BBC NEWS - Ben Maher Sued.

SnowOnSnow said:
And that's probably why people chose to have him act as their agent. But he won't have beendoing it for free, he'll have had an agreed commission.
To give yourself backhanders over and above this through fraudulent means (if he HAS) is totally and utterly inexcusable.
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It appears he, of course, got a good commission on one deal, quote from article below. I am sure he would always be paid a fee...

"It describes an invoice of $50,000 for third party commission on the deal as "a sham"."
 
SnowOnSnow said:
He can be as successful as he likes with ponies, lots are, but without the horses at senior level he'd be nowhere. He had nothing to ride and the Phillips answered his advert in HH begging for rides. They've treated him like one of the family and if he really has ripped them off its disgraceful.
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Yes I agree. If has ripped them off it is disgraceful. The saying 'don't bite the hand that feeds you comes to mind.'
 
I know of a family that had their event horse with a top male rider. It wasn't for sale but the rider told them someone had offered £50k for it. They didn't want to sell so decided to go and collect horse. When they got there the horses legs had been clipped for a scan and it looked like the horse had already been vetted in readiness for sale. They put horse with another top event rider who was more trustworthy and when they decided to sell some time later they got over £100k! This obviously goes on all the time. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Ben Maher has been up to no good and has bitten the hand that fed him. Sometimes the private persona is nothing like the public persona.
 
SnowOnSnow said:
He can be as successful as he likes with ponies, lots are, but without the horses at senior level he'd be nowhere. He had nothing to ride and the Phillips answered his advert in HH begging for rides. They've treated him like one of the family and if he really has ripped them off its disgraceful.
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I agree that if these allegations are true then its disgraceful, but I don't think you can say he'd be nowhere without the Phillips, Ben was very successful in young riders as well as ponies and had won the Hickstead Derby and Speed Derby at 22, which a lot of top riders don't achieve in a lifetime. Their partnership has been extremely successful but being very talented and from a well off family he was certainly not reliant solely on the Phillip's, they boosted his horse power significantly but I imagine it was an arrangement that worked very well for both parties. Such a shame if true and does happen all too often in showjumping.
 
Pippin79 said:
I agree that if these allegations are true then its disgraceful, but I don't think you can say he'd be nowhere without the Phillips, Ben was very successful in young riders as well as ponies and had won the Hickstead Derby and Speed Derby at 22, which a lot of top riders don't achieve in a lifetime. Their partnership has been extremely successful but being very talented and from a well off family he was certainly not reliant solely on the Phillip's, they boosted his horse power significantly but I imagine it was an arrangement that worked very well for both parties. Such a shame if true and does happen all too often in showjumping.
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It is not only show jumping and it is not only in GB. It is multi discipline, world wide and well known.
 
I wonder when the trial will conclude, can't be that much longer to go now. TBH if it was true, you'd have thought he'd try and settle it out of court due to the damage to his reputation, sponsorsip etc. Very odd though, but I suppose I'm used to working for big corporations where deals are pretty transparent and are mostly made public due to all the legal plc-type stuff.
 
I think Foxford, if you read the articles carefully, the Phillip's have only just lodged their papers with the court and BM lawyers have now lodged their defence. I guess, unless they settle by mediation, the trial will be at a future date.

To all those who suggest that the horse's price increased because he rode it - some of them were horses he bought on behalf of the Phillip's for himself to ride and he is alleged to have inflated the purchase price!

Do these 'agents' who risk none of their own money at any time (they do not buy the horses themselves and then sell on to owners) share in the losses when a horse does not 'work out'? I guess the answer to that is
probably a resounding 'no why should I'!
 
Even were Ben Maher to be found to be totally without blame, there will still be a stigma attached to this and one whereby I suspect that his professional and sponsored riding days may well be over.

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave,......."! :rolleyes3:

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
Even were Ben Maher to be found to be totally without blame, there will still be a stigma attached to this and one whereby I suspect that his professional and sponsored riding days may well be over.

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave,......."! :rolleyes3:

Alec.
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Certainly his reputation would be called into question by any future owners... If it's true silly silly boy.
 
Was there not questions over abuse in his marriage or similar a few years ago? not the same but same person.
 
Foxford said:
. Very odd though, but I suppose I'm used to working for big corporations where deals are pretty transparent and are mostly made public due to all the legal plc-type stuff.
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:D:D:D

You don't work in the Corporate world I worked in!



As far Ben, talk about biting the hand that feeds you!
 
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I am sitting on the fence until both sides of the story are out, just reading one version also shows a biased story and I for one will be very surprised if the alligations are true, especially as it reeks of sour grapes !

As for future sponsorship Ben has a new sponsor which could well have contributed to the allegations from his ex sponsers, and whilst he keeps on winning like he is, I am sure his position with current sponsers is pretty comfortable .
 
lannerch said:
I am sitting on the fence until both sides of the story are out, .......

As for future sponsorship Ben has a new sponsor which could well have contributed to the allegations from his ex sponsers, and whilst he keeps on winning like he is, I am sure his position with current sponsers is pretty comfortable .
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You could very well be right, but would you now entrust him to sell a valuable horse, on your behalf, and without your own involvement? I wouldn't!!

You've actually raised a good point and a question; Who in their right minds would sell a horse of such value, without at least speaking with the buyer? If there was collusion between BM and the buyers, then they're hardly likely to admit to it, are they?

The costs, if both parties stick to their guns could very well be massive, so we'll see who buckles first. Presumably legal counsel will be offered, though whether it will be taken in, is another matter! My bet would be on the fact that this wont actually get to Court, but if it doesn't, then BM will have the devil's own job clearing his name of suspicion. We'll see what happens!!

Alec.
 
lannerch said:
I am sitting on the fence until both sides of the story are out, just reading one version also shows a biased story and I for one will be very surprised if the alligations are true, especially as it reeks of sour grapes !

As for future sponsorship Ben has a new sponsor which could well have contributed to the allegations from his ex sponsers, and whilst he keeps on winning like he is, I am sure his position with current sponsers is pretty comfortable .
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ACtually you have read both sides now - Ben's defence papers were lodged on Thursday. He says he is due commission on stud fees, training and all horses belonging to Quainton that he has competed (see Daily Telegraph and Chronicle of the Horse)

Ben does not have a major sponsor - he does have an american owner who actually took her horses away from their US rider due to his infringing some rules and causing her embarassment. On that basis she may not find this news so amusing.

The overwhelming sadness is that it is not good for the sport - not just show jumping but all horse sport
 
AdorableAlice said:
Greed, pure and simple. Endemic in the world we all live in, we are just more used to seeing it in the banking and corporate industry. Why is it the more successful people are the more greedy they get.
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Because to get to the top of any game you need to have a ruthless streak. It takes a certain type of person. To think that the pro riders are all doing this for the love of it is naive, it's a hard game and many are fuelled by success and money.
 
Scarlett said:
Because to get to the top of any game you need to have a ruthless streak. It takes a certain type of person. To think that the pro riders are all doing this for the love of it is naive, it's a hard game and many are fuelled by success and money.
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Anyone at the very top of their field is driven by one or the other, or both. I don't have a problem with that. But we're talking about alleged fraud here. If true, that's not a ruthless streak, that's greed and arrogance, not to mention mind-blowing stupidity.
 
without knowing the full details its hard to say how much if anything he has made over whet they thought he was making. what does need taking into account is the fact that with these deals its not unusual to have 2 or 3 middlemen so some of the difference in the sale and purchase price could easily be where funds have gone through these people and by the time they got to Ben the price could have been significantly less than the purchaser actually paid so I am sitting on thr fence until its all been heard and facts are known
 
Alec Swan said:
You could very well be right, but would you now entrust him to sell a valuable horse, on your behalf, and without your own involvement? I wouldn't!!

You've actually raised a good point and a question; Who in their right minds would sell a horse of such value, without at least speaking with the buyer? If there was collusion between BM and the buyers, then they're hardly likely to admit to it, are they?

Alec.
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But deals like that happen quite often. It's not uncommon for buyers to be anonymous, even to the point that the rider in question might not even try the horse.

I'll freely admit I've been involved in deals like this even at a very small level. Sometimes the trainer comes up and tries the horse but you never see the intended owner, sometimes it goes to an agent and then on to the actual buyer - all sorts of permutations and reasons. It doesn't necessarily means anyone is getting ripped off.

Anyway, Ben has issued a statement. http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/ben-maher-responds-phillips-lawsuit

What it mostly looks like is a great big mess.
 
Whatever had happened its a ridiculous way to do business . Who needs umteen people involved . This whole episode stinks, loyal owners have been left feeling very abused, a top rider has gone from hero to zero even if he is found not guilty, other owners will be left thinking have I been victim of this too . Anyone even considering owning or sponsoring would be well advised to keep their money in their pocket until there is a regulatory body in place to protect all players, owners, riders , sponsors etc.

Having no redress except through the courts has bought another tarnish to a great sport.
 
BBH said:
Whatever had happened its a ridiculous way to do business . Who needs umteen people involved . This whole episode stinks, loyal owners have been left feeling very abused, a top rider has gone from hero to zero even if he is found not guilty, other owners will be left thinking have I been victim of this too . Anyone even considering owning or sponsoring would be well advised to keep their money in their pocket until there is a regulatory body in place to protect all players, owners, riders , sponsors etc.

Having no redress except through the courts has bought another tarnish to a great sport.
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I'm not excusing anyone but there IS a way to keep control of things - get everything in writing, agree (by email) on all aspects of a horse's care, value, program, plans etc. Count your change. Do business like business. This goes for both sides - it's not always the riders who are having a fiddle!


I don't think we should hold our breath for a regulatory body, to be fair. Who would fund it, for one?
 
Yes I agree doing business like business is a start. So many of these things are when people fall into 'friendships' thinking that is enough but it isn't , certainly not when money is involved.
 
What was the story a few years ago regarding 'Bob's Diamond' a horse Ben was competing. Didn't he fall out with the owner of the horse?
 
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