Honeypots
Well-Known Member
...has anyone had any experiences of this pls?..
Bastard Strangles............
- Thread starter Honeypots
- Start date
Gucci_b
Well-Known Member
no..thank god...try and google it. their will be more than enough info on there.
Rockchick_uk
Well-Known Member
Yes, nearly killed my boy 3 years ago.
He had to have a emergency traceoctomy performed to save his life.
He had to have a emergency traceoctomy performed to save his life.
Cobland
Well-Known Member
No thank goodness, its something scares me the most
Haniki
Well-Known Member
The riding school where I rode when I was a child had it. Very nasty but the ponies all recovered eventually.
Haniki
Well-Known Member
The Conquest Riding for the Disabled Centre at Taunton had it this Spring - I think. It shut them for 6 months.
Rockchick_uk
Well-Known Member
People shouldnt class Strangles & Bastard Strangles the same.
Maybe this will help, anyone with Bastard Strangles or think that their horse has this strain of the disease needs to get vetinary treatment asap.
Introduction
Strangles is a highly contagious and serious infection of horses and other equids caused by the bacterium, Streptococcus equi. The disease is characterized by severe inflammation of the mucosa of the head and throat, with extensive swelling and often rupture of the lymph nodes, which produces large amounts of thick, creamy pus.
Strangles is caused by Streptococcus equi subspecies equi, better known as Streptococcus equi (S. equi). The organism can be isolated from the nose or lymph nodes of affected animals, and is usually readily identified in the laboratory by simple sugar tests.
Transmission and Environmental Survival
Horses of all ages are susceptible, though strangles is most common in animals less than 5 years of age and especially in groups of weanling foals or yearlings. Foals under 4 months of age are usually protected by colostrum-derived passive immunity. (1) S. equi is main-tained in the horse population by carrier horses but does not survive for more than 68 weeks in the environment. Although the organism is not very robust, the infection is highly contagious. Transmission is either by direct or indirect contact of susceptible animals with a diseased horse. Direct contact includes contact with a horse that is incubating strangles or has just recovered from the infection, or with an apparently clinically unaffected long-term carrier. Indirect contact occurs when an animal comes in contact with a contaminated stable (buckets, feed, walls, doors) or pasture environment (grass, fences, but almost always the water troughs), or through flies. (2)
| Top of Page |
Clinical Illness
Susceptible horses develop strangles within 314 days of exposure. (2) Animals show typical signs of a generalized infectious process (depression, inappetence, and fever of 39°C39.5°C). More typically of strangles, horses develop a nasal discharge (initially mucoid, rapidly thickening and purulent), a soft cough and slight but painful swelling between the mandibles, with swelling of the submandibular lymph node. Horses are often seen positioning their heads low and extended, so as to relieve the throat and lymph node pain.
With the progression of the disease, abscesses develop in the submandibular (between the jaw bones) and/or retropharyngeal (at the back of the throat) lymph nodes. The lymph nodes become hard and very painful, and may obstruct breathing ("strangles"). The lymph node abscesses will burst (or can be lanced) in 714 days, releasing thick pus heavily contaminated with S. equi. The horse will usually rapidly recover once abscesses have ruptured.
Although the disease process described above is classic, some horses (especially older animals) will develop a mild, short lasting disease without or with minor lymph node abscessation. This is thought to be the result of partial immunity although this may also result from infection by S. equi of relatively low virulence. Classic strangles is a severe infection that can be fatal, usually because of a variety of complications that occur.
The main and often fatal complications of strangles are:
Bastard strangles, which describes the dissemination of infection to unusual sites other than the lymph nodes draining the throat. For example, abdominal or lung lymph nodes may develop abscesses and rupture, sometimes weeks or longer after the infection seems to have resolved. A brain abscess may rupture causing sudden death or a retropharyngeal lymph node abscess may burst in the throat and the pus will be inhaled into the lung.
Purpura haemorrhagica, which is an immune-mediated acute inflammation of peripheral blood vessels that occurs within 4 weeks of strangles, while the animal is convalescing. It results from the formation of immune complexes between the horse's antibodies and bacterial components. These immune complexes become trapped in capillaries where they cause inflammation, visible in the mucous membranes as pinpoint haemorrhages. These haemorrhages lead to a widespread severe edema of the head, limbs, and other parts of the body. Purpura can also be a complication of routine vaccination.
| Top of Page |
Minor, non-fatal complications include:
Post strangles myocarditis (inflammation of heart muscle), which may follow strangles in a small proportion of horses. An electrocardiogram (ECG) can determine that a horse can return to heavy work or to training after an episode of strangles.
Purulent cellulitis (inflammation of the subcutaneous tissue), which is an unusual occurrence where infection spreads locally in the subcutaneous tissue to the head.
Laryngeal hemiplegia, which involves paralysis of the throat muscles. It is commonly referred to as "roaring". The condition may follow abscessation of cervical lymph nodes.
Anaemia (low red blood cell count), during the convalescent period because of immune-mediated lysis of red blood cells.
Guttural pouch empyaema (filled with pus), which may be concurrent with classic strangles, or follow in the immediate convalescent period. The 2 guttural pouches are large mucous sacs; each is a ventral diverticulum of the Eustachian tube. They are present only in Equidae and are situated between the base of the cranium dorsally and the pharynx ventrally. (3) They open into the nasal pharynx and each has a capacity of about 300 mL. (4) Persistent infection in the guttural pouch may lead to inspissation (drying) of pus and, in some cases, the formation of a solid, stone-like, concretion called a chondroid. Animals that have persistent infection of the guttural pouches become the carriers, the major source of infection to spark outbreaks in susceptible horses with which they are mixed.
Apart from the problem of long-term guttural pouch carriers, discussed below, recovered horses may shed S. equi from their nose and in their saliva for up to 6 weeks following infection. Therefore, isolate all horses that have had strangles from susceptible animals for 6 weeks following infection.
| Top of Page |
Diagnosis and Treatment
Diagnosis can be confirmed by culturing pus from the nose, from abscessated lymph nodes or from the throat of clinically affected horses. Although S. equi isolates are thought to be genetically identical, isolates may vary in virulence and atypical isolates occur, which differ in their sugar tests from typical S. equi.
There is argument among veterinarians as to whether or not to treat an animal with strangles with antibiotics. Many veterinarians think that treatment will impair the development of immunity and may predispose an animal to prolonged infection and to bastard strangles. Treatment of a horse in the early stages of strangles is usually effective and is not associated with untoward effects. The causative agent is highly susceptible to penicillin G. If the disease is more advanced, then most veterinarians will not use antibiotics but rather will recommend nursing care and trying to hasten the development of abscesses (which can be drained) by poulticing. Antibiotics may, however, be used if complications arise.
Prevention of Strangles
Detection of carriers
In recent years, work in the United Kingdom has added substantially to the understanding of the carrier state in strangles. (5) This work has shown that carriers are usually horses that, following recovery from clinical illness, remain with persistent infection of the guttural pouches. This infection is associated with persistent, purulent inflammation in this site or, in some cases, with the presence of chondroids. These carriers can be detected either by culture or by detection of S. equi DNA using the polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test. PCR is a more sensitive test but also is currently more expensive. The combination of these tests may be even more reliable, but is expensive.
Because the organism is adapted to the horse, a system of control based on detection, isolation and treatment of carriers could potentially be used to eradicate the organism on a continent-wide basis. Horse owners and veterinarians have not yet organized to take advantage of this new understanding. However, vaccination with a live vaccine may interfere with the detection and eradication approach to control.
| Top of Page |
A series of 3 nasopharyngeal swabs (e.g., swabs introduced through the nose and collecting material from the back of the throat), evenly spaced over 2 or 3 weeks, will result in the detection of about 60% of carriers using isolation and identification of the organism, or of about 90% of carriers using PCR. For the detection of carriers, the laboratory should use a selective medium (Columbia blood agar with nalidixic acid and colistin).
Investigation of carriers should be done either before a new animal is introduced into a stable or herd, or at least 30 days following recovery of a horse from strangles. Animals should be isolated until there have been 3 consecutive negative cultures and/or PCR reactions.
If an animal is positive, endoscopic evaluation of the guttural pouch is recommended, chondroids removed, and guttural pouches treated by flushing and infusion of 5 million units of penicillin G in 3% gelatin. In addition, these horses should be treated with penicillin G intramuscularly for 7 days, isolated for 30 days, and then retested with the 3 consecutive series of nasopharyngeal swabs and culture. PCR is not usually recommended in these animals because it is so sensitive that it may identify dead bacteria and so give a "positive" reaction. Animals that remain positive should go through a repeat treatment and culture cycle.
This system of identification of carriers by culture and/or PCR, while not 100% reliable, is more reliable than the usual recommendation for the control of strangles. These are to isolate or quarantine new arrivals for 23 weeks, look for evidence of strangles-like upper respiratory tract infection, and carry out one or more nasal swabs that are used for culture. Your veterinarian will be able to give you the current laboratory costs per test for bacteria isolation and for the PCR test. Owners may not be prepared to take this route to control strangles due to the financial costs.
| Top of Page |
Vaccination
Both a killed and a live vaccine are available for the control of strangles. The only killed vaccine currently available in Canada is StrepguardTM by Intervet. Killed vaccines, in general, are administered with an initial series of intramuscular injections followed by an annual booster. There may be adverse reactions at the injection site (marked pain, even frank abscesses). Some animals have even developed purpura haemorrhagica following vaccination. The killed vaccines do not provide complete protection because they do not result in the local, nasopharyngeal antibodies thought to be important in protection, but they do reduce the severity of clinical illness should it occur.
More recently, a live, attenuated S. equi vaccine (PinnacleTM I.N. by Fort Dodge) has been introduced as an intranasal vaccine for the prevention of strangles. The vaccine is administered twice, at an interval of 12 weeks. This approach to vaccination is intuitively more attractive than a killed, intramuscular vaccine since it produces the local antibodies necessary for protective immunity. Because the vaccine is a live but attenuated (using a low virulence organism) S. equi, take care to avoid contamination of injections elsewhere in the horse. Concurrent injection of other vaccines has resulted in S. equi abscesses at these sites, presumably through inadvertent contamination. Therefore, it is strongly recommended to not administer other vaccines or injections at the same time as administering the intranasal vaccine or to be very careful about preventing contamination of injection sites. Other adverse reactions have also been reported. According to the manufacturer, adverse reactions occur at a frequency of about 5 per 10,000 doses. These include submandibular and pharyngeal lymph node swellings, with or without abscessation, purpura haemorrhagica, which may be severe, and even bastard strangles. Since the live organism may persist in the nose, approaches to control that involve detection of carriers may not be effective in horses immunized with this vaccine.
Maybe this will help, anyone with Bastard Strangles or think that their horse has this strain of the disease needs to get vetinary treatment asap.
Introduction
Strangles is a highly contagious and serious infection of horses and other equids caused by the bacterium, Streptococcus equi. The disease is characterized by severe inflammation of the mucosa of the head and throat, with extensive swelling and often rupture of the lymph nodes, which produces large amounts of thick, creamy pus.
Strangles is caused by Streptococcus equi subspecies equi, better known as Streptococcus equi (S. equi). The organism can be isolated from the nose or lymph nodes of affected animals, and is usually readily identified in the laboratory by simple sugar tests.
Transmission and Environmental Survival
Horses of all ages are susceptible, though strangles is most common in animals less than 5 years of age and especially in groups of weanling foals or yearlings. Foals under 4 months of age are usually protected by colostrum-derived passive immunity. (1) S. equi is main-tained in the horse population by carrier horses but does not survive for more than 68 weeks in the environment. Although the organism is not very robust, the infection is highly contagious. Transmission is either by direct or indirect contact of susceptible animals with a diseased horse. Direct contact includes contact with a horse that is incubating strangles or has just recovered from the infection, or with an apparently clinically unaffected long-term carrier. Indirect contact occurs when an animal comes in contact with a contaminated stable (buckets, feed, walls, doors) or pasture environment (grass, fences, but almost always the water troughs), or through flies. (2)
| Top of Page |
Clinical Illness
Susceptible horses develop strangles within 314 days of exposure. (2) Animals show typical signs of a generalized infectious process (depression, inappetence, and fever of 39°C39.5°C). More typically of strangles, horses develop a nasal discharge (initially mucoid, rapidly thickening and purulent), a soft cough and slight but painful swelling between the mandibles, with swelling of the submandibular lymph node. Horses are often seen positioning their heads low and extended, so as to relieve the throat and lymph node pain.
With the progression of the disease, abscesses develop in the submandibular (between the jaw bones) and/or retropharyngeal (at the back of the throat) lymph nodes. The lymph nodes become hard and very painful, and may obstruct breathing ("strangles"). The lymph node abscesses will burst (or can be lanced) in 714 days, releasing thick pus heavily contaminated with S. equi. The horse will usually rapidly recover once abscesses have ruptured.
Although the disease process described above is classic, some horses (especially older animals) will develop a mild, short lasting disease without or with minor lymph node abscessation. This is thought to be the result of partial immunity although this may also result from infection by S. equi of relatively low virulence. Classic strangles is a severe infection that can be fatal, usually because of a variety of complications that occur.
The main and often fatal complications of strangles are:
Bastard strangles, which describes the dissemination of infection to unusual sites other than the lymph nodes draining the throat. For example, abdominal or lung lymph nodes may develop abscesses and rupture, sometimes weeks or longer after the infection seems to have resolved. A brain abscess may rupture causing sudden death or a retropharyngeal lymph node abscess may burst in the throat and the pus will be inhaled into the lung.
Purpura haemorrhagica, which is an immune-mediated acute inflammation of peripheral blood vessels that occurs within 4 weeks of strangles, while the animal is convalescing. It results from the formation of immune complexes between the horse's antibodies and bacterial components. These immune complexes become trapped in capillaries where they cause inflammation, visible in the mucous membranes as pinpoint haemorrhages. These haemorrhages lead to a widespread severe edema of the head, limbs, and other parts of the body. Purpura can also be a complication of routine vaccination.
| Top of Page |
Minor, non-fatal complications include:
Post strangles myocarditis (inflammation of heart muscle), which may follow strangles in a small proportion of horses. An electrocardiogram (ECG) can determine that a horse can return to heavy work or to training after an episode of strangles.
Purulent cellulitis (inflammation of the subcutaneous tissue), which is an unusual occurrence where infection spreads locally in the subcutaneous tissue to the head.
Laryngeal hemiplegia, which involves paralysis of the throat muscles. It is commonly referred to as "roaring". The condition may follow abscessation of cervical lymph nodes.
Anaemia (low red blood cell count), during the convalescent period because of immune-mediated lysis of red blood cells.
Guttural pouch empyaema (filled with pus), which may be concurrent with classic strangles, or follow in the immediate convalescent period. The 2 guttural pouches are large mucous sacs; each is a ventral diverticulum of the Eustachian tube. They are present only in Equidae and are situated between the base of the cranium dorsally and the pharynx ventrally. (3) They open into the nasal pharynx and each has a capacity of about 300 mL. (4) Persistent infection in the guttural pouch may lead to inspissation (drying) of pus and, in some cases, the formation of a solid, stone-like, concretion called a chondroid. Animals that have persistent infection of the guttural pouches become the carriers, the major source of infection to spark outbreaks in susceptible horses with which they are mixed.
Apart from the problem of long-term guttural pouch carriers, discussed below, recovered horses may shed S. equi from their nose and in their saliva for up to 6 weeks following infection. Therefore, isolate all horses that have had strangles from susceptible animals for 6 weeks following infection.
| Top of Page |
Diagnosis and Treatment
Diagnosis can be confirmed by culturing pus from the nose, from abscessated lymph nodes or from the throat of clinically affected horses. Although S. equi isolates are thought to be genetically identical, isolates may vary in virulence and atypical isolates occur, which differ in their sugar tests from typical S. equi.
There is argument among veterinarians as to whether or not to treat an animal with strangles with antibiotics. Many veterinarians think that treatment will impair the development of immunity and may predispose an animal to prolonged infection and to bastard strangles. Treatment of a horse in the early stages of strangles is usually effective and is not associated with untoward effects. The causative agent is highly susceptible to penicillin G. If the disease is more advanced, then most veterinarians will not use antibiotics but rather will recommend nursing care and trying to hasten the development of abscesses (which can be drained) by poulticing. Antibiotics may, however, be used if complications arise.
Prevention of Strangles
Detection of carriers
In recent years, work in the United Kingdom has added substantially to the understanding of the carrier state in strangles. (5) This work has shown that carriers are usually horses that, following recovery from clinical illness, remain with persistent infection of the guttural pouches. This infection is associated with persistent, purulent inflammation in this site or, in some cases, with the presence of chondroids. These carriers can be detected either by culture or by detection of S. equi DNA using the polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test. PCR is a more sensitive test but also is currently more expensive. The combination of these tests may be even more reliable, but is expensive.
Because the organism is adapted to the horse, a system of control based on detection, isolation and treatment of carriers could potentially be used to eradicate the organism on a continent-wide basis. Horse owners and veterinarians have not yet organized to take advantage of this new understanding. However, vaccination with a live vaccine may interfere with the detection and eradication approach to control.
| Top of Page |
A series of 3 nasopharyngeal swabs (e.g., swabs introduced through the nose and collecting material from the back of the throat), evenly spaced over 2 or 3 weeks, will result in the detection of about 60% of carriers using isolation and identification of the organism, or of about 90% of carriers using PCR. For the detection of carriers, the laboratory should use a selective medium (Columbia blood agar with nalidixic acid and colistin).
Investigation of carriers should be done either before a new animal is introduced into a stable or herd, or at least 30 days following recovery of a horse from strangles. Animals should be isolated until there have been 3 consecutive negative cultures and/or PCR reactions.
If an animal is positive, endoscopic evaluation of the guttural pouch is recommended, chondroids removed, and guttural pouches treated by flushing and infusion of 5 million units of penicillin G in 3% gelatin. In addition, these horses should be treated with penicillin G intramuscularly for 7 days, isolated for 30 days, and then retested with the 3 consecutive series of nasopharyngeal swabs and culture. PCR is not usually recommended in these animals because it is so sensitive that it may identify dead bacteria and so give a "positive" reaction. Animals that remain positive should go through a repeat treatment and culture cycle.
This system of identification of carriers by culture and/or PCR, while not 100% reliable, is more reliable than the usual recommendation for the control of strangles. These are to isolate or quarantine new arrivals for 23 weeks, look for evidence of strangles-like upper respiratory tract infection, and carry out one or more nasal swabs that are used for culture. Your veterinarian will be able to give you the current laboratory costs per test for bacteria isolation and for the PCR test. Owners may not be prepared to take this route to control strangles due to the financial costs.
| Top of Page |
Vaccination
Both a killed and a live vaccine are available for the control of strangles. The only killed vaccine currently available in Canada is StrepguardTM by Intervet. Killed vaccines, in general, are administered with an initial series of intramuscular injections followed by an annual booster. There may be adverse reactions at the injection site (marked pain, even frank abscesses). Some animals have even developed purpura haemorrhagica following vaccination. The killed vaccines do not provide complete protection because they do not result in the local, nasopharyngeal antibodies thought to be important in protection, but they do reduce the severity of clinical illness should it occur.
More recently, a live, attenuated S. equi vaccine (PinnacleTM I.N. by Fort Dodge) has been introduced as an intranasal vaccine for the prevention of strangles. The vaccine is administered twice, at an interval of 12 weeks. This approach to vaccination is intuitively more attractive than a killed, intramuscular vaccine since it produces the local antibodies necessary for protective immunity. Because the vaccine is a live but attenuated (using a low virulence organism) S. equi, take care to avoid contamination of injections elsewhere in the horse. Concurrent injection of other vaccines has resulted in S. equi abscesses at these sites, presumably through inadvertent contamination. Therefore, it is strongly recommended to not administer other vaccines or injections at the same time as administering the intranasal vaccine or to be very careful about preventing contamination of injection sites. Other adverse reactions have also been reported. According to the manufacturer, adverse reactions occur at a frequency of about 5 per 10,000 doses. These include submandibular and pharyngeal lymph node swellings, with or without abscessation, purpura haemorrhagica, which may be severe, and even bastard strangles. Since the live organism may persist in the nose, approaches to control that involve detection of carriers may not be effective in horses immunized with this vaccine.
Haniki
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I didn't realise there was such a thing as Bastard Strangles, I thought Honeypots was just very cross about Strangles. Please excuse my ignorance, I feel a right numpty now! It was strangles The Conquest centre had. I will read your post Indianas_Mum when I have washed the dye off my hair in a minute.
Tierra
Well-Known Member
Yea theres quite a difference between bastard strangles and strangles. Most horses recover perfectly well from the normal strain of strangles. Sadly, the fatality rate for bastard strangles is very high... i seem to remember over 90%
The thing many people dont realise is that in the case of normal strangles, you should let the horse's own immune system kick in and deal with it. Treating with anti-biotics, although it can increase the recovery rate, is also strongly connected with the development of bastard strangles. Hence, most equine vets will NOT and should not prescribe anti biotics for the treatment of common strangles.
Strangles can be distressing for the owner with the typical symptoms being the snotty nose, swollen glands, sometimes absesses forming round the head and a raised temperature.
However, unless the horse's temperature rises to dangerous levels, its not that serious and horses should recover fine with a % of them developing life long immunity and most developing a limited immunity which will last a few years. The normal, common strain is only really worrying for the very old or very young horses.
Anti biotics should only be given when the horse's temperature is reaching critically high levels which can result in various internal damage. Otherwise, it should be left alone. Owner can help by keeping nasal passages clean, feeding from haynets or raising water buckets can also help and, of course, following the correct quarentine.
Treating with anti biotics can result in internal absesses breaking out. Its often more comfortable when you can indeed see them around the head, as at least you know where they are. Absesses forming on the internal organs is usually fatal. They choose to operate in some cases but i understand its quite rare as the chance of success is really low.
So yea... prognosis is very poor but the chances of strangles developing into it's bastard variety can be hugely reduced by not treating it with anti bis.... Id urge and even beg people to avoid this at all costs
The thing many people dont realise is that in the case of normal strangles, you should let the horse's own immune system kick in and deal with it. Treating with anti-biotics, although it can increase the recovery rate, is also strongly connected with the development of bastard strangles. Hence, most equine vets will NOT and should not prescribe anti biotics for the treatment of common strangles.
Strangles can be distressing for the owner with the typical symptoms being the snotty nose, swollen glands, sometimes absesses forming round the head and a raised temperature.
However, unless the horse's temperature rises to dangerous levels, its not that serious and horses should recover fine with a % of them developing life long immunity and most developing a limited immunity which will last a few years. The normal, common strain is only really worrying for the very old or very young horses.
Anti biotics should only be given when the horse's temperature is reaching critically high levels which can result in various internal damage. Otherwise, it should be left alone. Owner can help by keeping nasal passages clean, feeding from haynets or raising water buckets can also help and, of course, following the correct quarentine.
Treating with anti biotics can result in internal absesses breaking out. Its often more comfortable when you can indeed see them around the head, as at least you know where they are. Absesses forming on the internal organs is usually fatal. They choose to operate in some cases but i understand its quite rare as the chance of success is really low.
So yea... prognosis is very poor but the chances of strangles developing into it's bastard variety can be hugely reduced by not treating it with anti bis.... Id urge and even beg people to avoid this at all costs
Rockchick_uk
Well-Known Member
Well said Tierra!
As i said Indi had the Bastard form of the disease and was isolated in his stable 24/7 for 6 and ahalf months, he had his gutteral pouches flushed and endless endoscopes monitoring the disease.
3 days after diagnosis my vet had to perform a emergency traceoctomy as Indi was dying on his stable floor, the abscesses on his lungs were that big that they were making it very hard for the lungs to inflate and the ones inside his throat were cutting off the air supply to his nose and mouth. Once the incision in to the throat was made with the knife just hearing him breath and inflate his lungs was amazing, even the vet was shocked as he believed we wouldnt be able to save him.
Indi did suffer a very mild stroke during his 2nd week in isolation due to a very small abcess on his brain (we were very lucky it was small otherwise a larger one would of caused a larger bleed thus killing him).
But my lad is a fighter and he didnt give up and as long as he didnt i wasnt going to either.
The day he was diagnosed i had only had him 5 days!!
Can you now understand why hes so special?
Any form of strangles is horrendous for horse and owner and i deeply sympathise with anyone who has to go through it thats why is really ryles me when people moan about not being able to go hacking or to shows when there is a infected horse in the area. NOONE chooses to go through this, this disease is a KILLER and everyone in the equestrian world needs to understand that we have to support anyone who has the misfortune to come accross it.
As i said Indi had the Bastard form of the disease and was isolated in his stable 24/7 for 6 and ahalf months, he had his gutteral pouches flushed and endless endoscopes monitoring the disease.
3 days after diagnosis my vet had to perform a emergency traceoctomy as Indi was dying on his stable floor, the abscesses on his lungs were that big that they were making it very hard for the lungs to inflate and the ones inside his throat were cutting off the air supply to his nose and mouth. Once the incision in to the throat was made with the knife just hearing him breath and inflate his lungs was amazing, even the vet was shocked as he believed we wouldnt be able to save him.
Indi did suffer a very mild stroke during his 2nd week in isolation due to a very small abcess on his brain (we were very lucky it was small otherwise a larger one would of caused a larger bleed thus killing him).
But my lad is a fighter and he didnt give up and as long as he didnt i wasnt going to either.
The day he was diagnosed i had only had him 5 days!!
Can you now understand why hes so special?
Any form of strangles is horrendous for horse and owner and i deeply sympathise with anyone who has to go through it thats why is really ryles me when people moan about not being able to go hacking or to shows when there is a infected horse in the area. NOONE chooses to go through this, this disease is a KILLER and everyone in the equestrian world needs to understand that we have to support anyone who has the misfortune to come accross it.
Tierra
Well-Known Member
He sure must be blessed. Im pretty sure that the fatality rate of the bastard variety is above 90%
You're also rather lucky your vet agree'd to try and treat it i think!
The thought of an abcess on the brain is just mortifying. Your poor poor boy.
Jack had strangles a couple of years back and all the horses on the yard had to have a ton of swabs to ensure none of them were carriers. His was a completly uncomlicated case though and after about 3 weeks, he was fit and well. Our vet did, very reluctantly, give one mare on the yard anti biotics, but her temperature was critically high and he was worried about internal organ failure. Thankfully, she recovered with no problems but the vet really wasnt happy about having to administer them.
You're also rather lucky your vet agree'd to try and treat it i think!
The thought of an abcess on the brain is just mortifying. Your poor poor boy.
Jack had strangles a couple of years back and all the horses on the yard had to have a ton of swabs to ensure none of them were carriers. His was a completly uncomlicated case though and after about 3 weeks, he was fit and well. Our vet did, very reluctantly, give one mare on the yard anti biotics, but her temperature was critically high and he was worried about internal organ failure. Thankfully, she recovered with no problems but the vet really wasnt happy about having to administer them.
Tia
Well-Known Member
Oh HP, I hope this isn't what your pony with the swollen jaw has
. Bastard strangles is hellish and unfortunately has a very high fatality risk.
As Tierra says, it is generally the use of Penicillin G at an inappropriate stage of the condition, which very often causes strangles to become bastard strangles. Strangles in itself is very rarely dangerous if left to run it's course; it's very often, although not always, when the condition is interfered with that complications arise.
As Tierra says, it is generally the use of Penicillin G at an inappropriate stage of the condition, which very often causes strangles to become bastard strangles. Strangles in itself is very rarely dangerous if left to run it's course; it's very often, although not always, when the condition is interfered with that complications arise.
JanetGeorge
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
The thing many people dont realise is that in the case of normal strangles, you should let the horse's own immune system kick in and deal with it. Treating with anti-biotics, although it can increase the recovery rate, is also strongly connected with the development of bastard strangles. Hence, most equine vets will NOT and should not prescribe anti biotics for the treatment of common strangles.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is actually quite outdated advice. There is NO evidence to support the once-held view that treatment with antibiotics can predispose to bastard strangles - IF the timing is right.
If strangles is caught early - before abcesses form - then vigorous treatment with antibiotics and anti-inflammatories can stop the disease in its tracks, and save the horse a LOT of suffering. It should also DECREASE the risk of bastard strangles (which is purely a dissemination of the infection and the abcesses to other parts of the body in a severe infection.)
Once abcesses have formed, treatment with antibiotics can delay the abcesses from bursting, so may be contra-indicated at that stage UNLESS the horse is very sick!
I have only had one case of strangles in the past 20 years and - despite having a number of horses including youngsters and oldies - it didn't spread. The horse had returned from Liverpool University after treatment with immuno-suppressants to the livery yard he had been at for several years. I bought him 2 weeks later and he came home with a horse of mine who'd been there all hunting season. He arrived with a slightly runny nose and seeming slightly off-colour and he and the horse he travelled with were immediately isolated. In the morning he had a thicker discharge and wasn't eating, so called the vet immediately who suspected strangles because of his 'history' and started immediate treatment with high dose Abs and anti-inflammatories. Both horses were kept strictly isolated. The second horse did NOT develop abcesses and the sick horse recovered fully in under 7 days - although he was very poorly for a couple of days.
I warned the livery yard who were at a loss to understand how he'd got it - but 2 horses recently arrived there from Ireland came down with strangles 2 weeks later. Further investigations revealed they had a carrier on the yard - the horse who'd been treated with immuno-suppressants of course was the first 'victim' followed by the two Irish horses who had no immunity. Not one of the other 30 odd horses on the yard got it - they all had a healthy immunity - as did the horse who travelled on the lorry with the ill horse.
If yards would only routinely isolate new horses coming onto a yard, strangles 'outbreaks' could be avoided in many cases.
The thing many people dont realise is that in the case of normal strangles, you should let the horse's own immune system kick in and deal with it. Treating with anti-biotics, although it can increase the recovery rate, is also strongly connected with the development of bastard strangles. Hence, most equine vets will NOT and should not prescribe anti biotics for the treatment of common strangles.
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This is actually quite outdated advice. There is NO evidence to support the once-held view that treatment with antibiotics can predispose to bastard strangles - IF the timing is right.
If strangles is caught early - before abcesses form - then vigorous treatment with antibiotics and anti-inflammatories can stop the disease in its tracks, and save the horse a LOT of suffering. It should also DECREASE the risk of bastard strangles (which is purely a dissemination of the infection and the abcesses to other parts of the body in a severe infection.)
Once abcesses have formed, treatment with antibiotics can delay the abcesses from bursting, so may be contra-indicated at that stage UNLESS the horse is very sick!
I have only had one case of strangles in the past 20 years and - despite having a number of horses including youngsters and oldies - it didn't spread. The horse had returned from Liverpool University after treatment with immuno-suppressants to the livery yard he had been at for several years. I bought him 2 weeks later and he came home with a horse of mine who'd been there all hunting season. He arrived with a slightly runny nose and seeming slightly off-colour and he and the horse he travelled with were immediately isolated. In the morning he had a thicker discharge and wasn't eating, so called the vet immediately who suspected strangles because of his 'history' and started immediate treatment with high dose Abs and anti-inflammatories. Both horses were kept strictly isolated. The second horse did NOT develop abcesses and the sick horse recovered fully in under 7 days - although he was very poorly for a couple of days.
I warned the livery yard who were at a loss to understand how he'd got it - but 2 horses recently arrived there from Ireland came down with strangles 2 weeks later. Further investigations revealed they had a carrier on the yard - the horse who'd been treated with immuno-suppressants of course was the first 'victim' followed by the two Irish horses who had no immunity. Not one of the other 30 odd horses on the yard got it - they all had a healthy immunity - as did the horse who travelled on the lorry with the ill horse.
If yards would only routinely isolate new horses coming onto a yard, strangles 'outbreaks' could be avoided in many cases.
Tierra
Well-Known Member
Thats strange, i'll have to have a read round the net since it was only hmm last year that our horses had it and our vets absolutly refused to touch with anti-bis and these are some quite well known equine vets in the UK
We were aware at a pretty early stage that there was a problem and the strangles virus was identified in the said mare before she actually started getting snotty or absessy (she was just off and after checking, she had a slightly raised temperature). It progressed quite fast from that stage.
Same issue when strangles broke out on our new yard over summer. Although that never actually spread far beyond a couple of youngsters.
Guess its the usual with vets not being consistent between themselves
Same issue when strangles broke out on our new yard over summer. Although that never actually spread far beyond a couple of youngsters.
Guess its the usual with vets not being consistent between themselves
brighteyes
Pooh-Bah
Absolutely not the same - and strangles itself varies from slight/no symptoms to full blown abscesses. 'It' came to my yard and one old pony was very poorly, but didn't abscess, one younger (6yo) got a huge sublingual abscess (under tongue area, burst out behind chin-groove) my 11yo had a slight cough and runny nose and an 8yo didn't show any symptoms at all. By the time we had identified what it was, they had all mingled and presumably had chance to infect one another. We had lent the old pony out to some very knowledgeable people, who misled us badly on the severity of a virus they'd had at theirs
. Anyway, no AB's were given to the abscess pony but our old lady had a couple of courses. She developed guttural pouch empyema and our vet gave us an extremely guarded to hopeless prognosis. Short story - she recovered, but many I know were not so lucky - including one pony at the home I lent ours to
. I think her gp got infected, too, and the infection eventually damaged the major blood vessels which run very close to the gp.
So, it's rarely the strangles which is fatal - more the secondary complications, I think. We had a very lucky escape.
So, it's rarely the strangles which is fatal - more the secondary complications, I think. We had a very lucky escape.
Honeypots
Well-Known Member
Thanks everybody..
Yes Tia..I'ts my Ellie cob. She's very unwell atm. We're a bit stumped though as she has had no symptoms (until yesterday) except these damn swellings... She's been bright and well, eating, drinking, grazing etc and has been in with my 5 others and next door to two other who are all 100% fit and well (atm). No horse has left the yard in over a month.Yesterday, she stopped eating, her heart is racing and she's miserable. Her temperature is only slightly raised but her bloods indicate that she's fighting a virus and her white blood count is way up. She has oedema under her belly and heart failure has been mentioned too. She has not coughed, sneezed and has no snot, pus or discharge. In 2 days she's done one mini poo!! Yesterday it was jet propelled liquid!
I'm afraid I'm babbling a bit and this may not make much sense..sorry..
Any advice for getting her to eat would be appreciated and some positive/healing vibes if theres any going
Yes Tia..I'ts my Ellie cob. She's very unwell atm. We're a bit stumped though as she has had no symptoms (until yesterday) except these damn swellings... She's been bright and well, eating, drinking, grazing etc and has been in with my 5 others and next door to two other who are all 100% fit and well (atm). No horse has left the yard in over a month.Yesterday, she stopped eating, her heart is racing and she's miserable. Her temperature is only slightly raised but her bloods indicate that she's fighting a virus and her white blood count is way up. She has oedema under her belly and heart failure has been mentioned too. She has not coughed, sneezed and has no snot, pus or discharge. In 2 days she's done one mini poo!! Yesterday it was jet propelled liquid!
I'm afraid I'm babbling a bit and this may not make much sense..sorry..
Any advice for getting her to eat would be appreciated and some positive/healing vibes if theres any going
Tierra
Well-Known Member
You mind me asking where the swellings are and how long shes had them now?
If shes had them for a while, id imagine the chances of it being bastard strangles being low... purely because ive been told it tends to be a very viscious condition and they usually lose the fight quite fast
I also think (although im sure people will correct me if im wrong) that the vet should be able to identify strangles very quickly from the blood tests and she's obviously had some.
Id be keen to find out exactly what that oedema is... as in whether it is indeed an oedema and just water or fluid of some description or whether its more like a haemotoma and is blood. It IS possible for them to get oedemas in the chest area... my boy had one after the front of a horse rug burned him... it started on his chest and dropped down to between his front legs which made it look scarily like it was in the chest cavity.
Has the vet seen this and what was his thoughts on it? Oedemas can usually be hot and cold compressed to help them disperse but a haematoma in his chest cavity could indicate a real problem. (This was investigated when my boys oedema appeared as he has a heart murmour and the YO at the time went mental thinking he had ruptured something and blood was leaking into the chest cavity).
I havent followed your threads, how long has she been sick? any other obvious symptoms? I hope she improves either way
If shes had them for a while, id imagine the chances of it being bastard strangles being low... purely because ive been told it tends to be a very viscious condition and they usually lose the fight quite fast
I also think (although im sure people will correct me if im wrong) that the vet should be able to identify strangles very quickly from the blood tests and she's obviously had some.
Id be keen to find out exactly what that oedema is... as in whether it is indeed an oedema and just water or fluid of some description or whether its more like a haemotoma and is blood. It IS possible for them to get oedemas in the chest area... my boy had one after the front of a horse rug burned him... it started on his chest and dropped down to between his front legs which made it look scarily like it was in the chest cavity.
Has the vet seen this and what was his thoughts on it? Oedemas can usually be hot and cold compressed to help them disperse but a haematoma in his chest cavity could indicate a real problem. (This was investigated when my boys oedema appeared as he has a heart murmour and the YO at the time went mental thinking he had ruptured something and blood was leaking into the chest cavity).
I havent followed your threads, how long has she been sick? any other obvious symptoms? I hope she improves either way
Honeypots
Well-Known Member
Hi..thanks
She's had these swollen glands under her jaw to start and then along her cheek (throatlatch area) for around a month. She had no signs of illness apart from they were tender for a couple of days. We had just introduced 2 ponies to the herd ( they'd been at home with me for a month previous) and thought she'd been kicked because she was very wary of one of them (very unlike her). I'd also opened her field out onto her winter field with lots of grass and thought maybe it was overproduction of saliva.. It was only a couple of days ago when I went to feed, she was on her own and refused her feed. The vet was coming the follwing day anyway (christmas eve) so I got him to look at her. By then she was refusing all food and her breathing was quite laboured. She laso had a swelling on her belly just behing her front legs. Her temp was slightly raised but not overly and she had the squits. Today she has still not eaten but is drinking. Her breathing is still rapid but slightly less shallow but she has a further swelling nearer her udders.
No heart murmer, no cough, no snot, lumps aren't painful and are hard.
She never wears rugs and lives out 24/7 and has never been sick or sorry till now.. just wish she'd eat..she keeps shifting from foot to foot and gently grunting
She's had these swollen glands under her jaw to start and then along her cheek (throatlatch area) for around a month. She had no signs of illness apart from they were tender for a couple of days. We had just introduced 2 ponies to the herd ( they'd been at home with me for a month previous) and thought she'd been kicked because she was very wary of one of them (very unlike her). I'd also opened her field out onto her winter field with lots of grass and thought maybe it was overproduction of saliva.. It was only a couple of days ago when I went to feed, she was on her own and refused her feed. The vet was coming the follwing day anyway (christmas eve) so I got him to look at her. By then she was refusing all food and her breathing was quite laboured. She laso had a swelling on her belly just behing her front legs. Her temp was slightly raised but not overly and she had the squits. Today she has still not eaten but is drinking. Her breathing is still rapid but slightly less shallow but she has a further swelling nearer her udders.
No heart murmer, no cough, no snot, lumps aren't painful and are hard.
She never wears rugs and lives out 24/7 and has never been sick or sorry till now.. just wish she'd eat..she keeps shifting from foot to foot and gently grunting