BBC2 HORSE PEOPLE - PLEASE RING THE BBC AND COMPLAIN

[frannieuk]

(QR)

Just a point to the OP - are you asking us to complain to the BBC for showing the documentary, or because you don't agree with the slaughtering techniques and cultures depicted?

WRT to the BBC showing it, my opinion (FWIW) is that if this is going on, then we should be able to educate ourselves about it, and also IMO, there were more than adequate warnings about the content prior to the start.

WRT to the topic, personally I feel that those horses have the closest thing to a "wild" life as could be found, and probably experience a less traumatic death than they would otherwise suffer from starvation or wolf attack. As someone who has been brought up in a fairly "sterile" culture I find it hard to watch these scenes, but I'm glad I did - life is hard and it makes me appreciate the fact that I can give my horse the luxury of a painless death when the time comes.

 

[lucretia]

I will be interested to see how many will defend the Spanish culture after they see the bull fighting thing next week........ I seem to recall the last time there was such a debate on here (when I posted the merlin video from you tube) there werent many.

 

[lucretia]

I thought i was pretty clear about what i have complained about, which was the reason why they felt they had to show quite as much as they did of the horse's dispatch. I think seeing the carcass being skinned and dismembered would have been quite a big enough dose of reality, but maybe that is because i grew up in an age where every thing wasnt dumbed down and you were required to use both your imagination and reasoning to work out what was not actually shown.
I am afaid to say i didnt need to see the brutal killing of that horse to know the lives of these people are tough. I am quite surprised other people did.

 

[Tinypony]

Whatever the rights and wrongs, why are people complaining to the BBC? Shouldn't those who are shocked be grateful that the BBC have brought the situation to their attention? What is wrong with showing a factual documentary about someone else's way of life?
I think you are shooting the messenger. You could write to the government of the country maybe. Or if you think that welfare agencies could help - write to them. Work out how they are going to find the funding to go over and change things though, it will be a costly exercise.
I don't know how true this is, but it makes sense to me. On another forum a poster who knows about living in ultra low temperatures is saying that a gun is not an option. She says they become dangerous to use as the heat of the bullet passing through the very cold chamber can cause the metal to fracture.

 

[nicnag]

Perhaps not the best method in your opinion - but as I already said this is a different culture with different values. I do a lot of work in slaughter houses and I can tell you bad things happen with other methods so yes - in their culture this probably is the best method they have.

 

[Tinypony]

By the way, calling people "horse lovers" like that is just insulting everyone. I love my horses to death, and have made huge sacrifices in the past to keep them. That doesn't stop me being able to understand that other cultures may view their relationship with horses differently to the way I do. I don't eat my horses for a start, but then neither do I cut their heads off to keep in an ancestral tree and visit it with respect.
I think you need to understand the reasons behind anything like this before you know how to bring about change. Respectfully, I suggest that there wasn't enough information in this documentary to fully understand the situation. It bears more investigation before condeming the people who survive in these inhospitable places.

 

[lucretia]

as i keep repeating (hopefully it will start to sink in eventually) I have no objectio to the subject, oh the whole it was educational but there was no need to show such a brutal and distresssing scene in its entirety particualrly when the trailers and promotional material pertaining to this broadcast gave no hint that it would be anything other than a 'jolly pony story' type programme. it was easy to miss the opening warning (according to several people hardly adequate) and that was another thing i complained about. Those things are the responsibility of the broadcaster arent they.

 

[muddy boots]

We may not understand or agree with the lifestyle, but I don't think we should complain. I wouldn't like to live in a fluffy censored world where the broadcasters were afraid to show us the real world.

 

[Tinypony]

The thing is Lucretia, you aren't the only person being responded to on this thread. Maybe your points have "sunk in" but there is more being discussed that what you have said.
Whatever was in trailers, it was patently obvious that the scene of slaughter was going to be tough viewing, we had plenty of warning from the presenter.
I was responding mainly to the post by Over2you.

 

[hellybelly6]

I do not have a problem with people eating horse meat. These horses were obviously well looked after and have a great life. What got to me was that in the 21st centuary an animal is still hacked to death. I appreciate it is a different culture etc, but surely there is an alternative.

After all these people have satelite TV and a diesel powered generator and are surrounded by wolves.

Eating all this meat surely must be making those men constipated. It is a diet high in fat and protein, but with little fibre. Not to mention the lack of vitamin C. Am I the only person who has considered this?

 

[Elle1085]

It was upsetting to watch and i wish i hadn't and i missed the warning but the one i saw on bbci *contains upsetting scenes* could have referred to the hares legs being snapped or the frozen wolves. Seeing a terrified horse being strangled and beaten to death was imo unnecessary but then it would still happen whether we saw or not

 

[Donkeymad]

QR

Unlike this thread, I viewed the entire programme. These people live in a very primitive and difficult place. they clearly love and care for their horses, and rely on them for their livilihood. The death of the mare was not the most pleasant, but could have been so very much worse. She barely knew what was happening by the time she was bludgeoned, and then had her heart stabbed.
I think the BBC gave a very balanced view, leaving the most graphic details to the imagination.
This was by far the best BBC programme I have seen in a very long time, and would not dream of complaining about it.

 

[bailey14]

Idon't quite understand what you are saying about people supporting such a brutal end to a life - what by slitting an animals throat?? Sureley this is preferred to half aphysixating an animal and clubbing it around the head with an axe? Can't really see what point your trying to make to be honest. I have lost four horses in the most tragic of circumstances and to be honest find your words quite upsetting. I was merely pointing out the difference between the two slaughterr methods. Of course I wouldn't want that for my horse, or for any horse but it would be the best scenario for these poor horses in the circumstances they find themselves in. I won't myself eat halal meat because of the way its butchered. I had an ex boyfriend who worked for four years as a slaughter man in ireland and came over to birmiingham to live where he was employed at a halal meat factory in the centre of Birmingham City Centre. He lasted a week and the stories he told me made my toes curl. He had nothing to gain by telling me this, I have no doubt he was telling the truth. He was in tears telling me how they slaughtered the animals. In principle whenever I go for a balti (Birmingham being the Balti capital of the UK) I refuse to eat the meat and always have a mushroom balti. I have never forgotten his words. However if I thought that my lovely leg of lamb that I had for Sunday lunch had come from a lamb that had been half strangled and blungeoned with an axe to kill it I wouldn't eat that either.

 

[bailey14]

Your missing the point. At the point when the mare was aphyixiated (which you will have noticed if you had watched up to that point, which unfortunately I did) you will have seen that she had stopped struggling (presumably as her brain was starving from oxygen, hence no more fighting). They could have done it then. There is no excuse ever, ever, ever for blungeoning an animal over the head with an axe and I am suprised that so many people on this site believe there is.

 

[bailey14]

Over2You you have my deepest respect. I could not have put your point more eloquently or thoughtfully (I have been trying all day but without much luck). I am totally gobsmacked by the reactions of some of these people on the forum too. I know I said earlier in one of my posts that thank god in this country we have the right to freedom of speech but sometimes I wonder if it is all worth it! I wish there were more people like you who are epathic and human, as the world would be a better place. God bless you for having the courage to air your viewpoint in the face of such adverse reactions from some people on this forum today. x

 

[bailey14]

How in Gods name could her death of been any worse. Do tell me. I suppose they could have cut her into pieces whilst alive, or thrown her in a big cooking pot and boiled her to death, or maybe run over her with a lorry but other than that I am totally at a loss as to how you have drawn this bizarre conclusion. Your comment "she barely knew what was happening to her by the time she was blungeoned" is beyond belief!!!! Of course she knew what was happening to her. In our country when we used to be a sensible nation that had the death penalty, and felons were hung the whole reason why the 'drop' was introduced was to snap someones neck instantly thus causing instant death. Before that people used to slowly strangle on the end of a rope and the fortunate felons were classed as the ones that could pay friends or persuade familly to jump up and down whilst hanging off their feet so they would die a quicker and more humane death. Thank god we live in a civilised society.

 

[Tinypony]

Even if you missed the warning at the start of the programme, there was plenty of notice that the scene with the mare was going to be upsetting and she was going to be killed. I watched the whole programme, and had a couple of minutes deciding whether or not I'd watch the actual slaughter while the presenter was watching the mare run about and starting to look tearful about it. You could even have turned over at the point were she was initially tied to the post. If you watched the actual killing surely it was by choice.
I wish someone would answer my question about what exactly is supposed to be acheived to change this practise by complaining to the BBC. It's OK to run others down for not being "empathic and human" and all the other things that have been said. What are you going to do to change it? I doubt the BBC is the place to start.

 

[bailey14]

a) if you'd bothered to read my previous post I stated that I did not watch the slaughter as I could see where it was going and the sound and sight of that mare slowly being strangled to death was more than I could bear (my partner told me what had happened and spared me the misery of watching it myself) b) I did not say I was going to complain to the BBC at all and c) yes, I absolutely wholeheartedly stand by what I said about people being humane and empathic and finally d) I didnot put my post on here with a view to doing anything about it, as I stated previously (if you'd bothered to read my post) that I was asking if anyone had seen the programme and what their views were. It all goes back to the same old thing, time and time again, people view points.

 

[Tinypony]

It's not all about your comments, people tend to pick up on points they have read in the last few posts. ie
[ QUOTE ]
It was upsetting to watch and i wish i hadn't and i missed the warning but the one i saw on bbci *contains upsetting scenes* could have referred to the hares legs being snapped or the frozen wolves. Seeing a terrified horse being strangled and beaten to death was imo unnecessary but then it would still happen whether we saw or not

[/ QUOTE ]
And this isn't the first time I asked the question about complaining to the BBC - if you bothered to read my previous posts.

So again, I'm not responding to you directly, but to some of the main themes in this thread.

 

[Sooty]

Eh? What words?

I think you may be confusing me with someone else if you think I am supporting this slaughter method.

 

[BayJosie]

Right.

Well I didn't think it was right for me to comment on this thread or on the programme until I had watched it. I have read every single comment in this thread, and whilst I can understand that as horse lovers we may have found their methods not to our own standards or taste I really wasn't that offended by it. I love my own horse more than anything I can describe to you, but the way these people live is completely different to anything we have or will ever experience or understand
You can live in a lala land and cover your ears all you want, but this is life, It may not be the life you chose to lead but it is the life of others and you must respect that whether you agree with it or not.

 

[Beanyowner]

If you read the programme description on teletext, Sky or in magazines they all mentioned 'upsetting scenes'...you don't expect it all to be sweetness and light do you??

 

[Tenzing]

An article on the BBC site says there have been 100 complaints regarding the slaughter of the horse.

There were a million viewers.

So about 0.01% complained.

TheaL - did you ever get round to complaining?

Looks like common sense prevailed.

 

[Beanyowner]

[ QUOTE ]


Looks like common sense prevailed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks goodness!!

 

[bailey14]

Sooty I apologise. I thought your comments about having my own horse put down was your response to my comments about the halal method of slitting its throat. some confusion there then, and apologies one again. x

 

[Robyn0288]

The slaughter was horrific I agree 100% but the horses had a good life, I dont know how old the mare was but if she hadnt foaled for four years she must have been a reasonable age, and the slaughter was around 10 minutes of that life.

surely when looking at animal welfare you should look at the bigger picture- I have worked in abattoirs and I found the actual killing as humane as possible, but the animals life before it was farmed was probably pretty horrible- not just pigs and chickens but also cattle, especially dairy cows. Overall i thought the life of the horse was much better than most of the farming systems over here.

I dont know if there are other methods of slaughter that would be more suitable but they have probably thought of using a gun. I did wonder why they didnt cut the throat but I do think there is a reason for it, as they clearly loved their horses and wernt watching it suffer because they got a kick out of it!

 

[Tinypony]

I can't help feeling that if cutting the throat was a better option that would be what they'd do. They had so much respect for the horses and weren't setting out to cause the mare pain and anguish, just to get the job done as efficiently as they could.

 

[slingo1uk]

I too have read every thread on here and have watched the programme before commenting, I found it disturbing to see the poor mare killed in such a way , she knew what was coming however I am glad the BBC have shown this programme , now we have been educated on their way of life maybe someone can educate these people on how to shoot a gun.

 

[rosie fronfelen]

as much as it was horrendous to watch,(i had to walk away) these are a people on the other side of the world with a different culture and a totally alien (to us) way of life. to even consider teaching them "more humane"ways of killing is very naive. i don't think it was an appropriate programme for the BBC to broadcast at that time of night however, especially as there are excellent programmes on far later, but that seems to be the BBC's way these days, anything to "shock"!!

 

[Sooty]

No need to apologise; I just didn't know what I had said that had upset you!

I certainly think there has to be a better way of slaughtering than the one in the programme, and it would appear from a reply to my email to WHW that they agree. However, I think everyone also agrees that there is bugger all we can do about it.