Bates saddles - opinions?

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Stroppy Mare

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What do people think to bates saddles on a wide native back?

Also, how easy would it be to get the cair system removed and flock or flair installed - what would be best given the adjustible saddle?
 
Probably best to steer clear, my boy isn't a native but has a wide, flat back. I was sold a bates caprilli jump saddle which made him sore, I was then told (by my new saddler!) that bates was a bad choice for him as the shape of the tree is better suited to narrower builds. He is now fitted with an ideal jessica which fits him really well. It's a dressage saddle but the grandee is the jump/gp version on the same tree. I love it, so comfy! Was also recommended pessoa but needs to be a newer one with a wide gullet.
 
My mare was the same shape and close contact saddles never really fitted, someone recommended a Farringdon ( I believe they are Idea saddles now ) it was a super fit and never slipped - but again every horse is different.
 
I thought as much, thanks.

I tried my friends Ideal Jessica on her and it wasnt wide enough at her skinniest :( (shes currently fatter now than what she was then - cant see ribs but can feel them easily at the moment at approx 490kg, at her skinniest could see last ribs moving at 460kg).
 
Why would you buy a saddle with Cair & then have it removed? Go for the best saddle for your type of horse. I have a Bates Innova dressage saddle with cair & I love it but my horse isn't a native.
 
Bates didn't work for my Welsh x. He has big shoulders, though to look at him you wouldn't say so. The points interfered with his shoulder movement. I had the gullets as wide as it would go and still not wide enough.

Sad as it was a very comfortable saddle - just not for him. :) Now have him in a WOW with cub panels as he's not happy with the feel of the air bags. Am thinking along the same lines for the Friesian. :)
 
I had a bates saddle which you could change the gullets on for my welsh cob. It didn't work for him, i found the front of the saddle was tipping forward and the back of the saddle wouldn't even be touching his back! Tried putting a narrower gullet in to bring the front up but it was too narrow for him then. Had saddler to have a look and he said the saddle was totally unsuitable for that type of horse (hes not even that wide and he has more prominent withers than a lot of cobs). I now have a jefferies hawk event saddle (I think thats what it is!) which is much more comfortable to ride in and seems to fit him a lot better. My only critisism is it tends to go a bit wonky when your riding unless your girth is done up really tight.
 
Ok thanks, everyones just reitterating my thoughts (i just loved the bates when i rode in them so thought id check since it was only on one horse that i rode in one on). Back to the drawing board!
 
As far as I know, Bates are built on the same shape tree as Wintec - please correct me if I'm wrong - and Wintec is the wrong shape for my boy, who is a TBX but very broad across the back and shoulders (think he's part ID). Did check the gullet size, and according to the gauge he was wearing the right size of gullet, but the saddle still tipped backwards. Now got a GP saddle with a cob-shaped tree, and it fits him perfectly :)
 
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