Bates Caprilli?

blackcob

blackcob

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Anyone have a Bates saddle, specifically the Caprilli GP or VSD? Any comments with regards the interchangeable gullets or CAIR system?

Looking for a new saddle for the beastie and have a traditional flocked WH/VSD leather saddle at the moment so I've never encountered the gullet systems before. Keep getting drawn back to the Bates saddles and my saddler has a few of these in stock second hand...

Beastie is medium-wide and flat as a table with no withers and a massive shoulder.
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Before I pay for the call out fee for the saddler, do we think one of these would be suitable?
 
flat as a table makes me think they won't fit... as i presume Bates are the same tree as Wintec (both made by Bates and have gullet system etc). Wintecs are the worst fitting saddles on my horse as he's got a straight back, and the saddles have a 'banana' tree...

if you've got any friends with wintecs, try one of them on... x
 
I have the Bates GP.

I cannot recommend the cair system enough - it's like riding on air when you first get the saddle. It's really comfortable and also really helps the horse.

The interchangable gullets - put it this way: I originally had the saddle on a 15hh wide cob, but found that the saddle was too long for him; so when we bought my 17.3hh, medium width warmblood, we asked a saddler to alter the saddle to fit him. It was done easily and it fits new horse like a dream.

The saddle is, apparently, better for men, because of the shape of the seat, but I have always found it really comfortable.

Sparkle, our mare, was XWide and built like your horse (table back, no withers), and she had to have a made to measure saddle because it was impossible to find anything that didn't slide around on her, even if the right size, because of the shape of her versus the shape of a lot of the saddles that would fit her. She ended up with a thorogood as well.
 
Bugger.
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Banana-tree is what I want to avoid as she's flat as a pancake! I don't think I know of anyone with a Wintec, I'll have to raid the riding school tack room and see if they've got one I can try on her.

Just to demonstrate how flat we're dealing with here... it's like trying to strap a saddle to a space hopper.
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Thank you for your input Lanky.
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I've never ridden in a CAIR saddle and must admit to being very curious, current saddle is quite an old wool-flocked thing made of properly solid old leather and I dream of having something to pillow my bum a bit.
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It's not so pillowy that you feel detached from the horse, though? I did once ride in a foam-flocked saddle that was so puffy that I felt a million miles away from the horse's back which was my small reservation about the CAIR.

Unsurprisingly her saddle slips forwards constantly, despite the best efforts of my saddler and his unending point straps and bodged girthing arrangements, so I'm willing to give anything a try at the moment and finally have a budget that stretches beyond ancient second hand saddles.

I am dreading the custom-built route.
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She's got more shape than our mare used to have.
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I don't envy you one bit.
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I must admit she's in spring fatness mode there and does improve slightly over winter, especially when hunting, but all the muzzles in the world don't stop her from becoming flat and spherical in the summer and then I really struggle with the saddle slipping.
 
With our mare, when I first started riding her (husband owned her before I was on the scene), I remember once cantering her round the school and ended up with one leg under her belly and one leg over her back as the saddle had slipped round to the side so far; she came back to walk and I just slid off and hoped no one had seen! I learnt my lesson from then on!

The bates isn't puffy as such. It does take some riding-in so to speak, but you definitely don't feel detached from the horse at all. The bates wouldn't have suited my mare, so I don't think it will suit yours, sadly.
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Argh.
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It's so frustrating. I'm not sure I can deal with asking the saddler to come out and just give me anything that fits again as I'll either end up with a reasonably well fitting but hideous ancient old thing again or he'll whip out a brand new £2000 saddle and declare that it's the only one that fits at all!
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I suppose I want a brand name/model in mind so I know what budget I'm looking at and won't be swayed by shiny expensive new ones that he waves at me.
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The only others I think I could afford would be the likes of Collegiate or the cheaper Ideals.
 
Wintec was never any good for sparkle either.

She had a made to measure one, like I said, and her thorogood one.

I would try and get the opinion of a couple of saddlers in this case, because you could end up spending a lot of money when there is no need, especially if she is medium-wide. Ours was complicated because she needed Extra Wide.
 
I am so against Cair its unreal.. But it stems from a very VERY bad experience with cair, where the fill tubes actually turned down into the horses back (unbeknown to us, as they could only be felt once there was weight on the saddle.) The horse in questions was never ridden again due to insufferable back pain.

Lou x
 
I'm not a fan. I love them to ride in, but for the horses back I wouldnt touch them. Run your fingers along the inside of the gullet next to the panel, and you will feel the stirrup bars. This will transfer through to the horse, and Goddy was sore round the stirrup bars everytime he had his back checked with his bates. Also, compressed air is alot harder than compressed wool, think of a blown up crisp packet
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They are also not as adjustable as people think, as you can only change the front which means the gullet at the back is the same width.
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Fine if your horse is a Medium, or maybe one fitting either side, but thats it
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I have one on tbx as she has changed weight and added muscle its been ideal.Shes in med wide and is very fine light weight, although I love the saddle you need to question if it will be big enough.
Whe we had similiar size cob I found ideal saddle fitted flat backed and no wither horse.Can they bring selection?
 
Do you think an Ideal is the way to go? I'm not sure I can afford one new but my saddler is listed as their stockist for this county and I can only hope they've got some second hand ones. I can ring on Monday and find out.
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Any particular model you'd recommend? I've always gone for a VSD style for our occasional forays into showing but to be honest I'm tempted to pack that in and get a proper knee-blocked GP that I won't fall out of when hunting.
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I have big RID's and usually find that GP saddle flaps interfere with their shoulders. You may be better sticking with the VSD/WH version of whatever saddle make you decided on if your horse has larger than average shoulders, just a thought.
 
We /owner bought gp second hand for about £500.She had previously been in wide wintec the difference was amazing.It was very comfortable but the mare was like sitting on armchair anyway.Bates new are nearly £800 so good second hand ideal might be best for your cob.I love bates on my tb but I cant see it being wide enough for your horse.
 
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