Barn box profile roof spray foam insulation ?

[theopuppy]

Hi,

Has anyone had this done in their barn?

I had it done in 2013 in my small hay barn as condensation was dripping off the box profile onto the hay. Sadly now the foam spray is flaking off into the hay. It started two years ago and the company who applied the foam spray made light of it saying the bits weren’t toxic but could cause digestive upsets if a large piece was ingested.
Two years later there must be hundreds of bits coming off into the hay and wafting around the barn I have to sweep up all the bits and dispose of it into the general waste. The pain is I have to cover my hay and everything in the barn gets peppered with fragments of polyurethane 2-5mm bits. To top it all its now started dripping water.

Please can anyone advise what to do? It would be a mammoth job to remove the foam, not to mention the environmental pollution. The company also sealed on the wood trusses which can’t be right as they will be getting damp and I assume will rot.

The company who sprayed the foam were contacted a couple of weeks ago but remain unresponsive.

Hoping for some advice from people in the know.
Many thanks.

 

[theopuppy]

Bumping up in case anyone on here can advise.. no luck getting advise from other foam spray companies sadly

 

[Cragrat]

I have no idea, sorry, though I have heard of people putting it in lofts and then having problems years later.... might be worth a search on loft spray foam to see if there are any solutions offered?

If it wasn't for the wooden trusses also beig covered and therefore possibly rotting, I would have suggested lining the underside with plastic -something like silage clamp sheeting could be tacked up with batons to prevent the pieces falling into your hay.

 

[I'm Dun]

I'd cover it with plywood. I dont think you have many other options. Spray foam is awful stuff, so at least its just the hay barn. Some poor sods had it done in their houses

 

[theopuppy]

I'd cover it with plywood. I dont think you have many other options. Spray foam is awful stuff, so at least its just the hay barn. Some poor sods had it done in their houses

Thanks.. that sounds like the only solution re plywood although I’m concerned re vermin getting in any gaps. Another company has said it shouldn’t flake off and have offered to seal in with more foam spray to a greater thickness. Not sure if this would be yet more money down the drain. No real answers anywhere from spray companies. The regulation BUFCA doesn’t seem to exist any more.. no answers to email and phone number dead.
Just found the company I used has gone into liquidation. What a fiasco!

 

[mariew]

A lot of spray foam companies have gone into liquidation, I can only assume to avoid having to deal with making houses good. It's awful stuff for houses as it was rarely applied properly it's now super expensive to get it removed.

I'd be tempted to cover it up with something but you need some kind of ventilation/drainage to remove moisture. Lucky it's only a barn at least!

 

[PurBee]

They must have used a really bad quality foam to do the job in the first place.
We have a barn with gaps in the roof which we initially quickly sealed with that yellow spray foam you get in a large spraycan from DIY places like Wickes. It’s been installed 16yrs and is still whole and fully in place, just discoloured a deeper yellow colour.

As it’s now dripping again with condensation - is that condensation coming off the foam layer, or from the metal box profile beneath? Has the foam layer come away from the box profile metal? How thick is the spray foam layer?
Covering it over with anything temporary could risk trapping that moisture and causing more wood frame rot, but could work as a temporary solution this winter to stop the bits floating off to protect your hay, until spring when a more final solution can be installed.

If the barn is very good condition with years of life left, I’d personally consider a re-do job in the spring. Especially if the original foam spray is no longer adhering firmly to the tin box profile roof sheets. If it’s loose, to scrape it off and start again with a better foam with a 20+yr life span at least - although like I say, good foam generally lasts forever…like polystyrene…it just doesn’t rot easily.

But if the foam layer is still glued tight to the box profile sheets, and would be difficult to scrape off - that’s a good candidate to consider another thin layer of good quality foam sprayed onto it to provide a better outer layer. It would need a firm brush-off to loosen any bits that are loose - or use a powerful air-gun to blow-off the looser bits, before reapplying another thin layer of high quality foam.

The box profile tin sheets these days are so thin they do condensate on their own without insulation, unfortunately. We have that for a small wood shed, and even that drips onto the wood!
Whereas we have barns with the old-fashioned 1940’s wavy ‘tin’ sheets on it, that I think are made of steel - those sheets are way thicker than these modern roofing tin sheets - about 2mm thick- they don’t condensate and drip - they’re brilliant! You can’t buy that quality easily off the shelf anymore - we tried and got thinner sheets. The wavy profile tends to condensate less than box profile, maybe due to the flat sections being more prone to condensate, due to the way air moves beneath the profile shapes, perhaps.

 

[smolmaus]

If the moisture really is only condensation and there are no leaks from the roof then sealing it from below would be a viable solution. But you would need someone to inspect it and confirm the roof is sealed and the trusses aren't rotting, as once it's covered you won't notice a further issue until it's too late. You'd also need to do that when the roof is dry so in summer really.

I wouldn't go near another spray foam company. I'd go to a surveyor for a proper report. Or even citizens advice if you feel you've been mis-sold the spray insulation, there will likely be others in the area with the same problem with this company.

 

[PurBee]

Thinking about it, the spray foams that are beige/white coloured are likely now using acrylic based glues with the foam, and acrylic can tend to flake and disintegrate with time.
Whereas polyurethane glues that are /were more common in the spray-foams aerosol cans were a yellow foam colour, and do stink applying it.
Polyurethane tends to yellow a deeper colour over time due to light exposure - so hence my yellow foam after 16yrs has gone a deeper yellow/orangey colour. Despite being in dark crevices in a dark roof. However, the polyurethane is much more stable as a glue and the foam is still solid.

If many of these companies have gone into liquidation, it’s likely due to this issue of the foam failing eventually, and old customers knocking at the door!

 

[I'm Dun]

Thanks.. that sounds like the only solution re plywood although I’m concerned re vermin getting in any gaps. Another company has said it shouldn’t flake off and have offered to seal in with more foam spray to a greater thickness. Not sure if this would be yet more money down the drain. No real answers anywhere from spray companies. The regulation BUFCA doesn’t seem to exist any more.. no answers to email and phone number dead.
Just found the company I used has gone into liquidation. What a fiasco!

If vermin get in, they get in. I suspect it would be too much hassle chewing through the foam though. And with te moisture thing, unless your roof leaks you wont have any if they plywood is fitted flush to the insulation. Id probably seal it with something though so it lasts a reasonably long time

 

[I'm Dun]

actually, it would probably be a lot cheaper and easier to get tarps and cover the hay with them. You could tie them up to the corner posts so they dont touch the hay or the foam and make a sort of bodge job floating ceiling.

 

[Suechoccy]

What about applying a coat of anti-condensation paint? You might even be able to paint it over the flaking foam too.

 

[theopuppy]

They must have used a really bad quality foam to do the job in the first place.
We have a barn with gaps in the roof which we initially quickly sealed with that yellow spray foam you get in a large spraycan from DIY places like Wickes. It’s been installed 16yrs and is still whole and fully in place, just discoloured a deeper yellow colour.

As it’s now dripping again with condensation - is that condensation coming off the foam layer, or from the metal box profile beneath? Has the foam layer come away from the box profile metal? How thick is the spray foam layer?
Covering it over with anything temporary could risk trapping that moisture and causing more wood frame rot, but could work as a temporary solution this winter to stop the bits floating off to protect your hay, until spring when a more final solution can be installed.

If the barn is very good condition with years of life left, I’d personally consider a re-do job in the spring. Especially if the original foam spray is no longer adhering firmly to the tin box profile roof sheets. If it’s loose, to scrape it off and start again with a better foam with a 20+yr life span at least - although like I say, good foam generally lasts forever…like polystyrene…it just doesn’t rot easily.

But if the foam layer is still glued tight to the box profile sheets, and would be difficult to scrape off - that’s a good candidate to consider another thin layer of good quality foam sprayed onto it to provide a better outer layer. It would need a firm brush-off to loosen any bits that are loose - or use a powerful air-gun to blow-off the looser bits, before reapplying another thin layer of high quality foam.

The box profile tin sheets these days are so thin they do condensate on their own without insulation, unfortunately. We have that for a small wood shed, and even that drips onto the wood!
Whereas we have barns with the old-fashioned 1940’s wavy ‘tin’ sheets on it, that I think are made of steel - those sheets are way thicker than these modern roofing tin sheets - about 2mm thick- they don’t condensate and drip - they’re brilliant! You can’t buy that quality easily off the shelf anymore - we tried and got thinner sheets. The wavy profile tends to condensate less than box profile, maybe due to the flat sections being more prone to condensate, due to the way air moves beneath the profile shapes, perhaps.

Sounds like my foam as it’s gone orange. White where bits have recently flaked off in tiny 2-5 mm fragments. The foam is still attached to the box profile. It was sprayed to 25 mm on the directive but looks really uneven so I expect bits deeper and shallower than 25 mm. I think you can still get those thick wavy sheets… not sure if it’s called fibre cement or something else.. not metal but grey mat looking material that were used extensively on outbuildings in the past. No condensation with these according to the local supplier. I don’t think they are cheap hence the metal sheets have become more popular.

I’m not sure if the condensation is off the underside of the foam or gathering between the foam and box profile. The foam. Appears to have a swelling just above where I have seen wet patches on the floor. I’ll need to get a ladder and feel it to check.

I might get some spray myself from Screwfix and see if I can temporarily seal the bits that are flaking off.. someone said it was rats pecking at it but I find that hard to believe as the would need to be clinging to the ceiling to do that. However I shall ask the pest control man.

A roofer has said an overlay of insulated box profile may help to stop any wet that may be ingressing from the top and stop a condensation developing on the original box profile therefore giving the wood a chance to dry out before the whole lot rots and collapses. I hadn’t considered it might be condensation developing on the lower visible exposed surface of the foam. The wet patches on the floor appeared in summer. Bizarrely after a whole day and night of rain the wet patches aren’t there today. My electric is also shorting and I suspect it’s the damp getting to the sealed in electrics in the barn… stables not switched off and electric back on.

Thanks for your insight.. been helpful.

 

[theopuppy]

What about applying a coat of anti-condensation paint? You might even be able to paint it over the flaking foam too.

Will Google that .. thanks for suggestion.

 

[theopuppy]

actually, it would probably be a lot cheaper and easier to get tarps and cover the hay with them. You could tie them up to the corner posts so they dont touch the hay or the foam and make a sort of bodge job floating ceiling.

Everything is covered with either dust sheets or plastic. It’s a real pain as I’m going over everything really closely to check no polyurethane fragments are getting into my haynets Etc.. I would say I’m clearing up hundreds of fragments daily. .. double pain now I have no electric as doing it with a head torch!

Might be a good idea re floating tarp of some description.. would definitely be a bodge job as it’s quite a distance to the supporting uprights and a decent pvc tarp would probably be too heavy to stay up .. will get thinking cap on for a suitable lighter material.. the bits flaking off weigh nothing as it’s like polystyrene fragments.. wondering if some sort of material like net curtain/ gauze would do as light in weight and therefore easier to fasten up somehow .. however where to source?

 

[theopuppy]

If the moisture really is only condensation and there are no leaks from the roof then sealing it from below would be a viable solution. But you would need someone to inspect it and confirm the roof is sealed and the trusses aren't rotting, as once it's covered you won't notice a further issue until it's too late. You'd also need to do that when the roof is dry so in summer really.

I wouldn't go near another spray foam company. I'd go to a surveyor for a proper report. Or even citizens advice if you feel you've been mis-sold the spray insulation, there will likely be others in the area with the same problem with this company.

Apparently as it’s more than 7 years since the job was done there is no recourse.. either way the company is liquidated so I’m alone on this one. I haven’t looked but someone else said there are some reports of issues with the company concerned. Good idea re surveyor.. at least will get impartial and professional advice. Thanks

 

[theopuppy]

Thinking about it, the spray foams that are beige/white coloured are likely now using acrylic based glues with the foam, and acrylic can tend to flake and disintegrate with time.
Whereas polyurethane glues that are /were more common in the spray-foams aerosol cans were a yellow foam colour, and do stink applying it.
Polyurethane tends to yellow a deeper colour over time due to light exposure - so hence my yellow foam after 16yrs has gone a deeper yellow/orangey colour. Despite being in dark crevices in a dark roof. However, the polyurethane is much more stable as a glue and the foam is still solid.

If many of these companies have gone into liquidation, it’s likely due to this issue of the foam failing eventually, and old customers knocking at the door!

Think you have hit the nail on the head with your thoughts.

 

[I'm Dun]

Everything is covered with either dust sheets or plastic. It’s a real pain as I’m going over everything really closely to check no polyurethane fragments are getting into my haynets Etc.. I would say I’m clearing up hundreds of fragments daily. .. double pain now I have no electric as doing it with a head torch!

Might be a good idea re floating tarp of some description.. would definitely be a bodge job as it’s quite a distance to the supporting uprights and a decent pvc tarp would probably be too heavy to stay up .. will get thinking cap on for a suitable lighter material.. the bits flaking off weigh nothing as it’s like polystyrene fragments.. wondering if some sort of material like net curtain/ gauze would do as light in weight and therefore easier to fasten up somehow .. however where to source?

Look at climbing attachments, carabiners and the like. They can take a couple of hundred kilograms of weight and are designed to hold things.

 

[PurBee]

Sounds like my foam as it’s gone orange. White where bits have recently flaked off in tiny 2-5 mm fragments. The foam is still attached to the box profile. It was sprayed to 25 mm on the directive but looks really uneven so I expect bits deeper and shallower than 25 mm. I think you can still get those thick wavy sheets… not sure if it’s called fibre cement or something else.. not metal but grey mat looking material that were used extensively on outbuildings in the past. No condensation with these according to the local supplier. I don’t think they are cheap hence the metal sheets have become more popular.

I’m not sure if the condensation is off the underside of the foam or gathering between the foam and box profile. The foam. Appears to have a swelling just above where I have seen wet patches on the floor. I’ll need to get a ladder and feel it to check.

I might get some spray myself from Screwfix and see if I can temporarily seal the bits that are flaking off.. someone said it was rats pecking at it but I find that hard to believe as the would need to be clinging to the ceiling to do that. However I shall ask the pest control man.

A roofer has said an overlay of insulated box profile may help to stop any wet that may be ingressing from the top and stop a condensation developing on the original box profile therefore giving the wood a chance to dry out before the whole lot rots and collapses. I hadn’t considered it might be condensation developing on the lower visible exposed surface of the foam. The wet patches on the floor appeared in summer. Bizarrely after a whole day and night of rain the wet patches aren’t there today. My electric is also shorting and I suspect it’s the damp getting to the sealed in electrics in the barn… stables not switched off and electric back on.

Thanks for your insight.. been helpful.

That’s very curious that you have wet patches on the floor in summer and electric problems shorting. I wonder if damp is still forming between the metal and foam layer, hence causing that bulge you speak of?

I once did a job insulating with that can spray foam. Onto OSB board. It was surprising hard to get it to stick to it, and that’s wood. PVA beforehand gives a sticky layer to adhere to. I wonder if the spray foam that you’ve had done is similar, and I imagine smooth metal is harder to stick to. The lancelet delivery system they tend to use for roof foam insulation spurts out bits and likely when fresh sticks quite well. But I do wonder if it remains stuck as a layer longterm, or starts to lift away in places as a sheet of foam? Then you’d get condensation forming puddling between the 2 layers.

If you can get up there to investigate with a metal handheld scraper trowel, and see if you can easily scrape it off, or whether it’s firmly adhered in most places. Try a few places - especially where wet patches form beneath.

I once pinned up plastic in a barn as a ‘second roof layer’ to catch swallow poop from covering all my things stored in the barn. I used thin lightweight plastic and nails bent as hooks for fixing it on. It was quite a small area though. Not windy either as a closed barn.
I’m not sure if lightweight plastic would work in a partial open barn with potential breezes/wind - it would flap and the bits would blow above it and out, unless you could fit it on the edges well to contain the bits.
Silage black plastic comes on rolls and is lightweight.
There’s some cheap thin 80-100gsm large tarps that are almost as thin as shopping bags, that might work. The eyelets give handy fixing places (We always moan about the quality of tarps these days!)
What size is the barn, and roof height?

The pre-insulated panels are eye watering cost - if going that route you may aswell take off current panels, sell secondhand with fluffy bits advisory to recoup some cost, and reroof with insulated panels.
Compare the insulated box profile panels with the cement board wavy panels you mention. Like asbestos, they can absorb moisture, and then dry out again.
These roofing panels leaking condensation these days are quite the joke really. We roof to keep an area dry….why on earth are roofing panels that easily condensate even on the market?!
Our wood shelter in tiny and open slatted all sides for air flow, and even that small 2x6m box profile angled roof drips in winter onto the dry wood

 

[Landcruiser]

How big is the roof? Musing on the possibility of stripping off the actual box profile and starting again. We did 3 stables worth of profile that came with anti condensation coating ("Drip-Stop")(looks like thin felt) and it works a treat. The spray foam stuff is a nightmare.

My parents had their loft done - some years later the upstairs walls got damp and it turned out the roofing timbers had rotted out and causing rain ingress. It was a devil to fix it because of the foam, and cost thousands for one small section to be removed and made good. The stuff is the work of the devil!

 

[PurBee]

How big is the roof? Musing on the possibility of stripping off the actual box profile and starting again. We did 3 stables worth of profile that came with anti condensation coating (looks like thin felt) and it works a treat. The spray foam stuff is a nightmare.

My parents had their loft done - some years later the upstairs walls got damp and it turned out the roofing timbers had rotted out and causing rain ingress. It was a devil to fix it because of the foam, and cost thousands for one small section to be removed and made good. The stuff is the work of the devil!

That’s useful to know the felt layer works, I always wondered if it did.
So many massive cow sheds / barns are now built in Ireland with box profile that were once corrugated thick steel, and I dread to think how they must feel with the winter dripping. These barns are not cheap to clad! I hope manufacturers are advising them to go for the felt or insulated, rather than bare metal sheets.

 

[PeterNatt]

I would instruct a structural surveyor/engineer to carry out a survey and provide you with a written report outlining the necessary actions to resolve the issue.
Then ask the company that installed the foam to rectify the issue as per the surveyor's report.
If they fail to comply, then take them to the small claims court, which you can do online. (Link below)

Make a court claim for money

How to take legal action if someone owes you money (small claims court), how much it costs, what happens next. Includes information from withdrawn guidance EX303, EX304, EX306, EX321, EX325 and EX350.

www.gov.uk

 

[teacups]

I would instruct a structural surveyor/engineer to carry out a survey and provide you with a written report outlining the necessary actions to resolve the issue.
Then ask the company that installed the foam to rectify the issue as per the surveyor's report.
If they fail to comply, then take them to the small claims court, which you can do online. (Link below)

Make a court claim for money

How to take legal action if someone owes you money (small claims court), how much it costs, what happens next. Includes information from withdrawn guidance EX303, EX304, EX306, EX321, EX325 and EX350.

www.gov.uk

You’ve missed reading the bit which said that the company has already gone bust.

 

[sport horse]

Mortgae companies will not loan if ahouse has foam sprayin the roof. Friend of mine had to have it all removed before the surveyors would pass it.

 

[DabDab]

It's the work of the devil that stuff. If it is against timber then it will rot the timbers out, because it holds onto moisture next to the timber work. Tbh I would consider the original installers to have missold it to you if it was to fix a condensation problem.

If you can't get it off the full roof I would at least go up and cut/scrape it away from the timber work. Painting it over with thin resin/adhesive/lacquer construction product should stop it flaking.

 

[theopuppy]

I would instruct a structural surveyor/engineer to carry out a survey and provide you with a written report outlining the necessary actions to resolve the issue.
Then ask the company that installed the foam to rectify the issue as per the surveyor's report.
If they fail to comply, then take them to the small claims court, which you can do online. (Link below)

Make a court claim for money

How to take legal action if someone owes you money (small claims court), how much it costs, what happens next. Includes information from withdrawn guidance EX303, EX304, EX306, EX321, EX325 and EX350.

www.gov.uk

Unfortunately I have found out the company went into liquidation last year so I’m on my own with this.

 

[theopuppy]

It's the work of the devil that stuff. If it is against timber then it will rot the timbers out, because it holds onto moisture next to the timber work. Tbh I would consider the original installers to have missold it to you if it was to fix a condensation problem.

If you can't get it off the full roof I would at least go up and cut/scrape it away from the timber work. Painting it over with thin resin/adhesive/lacquer construction product should stop it flaking.

Getting the foam off the timber would be a tricky job and also make a terrible mess but I suspect this would be the way forward. I currently Have a barn full of hay( covered or wrapped) as I had to stock up due to the hay shortage.im thinking of putting another insulated box profile over the current box profile. The trickiest thing is trying to get someone to help me with it as it’s not an easy job and needs someone conscientious off the environment to not scatter the foam particles about and clear up.
I’ve looked at Screwfix.. no idea what is ok to cover the foam.. thinking another foam spray??? Nobody seems to have any idea even the foam spray people who all claim they have never seen the foam flaking and have no solution.

Mortgae companies will not loan if ahouse has foam sprayin the roof. Friend of mine had to have it all removed before the surveyors would pass it.

Fortunately it’s in the barn , not in the house. It’s used widely in barn storage facilities apparently.. hence how I came across it years ago.

 

[theopuppy]

How big is the roof? Musing on the possibility of stripping off the actual box profile and starting again. We did 3 stables worth of profile that came with anti condensation coating ("Drip-Stop")(looks like thin felt) and it works a treat. The spray foam stuff is a nightmare.

My parents had their loft done - some years later the upstairs walls got damp and it turned out the roofing timbers had rotted out and causing rain ingress. It was a devil to fix it because of the foam, and cost thousands for one small section to be removed and made good. The stuff is the work of the devil!

20. X 60 ‘ approx. 82sq metres roof surface.
I’d thought about that but the foam bits would go everywhere and it’s next to a paddock.. it would be impossible to contain without massive environmental pollution. My horses are in this paddock as it’s my winter loafing area.

That makes sense re damp wood as the electric in there is now switched off as it kept shorting the main house. A PIA as I’m in there with a head torch now! Already paranoid about the foam bits and now doubly hard to see the in the semi dark.. at least they are white. All hay is covered and swept up immediately so no bits get in anything that is fed.

 

[theopuppy]

Mortgae companies will not loan if ahouse has foam sprayin the roof. Friend of mine had to have it all removed before the surveyors would pass it.

I’ve contacted a company who advertise foam removal to and they declined to assist.

 

[theopuppy]

That’s very curious that you have wet patches on the floor in summer and electric problems shorting. I wonder if damp is still forming between the metal and foam layer, hence causing that bulge you speak of?

I once did a job insulating with that can spray foam. Onto OSB board. It was surprising hard to get it to stick to it, and that’s wood. PVA beforehand gives a sticky layer to adhere to. I wonder if the spray foam that you’ve had done is similar, and I imagine smooth metal is harder to stick to. The lancelet delivery system they tend to use for roof foam insulation spurts out bits and likely when fresh sticks quite well. But I do wonder if it remains stuck as a layer longterm, or starts to lift away in places as a sheet of foam? Then you’d get condensation forming puddling between the 2 layers.

If you can get up there to investigate with a metal handheld scraper trowel, and see if you can easily scrape it off, or whether it’s firmly adhered in most places. Try a few places - especially where wet patches form beneath.

I once pinned up plastic in a barn as a ‘second roof layer’ to catch swallow poop from covering all my things stored in the barn. I used thin lightweight plastic and nails bent as hooks for fixing it on. It was quite a small area though. Not windy either as a closed barn.
I’m not sure if lightweight plastic would work in a partial open barn with potential breezes/wind - it would flap and the bits would blow above it and out, unless you could fit it on the edges well to contain the bits.
Silage black plastic comes on rolls and is lightweight.
There’s some cheap thin 80-100gsm large tarps that are almost as thin as shopping bags, that might work. The eyelets give handy fixing places (We always moan about the quality of tarps these days!)
What size is the barn, and roof height?

The pre-insulated panels are eye watering cost - if going that route you may aswell take off current panels, sell secondhand with fluffy bits advisory to recoup some cost, and reroof with insulated panels.
Compare the insulated box profile panels with the cement board wavy panels you mention. Like asbestos, they can absorb moisture, and then dry out again.
These roofing panels leaking condensation these days are quite the joke really. We roof to keep an area dry….why on earth are roofing panels that easily condensate even on the market?!
Our wood shelter in tiny and open slatted all sides for air flow, and even that small 2x6m box profile angled roof drips in winter onto the dry wood

I think your explanation sounds exactly what has happened in my situation. My thoughts are get the stuff removed off the wood and put board or tarp underneath the flat areas. Good point re wind whistling over the tarp and blowing the stuff out.. will try to seal it where flaking and then block the wind tunnel somehow. I’ve got Yorkshire boarding all round. So I’ll get the top bits blocked off to prevent wind driving through the slats.. birds nest up on one of the rafters so thankfully the nests are vacated atm l I did worry about the chicks getting covered with the foam bits this summer… never saw them fledge so not sure if they survived.

The difficult job is getting someone willing to help.. no takers so far from foam remodel companies. Will see what the local builders merchant have re covering for the underside.

The adjacent stables are having new insulated box profile in December to replace the rubbish Onduline .. yes it’s eye watering… been saving up for two years.

Great suggestions thank you.