Barrier Frustration

[meleeka]

I have a German Shepherd who’s had an awful life in the past and hasn’t really seen much of the world and is consequently very nervous. We’ve owned her for just short of a year, but knew her before.

I’ve also got a JRT who’s really helped with the GS’s confidence but something awful happened last night and now Im very worried going forward. There was a fox the other side of the fence, as there often is. It’s an airfield and the fence is just chain link. GS goes mad when she sees them and I usually call her indoors but last night she got hold of JRT and shook her, causing a puncture wound.
Google informs me it was due to barrier frustration - she wanted to get to the fox but couldn’t so picked the nearest thing.

I’m obviously going to put a barrier up at the fence so she can’t see foxes anymore, but Im concerned that if she gets excited over another dog when out she’ll do it again. So far we’ve made huge progress and instead of barking at dogs that get close when on a lead she will carry on walking and ignore. Her exposure to strange dogs has been very limited, but she’s friendly with visiting dogs and has never shown any hint of aggression. I think she’d like to be playful but all the family dogs are smaller and don’t like it. They’ve all told her off and she’s not retaliated and respected them.

Is there anything i should be doing when faced with a potentially over-exciting situation? (She doesn’t do treats at all, or toys when something is worrying/interesting her).

 

[Bellasophia]

You are dealing with displacement aggression..
..until our gsd experts come in I would start reading up on this and be prepared for the long haul..It’s an ingrained displacement behavior..you will probably need a behaviorist trainer to help ,but for the meantime,definitely put dark covering on the perimeter fencing so she can’t see her triggers..

 

[CorvusCorax]

Yeah it's not unusual, it's just redirection (if you can't bite the one you want, bite the one you're with).

If you know about it now and know what the triggers are likely to be, you can be more vigilant and manage it.
I would not walk them immediately beside each other if they are likely to be in a situation where this kind of thing might happen.
If the dog is likely to redirect you must break the behaviour at the point of locking on to the (fox/other dog) and even if that doesn't work you need **something** on which the dog can refocus.
If she's not interested in treats, then she's gone way over threshold and you needed to step in/shield/remove her earlier, or to be frank, she is not hungry enough. If she's not interested in a toy, you need to find one she loves and build her drive for it.

For my own dogs when they're in training, food (all food) and treats and balls have to be worked for. My young dog has the propensity to be a bit barky and she **only** gets fed, and I mean, it comes out of her daily food allowance, from my pockets in the garden or the park or whenever we are out and about and only when she shuts up and looks at me.
There is no point in staring and gobbing off at other things because that doesn't fill her belly.
With toys, they belong to me and the game is with me. I don't launch balls into the next county because then all the fun is over there and not engaging with me.
When I see her start to alert in the garden I make a loud noise or even throw something on the ground (bunch of keys/chain) and call her to me. When she snaps out of it = dinner. She could get a couple of pieces of kibble or the whole lot depending on how quickly she responds.
BUT make sure the terrier doesn't try and blarge in on the feeding as that will have you right back where you started.

With my old dog when he saw a dog, I said his name and gave him his ball to carry. In that way he made a positive association and didn't think 'shit here comes another dog who's going to attack me, I better go on the defensive'.

A toy will probably be a better option as they take out most of their stress through their mouths, hence grabbing the nearest thing to hand. Better a dummy tit than another dog.

Does any of that make sense?

 

[meleeka]

Yeah it's not unusual, it's just redirection (if you can't bite the one you want, bite the one you're with).

If you know about it now and know what the triggers are likely to be, you can be more vigilant and manage it.
I would not walk them immediately beside each other if they are likely to be in a situation where this kind of thing might happen.
If the dog is likely to redirect you must break the behaviour at the point of locking on to the (fox/other dog) and even if that doesn't work you need **something** on which the dog can refocus.
If she's not interested in treats, then she's gone way over threshold and you needed to step in/sheild/remove her earlier, or to be frank, she is not hungry enough. If she's not interested in a toy, you need to find one she loves and build her drive for it.

For my own dogs when they're in training, food (all food) and treats and balls have to be worked for. My young dog has the propensity to be a bit barky and she **only** gets fed, and I mean, it comes out of her daily food allowance, from my pockets in the garden or the park or whenever we are out and about and only when she shuts up and looks at me.
There is no point in staring and gobbing off at other things because that doesn't fill her belly.
With toys, they belong to me and the game is with me. I don't launch balls into the next county because then all the fun is over there and not engaging with me.
When I see her start to alert in the garden I make a loud noise or even throw something on the ground (bunch of keys/chain) and call her to me. When she snaps out of it = dinner. She could get a couple of pieces of kibble or the whole lot depending on how quickly she responds.
BUT make sure the terrier doesn't try and blarge in on the feeding as that will have you right back where you started.

With my old dog when he saw a dog, I said his name and gave him his ball to carry. In that way he made a positive association and didn't think 'shit here comes another dog who's going to attack me, I better go on the defensive'.

A toy will probably be a better option as they take out most of their stress through their mouths, hence grabbing the nearest thing to hand. Better a dummy tit than another dog.

Does any of that make sense?

Thankyou. That’s very helpful. I can’t work out if she’s nervous or excited
by other dogs, I suspect a mix of the two. When I say she’s not interested in treats, that’s all the time, not just for training. She’ll eat pieces of chicken or ham half heartedly now, but when we got her she wouldn’t eat anything by hand at all. if you offer her a dog treat which my JRT would do anything for, she doesn’t seem to understand it’s food. Keeping her meals for training probably wouldn’t work either because of the JRT.

She’s happy to redirect her emotions into toys at home, so that could be a good way forward. She’s quite aggressive with her toys when excited (when she knows we are going to the field or when i come home after a short time of leaving her), so i’m kicking myself that I didn’t see this coming.

I’ll put the toys away;so i can concentrate on increasing their value as a start i think. I do think a game of tug would be her favourite thing ever, but she doesn’t get the concept of that either and just looks at me as though she’s not allowed to hold anything.

 

[CorvusCorax]

She’s quite aggressive with her toys when excited (when she knows we are going to the field or when i come home after a short time of leaving her), so i’m kicking myself that I didn’t see this coming. I’ll put the toys away;so i can concentrate on increasing their value as a start i think.

Yep it's all linked. Stress/excitement. It's like us using a stress ball or sparking up a cig or slugging coffee or popping sweeties. I would perhaps keep pretty boring 'home' toys so she has something to take her energy out on and then a super duper amazing one that she only gets out and about.
Does she bite her lead at all?

 

[meleeka]

Yep it's all linked. Stress/excitement. It's like us using a stress ball or sparking up a cig or slugging coffee or popping sweeties. I would perhaps keep pretty boring 'home' toys so she has something to take her energy out on and then a super duper amazing one that she only gets out and about.
Does she bite her lead at all?

No, she walks calmly on a lead. Once her lead is on the excitement seems to be over. I’m pleased she can keep her boring toys as I think my slippers would get it otherwise ?

 

[SusieT]

I'd be very careful going forwards. A GS coudl kill a JRT very easily and the JRT needs protecting in this situation. How is the dynamic between them now? I wouuld not be leaving them unsupervised together and I would ensure that at the slightest hint of excitement I would be removing one or both from the room/garden etc.

 

[meleeka]

I'd be very careful going forwards. A GS coudl kill a JRT very easily and the JRT needs protecting in this situation. How is the dynamic between them now? I wouuld not be leaving them unsupervised together and I would ensure that at the slightest hint of excitement I would be removing one or both from the room/garden etc.

They are never left alone (I was in the conservatory last night so was able
to stop it quickly) as I’m well aware she’s a lot bigger. When I go out they are separated. The JRT is normally the boss and the GS isn’t very brave at all. She backs off with just a look from
the JRT. Today she’s back to normal, very respectful. I’m convinced she just boiled over and forgot herself last night, and I should have been quicker to stop the situation occurring.

 

[yhanni]

This has happened with our Mastiff and EBT - there are a couple of local dogs who they both dislike intensely and if I have been foolish enough to let them out together and one of the dogs goes past, the Mastiff will grab the EBT. He has never done it when they are on their leads and also never done it when they're in the car, although it's a real fear of mine. I am going to get him measured up for a muzzle asap.