BBC2 HORSE PEOPLE - PLEASE RING THE BBC AND COMPLAIN

[Donkeymad]

As said by another poster, by the time they started bludgeoning her, she was barely conscious.
I have not said this method is right, but it could be worse, and I stick by that.

By the way, apparently these people think we are cruel to our horses, by keeping them stabled and such luck. They have a point.

 

[joshesmum]

All i can say is im glad i missed it!

 

[Erehwemos]

I am just wondering - obviously the mare was killed by the strangulation/blows to the head/dagger in heart method - but I wonder if this is the way they kill the foals and, more to the point, their tame riding horses (such as the one who they 'loved' so much they had kept his skull in the tree). I wonder whether he too will have been roped down and axed in the head...or whether it is a method used only for the wild ponies?
It seems inconceivable that a tame horse could be killed in the same way

 

[pinktiger]

[ QUOTE ]
I am just wondering - obviously the mare was killed by the strangulation/blows to the head/dagger in heart method - but I wonder if this is the way they kill the foals and, more to the point, their tame riding horses (such as the one who they 'loved' so much they had kept his skull in the tree). I wonder whether he too will have been roped down and axed in the head...or whether it is a method used only for the wild ponies?
It seems inconceivable that a tame horse could be killed in the same way

[/ QUOTE ]



v good point,

but, as you see in an upper post, 'were cruel for keeping horses in a stable', the logic of some people's arguments are just unreal

!!!

 

[slingo1uk]

I dont think teaching and demonstrating a more humane way of killing an animal is being" Naive" at all, surely if they love their horses they would rather dispatch them in an instant with no knowledge of what they were about to endure.

People can learn , improve and move on and bollocks to traditional inhumane practices.

 

[suzysparkle]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am just wondering - obviously the mare was killed by the strangulation/blows to the head/dagger in heart method - but I wonder if this is the way they kill the foals and, more to the point, their tame riding horses (such as the one who they 'loved' so much they had kept his skull in the tree). I wonder whether he too will have been roped down and axed in the head...or whether it is a method used only for the wild ponies?
It seems inconceivable that a tame horse could be killed in the same way

[/ QUOTE ]



v good point,

but, as you see in an upper post, 'were cruel for keeping horses in a stable', the logic of some people's arguments are just unreal

!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the thing though, they probably think our logic is flawed. Who is to say who is actually correct. Their Horses certainly experience a far more natural life than a stabled Horse over here does. I bet none of them had stress related vices like cribbing or weaving. I remember reading somewhere (it was to do with interrogation) that people and animals can cope better with physical rather than mental torture. Please note I am not saying stabling is mental torture so don't take it like that anyone!!

I strongly suspect that there is a reason they don't slit the throat. There was hardly any blood and maybe it's to do with that. Attracts less Wolves perhaps? I remember them saying that they had to butcher very quickly before the body froze.

One thing I wish that had been asked of the Horsemen is why they used that method to kill the Horse. Perhaps it would have put things into perspective a bit more. I would also ask why they trap wolves instead of shoot them. I hate the thought of trapping as the animal must be in so much distress for some time. Those men respected their animals so much that I honestly don't believe they have the means to a more humane method, otherwise they would surely use it. Does anyone know if they are actually allowed guns there??

 

[Elle1085]

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It's not all about your comments, people tend to pick up on points they have read in the last few posts. ie
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It was upsetting to watch and i wish i hadn't and i missed the warning but the one i saw on bbci *contains upsetting scenes* could have referred to the hares legs being snapped or the frozen wolves. Seeing a terrified horse being strangled and beaten to death was imo unnecessary but then it would still happen whether we saw or not

[/ QUOTE ]
And this isn't the first time I asked the question about complaining to the BBC - if you bothered to read my previous posts.

So again, I'm not responding to you directly, but to some of the main themes in this thread.

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When i said i wished i hadn't watched it i meant because i would rather not have known and remained blissfully ignorant, but i am aware it was my own choice to watch it

 

[rosie fronfelen]

i meant that to try and teach them on more humane ways of killing is naive, as i said, they are in a different world from us and we have to respect their ways, as awful as they are!!! the wrong thing was to screen this programme in the first place, unnecessary and provoking anger, also i do think that the television culture is alot to blame for everyday crimes, torture and the like- how soon will it be before there some horror story in H.H. about a copycat killing in this country? makes you wonder-

 

[chestnut cob]

I've just watched the programme (recorded it) and read most of the thread...

I think it was a very well made and informative piece of television. The mare was barely conscious when she was hit although I will confess I found the scenes of her trying to run away before they caught her quite upsetting. However, you have to remember that although these people clearly have a lot of love and respect for their horses, to them they are a living. They are treated better than we often treat cattle here in the UK and to them they are just that. The mare had no worth to them because she was old and couldn't produce foals any longer so why keep her alive when it is so difficult to survive anyway in that environment? The killing was not for fun or pleasure, they ate the meat and I imagine will use the pelt/fur as well.

I applaud the BBC for a very well made documentary. Don't complain - it was an informative and interesting programme. I would rather my licence fee was spent on things like this than rubbish like Eastenders, Escape to the Country, To Buy or Not to Buy etc...

 

[SirenaXVI]

[ QUOTE ]
TheaL, I am quite shocked you would complain about a programme you admit having watched for only 3 minutes. Talk about a knee jerk reaction.

If you had watched more of the programme, you would have seen the presenter extremely distressed by the slaughter method. It was in no way suggested that this was a good or acceptable method of horse slaughter. Nonetheless, it is a method that has been used for centuries and continues to this day.

You can put your fingers in your ears and go 'la la la' or you can try and learn a bit more about other people's way of living and THEN make a judgement. Please don't try and prevent intellegent, if disturbing, programmes being broadcast for the rest of us.
A

[/ QUOTE ]

round of applause - I could not have put it better myself

 

[foxviewstud]

sorry but i thought the program was brilliant, yes the killing was horrible but that horse had a better life and possibly a better death than some horses in this country!!!!!!!!they only killed animals for food or to protect their horses that they had huge respect for, this country may have moved forward with slaughter but this is not always possible for other countrys!!!!!

 

[PapaFrita]

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You posted a comment under my user name saying you resented my comment therefore I am making the point that it wasn't addressed to you, as I am also entitled to do.

[/ QUOTE ]
How interesting; so you are entitled to express your opinion on an open forum and are simultaneously denying someone else the right to comment on your post?
It's not like you're having a private conversation here, you know.

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I think you need to take a chill pill, I'm not gonna carry on this silliness.

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Chill pill for yourself perhaps?

 

[Fizzimyst]

QR

Why on earth would you complain? This is life! it was a factual program! Goodness me, there were warnings, she even said before it happened she was going to watch the horse be killed!

I would much rather watch this kind of program and be aware of what is going on around the world than switch it off and be none the wiser. Ignorance is bliss, doesnt mean it doesnt happen!

Like the PETA video for KFC, that was horrific but you know what, I watched it and now I dont eat KFC. Watching an animal killed for Halal meat, hated it, avoid halal like the plague.

ETA: QR

 

[Robyn0288]

People who are saying they avoid Halal, I dont know if you know this, but muslims dont eat the hindquaters of an animal, so this meat is sold on the general market and does not have to be labelled as halal.
You might know this, just i didnt until recently, and was shocked i could have been eating Halal without realising it!

 

[LankyDoodle]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't catch the very start of the programme so didn't get the benefit of the warning beforehand, otherwise I would have chosen not to watch. But are you seriously saying that the scene needed to be shown in such a detailed manner, with close ups of the distressed animal? you may be comfortable with being "educated" in this way, but I was not. Common sense?
Just a final thought; if they showed a dog in china in the same manner; how many thousands of complaints would the bbc get?

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I saw Louie Theroux (I think it was him), eating all manner of animals' penises and testicles in China, on TV, a few years ago. I can honestly say that I was not traumatised by the experience and I did not link the thing he was eating to the domesticated animal my gran has curled up on the rug in front of her fire.

You justhave to accept that we are but one culture in a world of many cultures. Just because we have a particular way with certain animals, does not mean every other culture does or should. Who is to say which way is the right way? And whose judgement will it be based on? It's all about perception... and a little bit of empathy. Some of us feel it is wrong; however, a lot of those in other cultures see this as being completely normal.

In the same way, while we don't make a habbit of eating dog or horse here, in other cultures (including other Western cultures) DO eat these animals. They are animals just like cows, pigs, sheep, chickens. It is WE who domesticate them and make them into the things they are (pets, work animals, whatever).

I'm not saying I wouldn't find viewing this quite disturbing; but the fact I am accepting that I probably would find it disturbing, says more about me and the society I was brought up in than it does about the people who live like that.

 

[willfinnemore]

Is there any chance of a link to this video please? I cant comment unless I have viewed it

 

[chestnut cob]

I would imagine it's still on the BBC iPlayer...

 

[willfinnemore]

Thankyou. These people say it is culture but we all have to change things one day. they could perhaps keep the cultural traditional killing but still make it humane. They could make a race so the horse can be knocked on the head without being strangled. Or something on those lines.

 

[jules89]

Ive just switched onto this tonight and I feel sick

 

[hellybelly6]

I do not see how this type of slaughter can be excused in one word 'culture'. What a load of rubbish and political correctness. There is no need, in this day and age for inhumanity to animals or each other. Every journey starts with just one step, why not start here?

It doesnt matter if the animal has the best standards of care imaginable, if the slaughter is traumatic, slow and physically painful.

 

[marble]

tonights programme shows last weeks programme in a true context, one countries people making living out of horse meat, but animals loved and cared for, albeit maybe not killed the way we would wish, and tonight people with money but not kindness using animals to gratify their whatever feelings.... I know which I prefer, horses used, bulls tortured and killed.....I think we were also not shown, the pre fight..were old, lame...horses are padded and used to raise bulls anger....padding often does not stop bulls horns tearing into horses flesh....may I ask why we British in the EEC allow anti fox hunters to dictate our hunts, but do not ask sabs why they are not in spain to stop this...Also in France on any Sunday in the year...you can see shooters out with their guns, shooting down any bird flying in range...are we going mad in the Uk....Every day we see more cruelty not only to animals, but every living thing on our planet.....I look at the forum we are on, plus other forums and think can we not get together, vote vote and please put a stop to it.

 

[TicTac]

I tell you what, Alexandra got on my neves this evening, squealing and moaning BUT what absolutely beautiful horses and so calm yet agile.

Once again. When in Rome.................You don't have to agree with what goes on to admire the beauty and courage of their horses.

 

[flash1]

How people in this day and age can think its ok to kill a horse in this way is beyond me. I respect and understand other cultures but it is not necessary to use such cruel and barbaric methods. these people had satalite tv and yet can not find a more humane method of slaughter.
however the bbc did well to bring this to peoples attention maybe these people will now be educated in more humane methods

 

[Tia]

QR -

Okay it has taken me a while to finish reading the whole of this thread but I have now.

Like Meowkiss, I also live in a country familiar to -35 temperatures so I'll offer my thoughts on the matter based on someone who actually lives in this type of environment too. I am a gun owner aswell so I have a little bit of knowledge on this score.

Guns would be a very bad choice to use to kill the horse. Guns do NOT work consistently in temperatures like we have. It can be difficult to get the lock on and off for a start. The gun oil can cause trouble in cold weather and can cause resistance to motion which will interfere with the manner in which the bullet is thrust out. The gun oil can also be a cause of the gun misfiring which would be seriously bad news. Trying to fire a gun in -35 would involve taking your gloves off and anyone who has experienced these temperatures would know that you have about 2 minutes before your hands will start to turn black and die. A gun is metal, any condensation and your hand will be stuck solid to the metal parts. Intense heat given out by the firing, should it be successful, could cause irrepairable damage to the gun, so it might be a "one time wonder" for each gun. Probably there are many many more reasons than I have thought of, but I'm sure you get the idea?

Slitting throats - probably a very bad idea if you ask me. At -35 liquids freeze solid within seconds. T'would be a shame to go to the very difficult trouble of slitting a horses throat in those conditions, for the blood to stem almost immediately. Blood loss would have wolves howling at your boots (I know, been there Lol!), can be quite scary so clearing up the blood would be the very first thing you would need to do, and if you were lucky enough (for the horse's sake) to have the blood flowing, then you wouldn't be very lucky when the wolves start attacking you to get to the horse.

Stabbing, yes as MK says, far easier as the blood would be contained within the heat of the body. Slitting, not so easy, combined with the troubles mentioned above.

Bolt gun; can't see that being any more effective than a gun to be honest. You'd still have the problems of it jamming and then you'd end up with a horse with horrific injuries ... but still alive. And how do you get it into a position to get a good clean shot? Nigh on impossible if you ask me.

Euthanasia; not sure at what temperature the liquid freezes at. Anyone know? Can't imagine it would be easy to euthanise a wild horse in any case and it would be unsafe to eat then, so no good as an option.

Sorry but I have to say, strangling, bludgeoning and then stabbing, seems the most effective manner to me, given the extreme conditions. I am thankful I have a vet to do the deed for me when needed.

 

[Tia]

Oh and just to add, skinning a hide is not difficult, infact once off the meat it is quite easy in freezing conditions, I've done it. You use a different type of knife which, once underneath the sinew has the hide literally lifts off the flesh. To clean the hide you use a frame to stretch the hide and you slather the meat off. To butcher the animal there and then, you would need a concoction of different knives to carry around with you and you would need a fair amount of containers for the meat and hide. I would imagine dragging a dead carcass would be easier than transporting a whole butchered animal.

(Sorry if this is a little graphic, I'm simply trying to answer some of the questions which came up in the thread.)

 

[siennamum]

I don't know if you were able to watch the programme Tia, it was fantastic & such healthy happy horses.
My view was that the method of euthanasia was fairly guaranteed to ensure the handlers weren't in close contact with the horse until it was down & semi conscious. Those guys couldn't afford to get kicked or have broken limbs & I think that was the governing factor in it's death.

 

[Tabbi]

I chose not to watch these programmes. I am the type of person who could not watch an animal being slaughtered. Where as I understand how animals are killed for meat etc I don't like to watch it happening.

My husband is very much into guns and goes shooting rabbits, pigeons, pheasents etc and he brings them home to eat. again I cannot watch the process of the plucking, gutting etc but the meat does not go to waste and that is a good thing.

I have friends who are watching this series and they think it is very interesting and informative but you have a choice of turning the TV over if you don't like watching these types of programmes.

 

[gabbypinkjessica]

A fascinating insightful introduction to a totally different culture. To those who want to educate and influence these people to use 'more humane' methods, I would suggest you pack your winter clothes and go and spend some time out there. Ask about other methods. Explain your reasoning to them. It's no good telling us from behind your computer screen.
If it upsets you that much then do something about it.
I'd be surprised if there are better methods, but also if you could stand face to face with one of these guys and tell him he is cruel after seeing him work with his horses.