sorry that I missed that!

I lead mine from beside her and she is very respectful of my space (apart from one bad patch when we moved yards) yes there are certain situations where you lead in front (narrow spaces as you said) but when leading in a wide area then why risk them shooting forwards and knocking you over? You said that Horses that truly respect your space will spook around you? But a scared Horse is an unpredictable Horse, who might just jump forwards to bolt off forwards putting you in harms way. Standing at the Horses head, not only are you out of harms way, but you also have more control over the head.

I'm glad it's worked for you though :)
 
I would put a chain up across the door. Fix it so that it is about level with the base of his chest and let him barge into that. It makes them jump right back.

As for leading to the field I would use a chain across his nose. Fix, with a strong clip to the ring where the headpiece starts, run it down and through the ring of the noseband, across the nose and through the other noseband ring and then fix the rope to this.

When he gets strong use both hands and give a hard jerk. This should stop him dead in his tracks. Make him lead around and every now and then stop and make him go back by rattling the chain.

I have recently had two horses - with their owners, that did this charging off. I worked with both owners (who would admit that they hated taking their horses in and out of the field,) all it took was one simple lesson in how to use the chain. One horse has not charged off since and the other did coming in one evening to get to the mares in their field. The owner ran and fetched the chain, fixed it , took him back to his field, started over again and when he went to break free, one hard jerk and he stopped and has not done it since. Both horses had the chain on for a few days though it was not used.

In the stable make him stand to the back of the box when you are doing anything to him. If he moves make him go back to where he was originally standing. Do this with a finger to his chest and if he ignores that, use the pointy end of a hoof pick. No getting angry or upset, cool and calm. Let him know that you are prepared to make life uncomfortable for him.

Remember that the worse behaviour you allow is the best behaviour you can expect. Any training must be consistent and instant. You correct every little thing every time and you will have a mannered horse.

Many will decry this because poor horse might take offence and it might hurt him. Sorry but barging he might hurt you and anything I have suggested is not as bad as another horse in a superior herd position would do to him.
 
My mare used to be a bargy ******, I kept her on a yard then, and different people would turn her out, and one of the poor lads was only little (now a jockey) and she would drag him to the field shoving him in the hedge on the way, ... I got the Monty Roberts Dually halter, that did the trick, just that bit of pressure on her nose was enough, I remember turning up at the yard after getting him, and him thanking me as he turned her out that morning with no problems (this was 13 years ago) ... and I like the fact you can just use it was a normal headcollar, and just clip the lead to the pressure part as and when needed. .
 
My boy can be the same so I lead at all times in a chifney - safer for me and for him. He is very respectful of it so that I rarely have to "use" it as such.
 
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