Bates/Wintec Isabell and Cair/Flocked

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Billabongchick

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I am looking at getting one or other of these saddles. The Bates only comes with Cair I believe whereas the Wintec version can be flocked. Have heard varying reports about Cair- horse is an ex racer and wide shouldered/broad hind end but narrower around wither/middle section. I have been using a Prolite with front shims with current saddle but am not happy with the fit. Tried a friends Wintec version on her just to gauge tree shape and it looks good to me.

Any advice from anyone who has these? What would you go for? I prefer a leather saddle as some of the synthetics look a bit tatty after a while and this will be my 'everyday' saddle but obviously the cost is a big factor. I have my saddle fitter out next week so will get her advice before buying but would be interested in other feedback especially re Cair so I can make my decision thanks.
 
Thank you for the link; interesting. If I had my way I'd have the leather Bates but with flocking but if they won't supply it like that in the first place it's a heck of a lot of money to pay out to get it changed to flock I'd imagine on top of what is already massively stretching my budget. Anyone else got one?
 
Thanks but I have a very good price for a new one through a friend! Will be going 2nd hand for the Working hunter type saddle though which will replace her Event saddle though so if anyone is selling an Ideal or Farrington WH or VSD in brown I'm interested!
 
I went onto the Bates stand at Badminton to see the New Innova Monoflap + it was amazing. They explained how the Cair and the Risers worked as I too had some reservations. They demonstrated the gullets and Risers- and explained how the Cair worked. When you stand on a special board with the Airbags attached you couldn't feel the foam you just balanced. Apparently the foam becomes irrelevant as soon as the bag is sealed.
A couple of friends use Bates and wouldn't use anything else. I would see if there is a saddler near you who sells/ fits them and get them to go through it with you. The "bit of bath sponge in a plastic bag" just sound like a lack of understanding as to how it works. Got someone coming out next week so we will see.
 
I've just bought two Wintec 500's for my boys - a flocked one and a cair. ^ the same guy ^ as in the TO link is coming out to replace the cair with flock before I will let it touch my boy's back.....
 
I had the same reservations about Cair before actually using it. I love it and the horse is far happier in the Bates with Cair than she ever was in any other saddle. However saddlers generally are against it because it doesn't need reflocking and the inserts and gullet plates that you get for the Bates saddles mean that you can do the alterations yourself, without a saddler, so they don't get to make any money from it. Cynical maybe but I think you need to try it for yourself before making judgement. If you try it and don't like it, fair enough but at least give it a try first. Like any saddle, if it's not fitted properly then it will cause back problems. That's not the fault of cair or flock, it's because it's not been fitted properly!
 
Cair works for some but not for others. My friends small tour dressage horse is in the Wintec Isabel with Cair and competes successfully at Inter 1
 
Billabongchick said:
Thank you for the link; interesting. If I had my way I'd have the leather Bates but with flocking but if they won't supply it like that in the first place it's a heck of a lot of money to pay out to get it changed to flock I'd imagine on top of what is already massively stretching my budget. Anyone else got one?
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You can get an isabell werth dressage one from ride away with flock for 1400 just now. I keep looking and drooling.

I rode my new horse in her cair bates AP saddle when I tried her and I really really liked it.
 
Bates are a nice saddle made with good quality leather however although they are advertised that they will fit any horse but they don't. Just because you can change the gullet to a variety of widths does not mean that you will make it fit your horse. The gullet width is not the only thing that needs to fit. I had a Bates years ago & it actually fit the horse I had at the time, it never fit any other one though.
 
not a fan of Cair my self and have had a fair bit of experience of them and I don't personally know of anyone who has stuck with them, I deal with 3 master saddlers and 4 saddle fitters for my own and others horses and non of them rate the cair system and a couple of them hate it, what about looking at the Kent and masters saddles All the saddlers and fitters I deal with rate them as a good quality saddle for the money and they don't break the bank
 
I've had 2 different Bates saddles for Fabio, currently have the Bates Isabell Werth with Cair and he goes well in it. I have an Albion jump saddle and he goes no better or worse with that which is flocked. I've stood on the board with the cair panels on too and thought it felt fine.

You still need a saddler to fit them though. I've had to have shims put in to lift the front of mine. Does make it easier though having the changeable gullet as does mean you can get it altered to fit most horses, will always be exceptions though.

You can pick them up fairly reasonably secondhand off ebay/preloved. I'd always go for Bates over Wintec as think the synthetics look a bit cheap (ones i've seen do anyway!)
 
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