Bargy horse, help please!

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Sarah1

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Morning all

Just wondered if you have any tips/ideas as to how I should deal with my gelding who has recently become very bargy in the stable? How can I make him more settled in there?
I had a few problems this winter with one of the other livery's shutting his grill & leaving it shut while she rode out & I think this has def. contributed to his feelings about being in his stable.
He almost trampled over the top of me yesterday twice then when I ignored him when he was nudging me he bit me! I took a good swing & walloped him & the git just glared at me - he didn't even flinch! His expression/attitude was very insolent!
He had one on him yesterday granted & he's not usually a biter but I need to nip this barging in the bud, quickly!
BTW, there was another horse in another stable - he wasn't alone.

Thanks
 
This is dangerous and I wont stand for it. I may not be popular but I find a decent whack across the chest with a schooling whip or a piece of blue pipe is much more effective than a slap from the hand.

The horse must respect your space especially in a doorway, its no fun getting mashed against the frame if something decides its coming out uninvited.
 
When you say bargy, is he like this just in the stable or to lead about in general (loading/fetching through gates/turning out etc).
What do you do if he does pull you? are you controlling him with a head collar, bit? does he know how to back away from you when asked?

Does he try and push his way out as soon as you unlock the bolt on his stable door? do you think its boredom/impatience or just down right bolchness? Have you tried bobbing a haynet in to focus him on something else but you?

He needs to learn to respect your space, you need to be totally consistent while you teach him and not give mixed reactions as from the sounds of things he's controlling you as he would a fellow horse in his field.

Yanking them about on headcollers, shouting and smacking them and getting all angry etc will make no difference and will only go two ways ...make them head shy or act more strongly and push you about even mor (not saying you do any of these but this is how a lot of people react, so just thought I'd mention it).

Ground work, need to learn to back off by command or showing your hand in a certain way near his chest, this will only take a few weeks and you'll be able to ask him to back up even when your stood behind him if you practice every day, involves no arguments, no shouting, no slapping just a schooling whip. Stand in front of him, with his head collar and you holding the lead rope, have his full attention, press the top of the schooling whip into his chest between the muscle, apply hard pressure until he steps back, while you say Back Back, if he does not move you press hard sharp pokes and repeat your voice command. Even one step back, reward with a stroke but don't over fuss him. Don't keep doing it over and over again, just do it twice a day but do it every day, then when he's got the hang of it, involve it in your routines, fetching in/out at gates, grooming, in his stable when you are around the door so he learns to give you room near his door.

Also, is he using his head to nut you with or move you? (again quite command) because what do you do...you move away...he's then got what he wants, your out of his space again he rules you.

A sharp elbow extremely quickly in his face the instant he's in your face too close for comfort around your head chest area and say loudly AWAY, sounds harsh but you'll only have to do it once or twice, he won't like it and it will hurt and it will take him by suprise but you must do it straight away, not few seconds later otherwise he will feel like you are punishing him for something he is not sure what he's done...horses react on instant not a 10 seconds later after you've rubbed your arm from where he's bitten you etc etc.

Far better to do this once or twice than shouting and giving his a wollop round the neck or chest 5 times a day because the message is not sinking in because this won't make a difference, horses bite hard and kick hard to get there message across to fellow horses inthere fields, a slap from a human being won't make a difference (in some horses) and who wants to be in a constant battle and having to do this to there horse? its cruel and your not achieving anything.

You must remember and this is the important bit...be extremely constant and use the same method at all times, so there is no grey areas.

I promise you if you stick to this, you will an excellent well mannered horse within a month who respects you and enjoys your company, he will seek comfort and reassurance in your lead ship, it never fails if you do it correctly.
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That's a shame about him getting shut in over the winter by other liveries, I'd be mad if they did it to my horse! Why is he barging in the stable, is it at the door or is he just generally annoying you whenever you are in beside him? If it's at the door I'd recommend a shavings fork or broom to the legs when he barges the door, it'll make him think twice about approaching quickly.

If he's annoying you in the stable I would tie him up if possible, keeps him out the way and safe, in the long term he'll realise if he's an idiot he'll have to stand in the corner tie up. I don't believe in whipping bargy horses as often it can make them even more aggressive, he's already bitten you (which deserves a good slap) you don't want to get into a battle of wills with him.
 
I always ask my horse to move back when i am coming in to the stable, reminds them of their manners rather than trying to barge out.
Sounds to me like people have said above, that you need to be consistent in your handling of him so he knows clearly what is acceptable and what isnt. And also look to why he has started this, is he stabled for long periods so wants to get out quick, or over fed/underexercised. If he's only just started this he is tryigng to tell you something!
 
He does need to respect your space and I think Kenzo has offered some excellent advice. You can do the groundwork in an arena or enclosed yard if you're worried about him squashing you in the stable, and then repeat it in the stable as he learns.
I'm also an advocate of tieing horses up to teach them to be patient. You can do this when you are out of the stable if he's going to wriggle around and try to flatten you (voice of experience!) Do tie him to split string which will break in the unlikely event that he panics and do keep a subtle eye on him - don't hang over the door, go and empty your barrow, clean some tack etc.
My mare used to be a complete nightmare if her yard mates were turned out or worked and she was left in. Now she knows if she runs round her stable or barges about, she gets tied up. If she stands quietly and eats her hay, she gets left in peace!
 
Please explain to me how typing a horse up will teach him to be patient????

Bored, resentful, stroppy or a rope breaker maybe but patient????
 
Right, I'll try to answer everyones posts & questions in one!
But 1st of all thanks to everyone for taking the time to reply!
It is very dangerous - he's started doing this over the last few weeks but wasn't 100% happy about being in his stable since he was being shut in - I had words with the livery over this & she still doesn't talk to me very much! I'm not bothered though, I was furious!
He's only doing it in the stable - to lead, load, catch, groom etc. he's fine. He'd stand on the yard all day but seems to hate his stable - even if there is hay in there he'll hang over the door.
As soon as I unlock the door he's trying to escape - I tell him back back etc. but it makes no difference - he wants out! He's better if he knows he's on his own - if another horse comes onto the yard he gets himself a bit worked up (his stable is in a block & he can't see onto the yard but can obviously hear them!).
He's never stabled for long periods really - he's out 24/7 this time of year & only comes into the stable every so often or if he's been hosed off & it's too cold to turn out etc.
He's getting mainly just grass - he does have a handful of lo-cal & hifi lite if he's worked so that I can get electrolytes into him - he's ridden 5-6 times per week, variation of schooling & hacking with some jumping included every so often.
I've thought about getting a stall chain so I can clip it on behind the door - not sure it would hold him in though...!
It has been suggested that I should go in with a small whip & smack his chest but he's pushing the door before I get it open so how would I get a whip/brush etc. in there before he comes out? He just does not want to be in his stable!
I'm concerned about it as he hasn't always been this way & he's a very sweet, nice natured chap most of the time.
The smack was split second timing as I was so shocked he'd nipped me that I swung for him immediately!
Sorry if I've missed anything out...
 
Have to agree with Spaniel on this - if I tied him up in his stable & just left him he'd get himself in a right state!
I'm trying very hard not to be too soft over this but as I said in my previous reply he's a very sweet natured horse so I am more than a little concerned....
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I'm very worried the livery did more to him than just shut the grill...
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He sounds anxious rather than nasty. Poor boy! I agree that i don't think tying up will help but I also agree he has to learn not to push. It sounds like he might need to be persuaded his stable is a safe and pleasant place again. Did the other livery say why she'd shut his grill? I think you need to use some of the methods above to stop him barging but also spend time with him fussing him and being around him in his stable. Is he fed in his stable? It sounds like a nightmare especially if he's normally lovely!
 
Do you have a stall chain/web guard across the doorway. That would give you some chance of getting in the stable before he exits past you plus you may find that by having the chain up and leaving the door open (under supervision only) the anxiety may lessen. Once he can cope with that it may be that when you start leaving the door closed the anxious habit/behaviour has been broken.
 
She shut his grill as she had her horse tied outside his stable (even though there are rings on the yard she could use!). I don't have a problem with this afterall there's a safety issue involved & while ever her horse was stood there Bailey would know he wasn't alone but then she 'forgot' to open the grill when she went on a hack - the poor animal could have been shut in for hours! I was seething with anger & if I think about it now it really winds me up...!
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I do occasionally feed him in his stable. If I try grooming him in there he stands with his head over the door, it's heart breaking really!
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I don't want to use a whip etc. if he's genuinely worried but I don't want him to take the p out of me either...
 
Not yet, I'm not sure it'll hold him if he wants to get out, he's a big strong lad...!
I think I may invest in one though to give it a go - they're not expensive.
 
This may take time again for him to settle, obviously there is a issue and something has sparked this off and it does not sound to be a nasty thing, his nerves are working over time, feeling anshous and he is obviously threating....his way of releasing this frustration is on you, just because your there, you need to change how he's thinking mentally rather than what he's doing physically.

Does he shake? has he started box walking? do he winy a lot, start to pass a lot of dropping while in his stable? will he eat while he is the stable? obviously depending on how he reacts tying him up may have a negative reaction, but then again you have to think safety at all times.

Tying him up while you groom and while he picks a hay net may relax him if you do this everyday in short sessions, while he can look over his stable door, is it possible to do this outside his stable to start with, then in his stable with the door open...gradual process or perhaps move him either away from any other horses so his mind if only focused on you and his food, or if he's better with company nearer horses or a larger stable.

You could put him on carmer for a few weeks until perhaps he realises that its not such a bad thing coming in, it will just take the edge off. Is there a particular field companion that he is attached to that he can't see when he's in the stable? or tie another horse up outside his stable to share a hay net with? little things like this might help until he feels he can cope with it again.

Was a there a bad thunder storm that may of occurred while he was in his stable?

Sorry just throwing a few questions around that might make you think oooh yes maybe its that.

I can't believe someone interfered and shut his top door or whatever is it you said and your YM or owner should take this seriously and try and help you out here, you find that it just takes time again for him to regain his confidence of being in...without feeling trapped or frightened.
 
He does whinney a bit & pass a few droppings, he will occasionally shake & get a bit clammy.
There could have been a thunder storm while he was in but certainly not while he was in on his own...
He will pick at his haynet but is back & forth to it although the other day YM & I were stood in his stable, door was wide open (YM stood in door way) and he was eating his haynet quite happily, made no attempt to get out etc. YM schools him weekly & he knows exactly how far to push him - perhaps he has more respect for YM? There were no other horses in the block or on the yard.
He doesn't have a field companion as such - he's turned out next to others but ours have their own paddocks but can groom over the fence etc. He's more than happy in the field.
 
All I will say with the tieing up issue is try it....just make sure there is enough bedding etc in the stable. The worst thing you can do is keep looking at the horse to 'make sure it is alright1
Obviously if the horse is stir crazy from being stabled it won't work, but I though we were talking about manners here, and without wanting to be unfair to NaughtyNutmegAngel, from what she says about the YM, it sounds like this is a repsect issue rahter than a horse that is particularly stressed out.
 
I would certainly do some ground work with him, its always good to do this anyway even if that is not the issue, by this he will learn that he has to listen to you as well as your YM or who ever it is that is schooling him etc he may just felt at ease because your YM was stood there as I said before a horse will feel safe around his leader..same as in the wild, or safety in numbers so again would be more relaxed.

I would personally tackle this problem as you would with bad loader (in this case I mean horse that is nervous going in a trailer/horse box) except you have an advantage...your horse will go in the stable.

So I would repeat the process daily in very short intervals, bring him in, type up (for your safety proving this does not make him any worse) let him indulge in some of his favourite food, you remain calm, give him a short groom or massage, untie and make sure he leaves the stable in a quite manor.

Do this in very short intervals, starting off with a minute, increasing each day, but then when you un tie him, don't take him out of the stable straight away, make him wait a minute till your command so he is not second guessing what is going to happen next, hopefully after a month he will see it as routine...horses need routine and find it a comfort and will eventually help reduce the stress of it all, passing droppings (or if they suddenly go runny) calling out and walking back a forth is a sign of stress and not naughtiness but in this case it may just be a case of a bit of both so tackle both in calm and relaxed way...I just give it time hun.
 
QR - I don't think this is purely a respect thing as I've said he does fret, he'll sweat a little, whinney etc. He does not like being in his stable.
I don't think I've made myself very clear about the schooling - I school my horse myself, I ride him 99.9% of the time, he is well aware who his leader is! The YM rides him as part of our weekly lesson - he's a man and commands alot of respect from the horses without using force of any kind. Every horse that meets him respects him, it's uncanny really! Bailey is well aware that YM is far stronger than I am though so would probably think twice before barging him, granted.
When he is being ridden by YM he will often look to me & try to make his way over to me (which of course never works!) so I think he knows exactly who I am in terms of leadership...?!
I think he is genuinely worried by his stable but I'm not ruling out the possibility that he's also pushing his luck!
 
Hope it all works out however you deal with it and also it would be really nice to hear from you and let us know what works or helps or if there is any change.
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I think its really useful and nice to hear from people ont the forum if they do get to the bottom of any issues and let us know so other people who may have similar problems can try the same method and have the same sucess rather than not hearing about and stuggling on etc...
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Mr Blue Pipe is very effective in these situations..

crack him with it as soon as he starts..

he'll only try it on once or twice more
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Thanks for your help - and thanks to everyone who has taken the time to reply, much appreciated guys!
I will def. let you know how we get on. I think the groundwork you suggested is worth trying anyway...
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That was my 1st response! Well, I was going to use Mr Whippy - and I don't mean the ice cream...!
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Do you think this is still the correct approach with a horse that seems genuinely worried about being in the stable?
 
They're all proper stables - not stalls like in a barn - but they're in a building, if that makes sense? There are 5 in an L shape - 2 are separate from the others & Bailey is in one of these - there's a walkway & a tie ring for clipping right opposite his stable door which is why he was being shut in...
 
You can get fixings from tack shops that enable you to place a stout piece of wood across a stable doorway. This has the advantage over a chain that the horse cannot limbo underneath it, and it is easy to release with one hand. Our youngser was bargy but now knows 'back' and 'wait', which makes life a whole lot easier! Definitely get something across his doorway though, so you can open his door and still have some control.
 
Dont laugh but does he have a good view or is he at the proper indoors end of the 'L'. If all he can see is walls and disappearing horses he may be more settled if he can see whats going on outside.
 
QR - he's at the end of the short '-' bit rather than on the 'l' bit - if you know what I mean?! If he looks left he can sort of see into the yard through the sliding door but the tie rings are all past where he can see. There isn't anywhere that he could be stabled where he could see into the yard...
There is one stable that has a window looking onto the yard however the stable is huge & there is a bigger horse in there already, not sure the owner would be willing to give it up...
 
Unfortunately I've already ordered a webbing guard - I'll see how I go with that & if he snaps it I'll have to rethink & use a chain or a plank...!
 
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