BBC2 HORSE PEOPLE - PLEASE RING THE BBC AND COMPLAIN

If that was a lion cutting off his prey's airway in his bid to kill & eat, no one would be shouting how cruel. If that is thought of as cruel god help you lot if they ever repeat what happens to the dogs & cats in some parts of Asia. At least that mare was not boiled & skinned alive.
 
that is what I think - I have put a post in New Lounge as I didn't realise there was one that had started in here. There is no excuse to kill an animal so inhumanely. I don't care what religion or background someone comes from, why should any animal be slowly strangled to the point of unconsciouness and then blungeoned around the head. How can anyone, YES ANYONE, say this is a humane and dignified death. They could have slit its throat or shot is just as easily. Once it was on its knees gasping for breath it would have been so easy to go up to it and shoot in between the eyes or slit its throat. What kind of world do we live in that people can say this is acceptable?????
 
**Copied from my post in NL, didn't realise there was one here!! **

Yes I did. Have to say I had to turn away, kind of a 'I don't want to watch but I want to be informed moment'.

I think it is very inappropriate for the BBC to show this, at anytime (let alone primetime). With the amount of sick people in this country who seem to get enjoyment for animal suffering, and the amount of horse attacks each year, I think it was short sighted of them to show it.

I am actually going to write a letter of complaint to them about it. The way they 'put down' the mare was something that any couple of thugs could do imo, and wouldn't put it past sick people to try this (and think of all the gypsy ponies that are tied up ready for them
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For people who didn't see, they lassooed her, tied her to a pole, she ran around til no more rope left, virtually asphxiated herself, then they bashed her on the forehead three time with an axe and stabbed her in the heart. Very brutal, and horrid to see an animal treated that way. She even smashed through the fence the first time they attempted it.
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I can see that this is part of their culture, but really think they need maybe some more enlightenment from another culture and can maybe adopt a new method - we do change the way we work with horses all the time in the UK after influence from abroad (not a good example, but Parelli is one). I know that cows etc slaughtered in other cultures in Africa are killed with much less stress and violence
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Short answer. No. Don't complain.
I have only managed to watch portions of the show, because I can't get it to stream properly, and a storm means my connection keeps dying. I am going to try to see the whole thing, buts it's difficult.

I live a few hours drive from the region, and have a Yakut pony. I have met men, similar to those shown, who spend most of the lives living out in the wilderness, looking after their horses, just because it is the only way for them to make money. I have not yet managed to sewe the 'death scene', but if the rest of the show is anything to go by, it is true to life, and true to the culture.

Having one English parent, and one Russian, I am pesonally more sickened by the treatment of English chickens and poultry, than foals, who, lets face it, might die in a brutal way, but live and die in a better way that those in other countries, who have to travel for days and cramped lorries with little food or water. Atleast, IMO, these horses are treated with love and respect.

Until you meet peole like this, and live in the harsh conditions, I don' think you can judge. How far would you go to make money and survive?

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Thanks for input
I watched and my god at times it was uncomfortable, but NOT needing a complaint. It was informative, and good to see the bond these men had with their riding horses. They were well cared for. The level of poverty and hardship was unbelievable. I do think quick deaths (not traps or the method used on the mare) would be better in an ideal world, but this is NOT Western Europe and I understand there are reasons for using these methods. It was about survival not entertainment - therefore can't be compared to bullfighting.
Well done to the presenter - I couldn't have done it.
 
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Having one English parent, and one Russian, I am pesonally more sickened by the treatment of English chickens and poultry, than foals, who, lets face it, might die in a brutal way, but live and die in a better way that those in other countries, who have to travel for days and cramped lorries with little food or water. Atleast, IMO, these horses are treated with love and respect.

Until you meet peole like this, and live in the harsh conditions, I don' think you can judge. How far would you go to make money and survive?

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Thank you for posting this.
 
"How can you shoot something without a gun?"

The answer is that you go out and buy one. If they can afford to shoe and clothe themselves, drink vodka and pay for satelite, etc then they can afford a gun. I don't understand why people think having a gun and shooting a semi feral horse is more cruel then blungeoning something about the head after it has spent 2 1/2 minutes in agony slowly having its airway cut off. If you wish to be a guineapig however ......??
 
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Please read the entire thread, there are some very informative posts about different methods of slaughter and the ways in which they are done in different cultures. Cutting the mares throat would have been slow and painful for the mare. A gun would probably be the better way, but as there was no explanation for this, I am assuming there is a legal issue or something like that.
 
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that is what I think - I have put a post in New Lounge as I didn't realise there was one that had started in here. There is no excuse to kill an animal so inhumanely. I don't care what religion or background someone comes from, why should any animal be slowly strangled to the point of unconsciouness and then blungeoned around the head. How can anyone, YES ANYONE, say this is a humane and dignified death. They could have slit its throat or shot is just as easily. Once it was on its knees gasping for breath it would have been so easy to go up to it and shoot in between the eyes or slit its throat. What kind of world do we live in that people can say this is acceptable?????

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It may seem like a pathetic 'excuse' to ytou, and those who agree with you, but heres my view on it. It is far from perfect, really, I can agree with that. There may seem like quicker, more pain less ways to do it, but it is those mens livelihoods - guns mean bullets, which damage the flesh and the mean, meaning parts of the animal are unusable (I'm not sure what the regulations are, but there is some sort of rule about the metal contaninating meat, I'm not entirely sure though), going in straight away with the axe would mean the aim was bad as the horse would be running and jerking around, causing it more suffering what it hits the wrong part, leaving the animal to slowly bleed to death. Leathel injection would be too expensive for the herders to make any money, and also poision the flesh.
Can you think of any alternative that would allow the meat to still be sold, and make money for the poor men and their families?
 
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Can't believe what I just saw .... was almost sick when they showed a mare strangled / beaten to death and then skinned. Was it really necessary to show this in such graphic detail - even if a warning was given at the start of the programme. Please please ring up the BBC and log a complaint.

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I will not be ringing the BBC up to log a complaint. It was a very informative documentary- yes the killing of the mare was brutal, and to our soft western eyes unpleasant......... but if I was a horse I would rather of had a lovely life with them in the snow and had it ended in that way, than be transported live across europe with god knows what injuries.........

I would also rather of been that horse than (some) european veal calf, a fois gras goose, a crated pig, a battery hen--- the list is actually endless

ETS- all this talk of guns........ ERM will a gun work at minus 35 degrees? me thinks probably not!
 
What good will a letter of complaint to the BBC do???
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Like someone else said - if you are that bothered then write to the Embassy, but it won't change anything and fwiw I don't think they need to.
Echo Spaniel about the gun argument, I reakon one of them would end up getting shot with a wild pony running round and them trying to 'aim' for the right place. Unless of course you are going to suggest they dart it with sedation first!!!

This is a way of life for these people and I think they actually care amazingly for these ponies and you can clearly see the love the men have got for them.

I thought it was an excellent documentary, which gave a suitable warning before it started. If you don't like it DON'T WATCH!!!!
 
Well, I am sure the BBC will have received plenty of comments already and I expect they showed this programme fully aware it will receive a lot of response positive and negative.

Some peope obviously feel it's ok as it's their way of life, I would say fair enough but surely as a human race we're all about evolving so is it not possible that these men and their families could maybe learn of other ways to kill animals they need for survival?

I reiterate I did not watch it but seemingly these people had decent vehicles and satelite TV. They didn't have these 'traditionally' did they yet they do now. It's all about change isn't it and I don't see why they couldn't consider alternatives in their slaughtering methods as they have with other parts of their lives.
 
What a shame you didn't continue to bite your tongue. I do not need to be told to grow up, and resent being told to so because my opinion differs from yours. Nor do I consider myself ignorant, thank you.
 
I just think it shouldn't have been shown thats all. I am all for us not pushing our western ideas on other cultures (or some such that others have been banging on about) but I think its entirely inappraopriate for them to show this.

Virtually no-one in Britain would have ever seen something like that before, but putting it on TV lets a much wider audience in on their culture. That bit is fine.

But I can't help worrying that this might have a knock on effect on maybe horse attacks in the UK - I certainly wouldn't want to find my horse tied to a pole with axe holes in its head when I go down to see it in the morning, just because some sick thug in the UK watched on documentary on it.

I am not really arguing the case for them not showing the whole documentary, just that I don't think some people need to watch things like that.

Although I don't see why people want to 'save' these cultures and keep them in a little bubble, things change, yes they have been doing this for 100's of years, but I am pretty sure they didn't have sky TV then, or cars, so they can obviously adapt and change to some things, why not others.

The point about cultures is that they change over time, they do not stay still. Otherwise we would all still be living in caves and etaing mammoths now wouldn't we?
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I just think it shouldn't have been shown thats all. I am all for us not pushing our western ideas on other cultures (or some such that others have been banging on about) but I think its entirely inappraopriate for them to show this.

Virtually no-one in Britain would have ever seen something like that before, but putting it on TV lets a much wider audience in on their culture. That bit is fine.

But I can't help worrying that this might have a knock on effect on maybe horse attacks in the UK - I certainly wouldn't want to find my horse tied to a pole with axe holes in its head when I go down to see it in the morning, just because some sick thug in the UK watched on documentary on it.

I am not really arguing the case for them not showing the whole documentary, just that I don't think some people need to watch things like that.

Although I don't see why people want to 'save' these cultures and keep them in a little bubble, things change, yes they have been doing this for 100's of years, but I am pretty sure they didn't have sky TV then, or cars, so they can obviously adapt and change to some things, why not others.

The point about cultures is that they change over time, they do not stay still. Otherwise we would all still be living in caves and etaing mammoths now wouldn't we?
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Cultures do change, they do evolve, but preserving them is improtant. Isn't their always controversy about wiping out British traditions, for example fox hunting and traditional farming methods, people are always trying to preserving things like using horses and carts to plow feilds etc- other people and cultures find hunting a brutal way to kill animals...

(That may not have come out as eloquent as I wished, my connection keeps dying, and when I get angry my englsih braindies =] )
 
I have been reading all the replies thanks. And also the replies to the post that I set up in New Lounge (didn't realise at the time there was one here in Latest News). Here is my reply to all the replies I got to my original post in New Lounge so you can see I have been keeping up:

"Thanks for your comments about this programme I enjoy a healthy debate. I too felt the programme was interesting and it was good to see how another country produced meat and lived the life they did. I wasn't against the principle of farming horses for meat, and would eat horse meat myself if I could be assured that it had been transported and slaughtered humanely. It was the actual slaughter that I thought was very inhumane and totally unaccpetable. I do watch reality type documentary programmes such as the Jamie Oliver food things, Kill It, Cook It, Eat it and have welcomed such programmes in the past as they give an accurate and clear view of what animal slaughter is all about. I also found Hugh's Chicken Run very interesting to watch. I find it is beneficial to see such programmes as it is hard to know where your meat comes from, how animals are slaughtered, etc without such programmes and at least one is able to make a uniformed choice. I just found that the slaughter of the mare last night was totally unnaceptable from an ethical and humane point of view. I agree that they chose the mare for a reason (she was not productive and obviously it is only right that the unproductive older animals are slaughtered in preference to horses that have a more productive life) but the way in which it was done and the stress that she went through before rendered unconcious was appalling. Nobody on this forum hand on heart can say that that was a humane and dignified death for any animal regardless of lifestyle choices. There is no reason why they couldn't have slit her throat or shot her (guns still work in minus 35 don't you know) - there is no excuse for that. They were not that poor, they could afford vodka and satellite and no doubt they got paid for the documentary that was made - that is no excuse. Thank you for all your comments which have obviously provoked an angry response in some of you, but we thankfully live in a world where freedom of speech is recognised and accepted as the norm. x ""
 
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Cutting the mares throat would have been slow and painful for the mare. A gun would probably be the better way, but as there was no explanation for this, I am assuming there is a legal issue or something like that.

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In what way would cutting the mare's throat be a more "slow and painful" way to die than the method they used?

When you cut the jugular vein, it causes an instant and huge loss of blood, rendering the animal unconscious within seconds. Certainly a quicker and less painful and traumatic death than the one the mare actually received.
 
Like oftern happens in these debates often the original points get lost in the debates afterwards. Personally, i have no problem with the rest of the the programme, nor with the way these people live nor with killing and eating horses.
What i do have a problem with, and what i said to the BBC is that i didnt think that htere was any need to show the death of this animal in such graphic detail. Now i have watched the rest of it, as i explained i turned over late, I stil do not believe there was any need to show the whole scene. everyone knew whay was coming, showing the whole scene was just sensationalism dresses up as education. Anyone who wants to see a horse die badly can tune into youtube.
I think this whole series is going to reflect badly on horse people.
 
And was the point of the program was to highlight the brutality these animals suffer at the end of their lives? if so it did that.

I dont agree with the attitude "it happens so get over it", in the same way I am haunted by the visions of live animal skinning in China and i dont accept that either just because "it happens".
 
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Echo Spaniel about the gun argument, I reakon one of them would end up getting shot with a wild pony running round and them trying to 'aim' for the right place. Unless of course you are going to suggest they dart it with sedation first!!!



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That arguement doesn't work. On my OH's farm in South Africa they shoot about 300 Springbok a year over a few days. Springbok are just as nervous and shy as those horses, they've never managed to shoot each other yet. If you are a proper marksman you get the right place.

As for contanimating meat. As long as you don't nick the stomach, and if you do, you butcher the animal right away the meat is fine.
 
xspiralx - I am glad you said that cos that would have been my thought but I freely admit I do not know the ins and outs of animal slaughter. But from previous posts on here I believed that cutting the jugular vein (if done properly) had this effect.
 
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Cultures do change, they do evolve, but preserving them is improtant. Isn't their always controversy about wiping out British traditions, for example fox hunting and traditional farming methods, people are always trying to preserving things like using horses and carts to plow feilds etc- other people and cultures find hunting a brutal way to kill animals...

(That may not have come out as eloquent as I wished, my connection keeps dying, and when I get angry my englsih braindies =] )

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Yes, so keep the farming and the lifestyle, but change the method of actually killing the animal, or just don't show it in the first place
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I know I actually laughed out loud when I read that slitting the mares throat would be a far more painful death. Sat in the middle of an open plan office too - how funny. Wish we could say the same about the subject matter.
 
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I know I actually laughed out loud when I read that slitting the mares throat would be a far more painful death. Sat in the middle of an open plan office too - how funny. Wish we could say the same about the subject matter.

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Maybe not more apinful - but how on earth do you suppose slitting the mares throat would happen.
A semi ferral mare is just going to wander over, puts it;s head down, nice and still, and not fight while you try to locate the correct spot, and stab it in the neck?
I some how don't think its going to happen quite like that
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Well quite. Kosher slaughter (and Halal for that matter) was devised precisely because loss of consciousness is pretty well instantaneous. I am surprised that so many people support such a brutal ending to a life, and the rather strange arguments put up. Put your money where your mouth is, and if you think it is okay to slaughter a horse in this way, have your own one done the same when the time comes.
 
Fox hunting as a tradition was for sport more than necessity although was to help the farmer in protecting the livestock. It is not necessary for our survival - ie we do not eat foxes or need to feed them to any of our animals that we do use for meat and I don't believe they have a huge impact in respect of livestock losses. I suspect more foxes are killed by cars than by hunts. I don't think you can use it as a comparative and if the 'tradition' dies out is there any real loss?

I don't think there is an argument that the people in the programme need the horses for survival, the suggestion is that maybe their methods of slaughter need reassessing.
 
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