Madam_max
Well-Known Member
Do you think they get better marks than they should if they compete locally and are judged by their colleagues or are likely to judged them in the future?
BD Judges
- Thread starter Madam_max
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mat
Well-Known Member
No more than if a rider is popular I would imagine!
Madam_max
Well-Known Member
Counts me out then
Partoow
Well-Known Member
yes i think some do. Think its proportional to the list you are on ...
The higher the list the more the juging becomes.... generous!!
I know of a few like this!!!
The higher the list the more the juging becomes.... generous!!
I know of a few like this!!!
Judie
Well-Known Member
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The higher the list the more the juging becomes.... generous!!
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That is shocking really isn't it, but I'm sure quite common.
The higher the list the more the juging becomes.... generous!!
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That is shocking really isn't it, but I'm sure quite common.
mat
Well-Known Member
I know of some riders who pay their trainers to warm them up and read their test for them to try to scrape a few extra marks because the judge likes the trainer.
Not good form IMO..
Madam_max
Well-Known Member
I thought so.
Ferdinase514
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
yes i think some do. Think its proportional to the list you are on ...
The higher the list the more the juging becomes.... generous!!
I know of a few like this!!!
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That's interesting! Instinct would make me think it would be the opposite. That they might be trying harder to be accurate in their marking for fear of having their "work" viewed and commented on by a judge on a higher list.
yes i think some do. Think its proportional to the list you are on ...
The higher the list the more the juging becomes.... generous!!
I know of a few like this!!!
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That's interesting! Instinct would make me think it would be the opposite. That they might be trying harder to be accurate in their marking for fear of having their "work" viewed and commented on by a judge on a higher list.
Tierra
Well-Known Member
This used to happen all the time on the yard i was at. Our trainer was very popular in the local area. I distinctly remember grooming for her one day and her baby completly leaving the arena in a novice (full on jumped over the boards and ran off up their lawns), bronched his way through the canters and she won with around 72% which was a good 5% higher than anyone else. And nope, the others were far from awful and many produced very nice tests without leaving the arena 
It was common knowledge that one particular judge who was always at this venue really liked her horse and adored her! She'd always take her babies here to get them fast points as she was almost guarenteed to win.
We were a small competition yard and she was paid extra to go with them on competition days. She'd do all the warming up, she'd read the tests and most of them would come away with high placings and marks when i know of numerous occasions that they shouldnt have
I guess it works well for both the liveries and the trainer (they get placed when they dont really do the work.. she rode them everyday at home
She gets extra cash)... just feel sorry for the rest of the competitors
It was common knowledge that one particular judge who was always at this venue really liked her horse and adored her! She'd always take her babies here to get them fast points as she was almost guarenteed to win.
We were a small competition yard and she was paid extra to go with them on competition days. She'd do all the warming up, she'd read the tests and most of them would come away with high placings and marks when i know of numerous occasions that they shouldnt have
I guess it works well for both the liveries and the trainer (they get placed when they dont really do the work.. she rode them everyday at home
flatcoat2
Well-Known Member
I write quite often for all levels of judges and the majority seem to mark on what they see. In fact several have actually said things to the effect that the judge riding would not be impressed to get marks they didn't deserve. I can only recall one occasion when the judge indicated that she had been examined by the rider and I felt it made her rather generous!
Tempi
Well-Known Member
I think they definately do in our area - not sure what its like the rest of the country tho!
Its the same with top riders - when Andrew goes in to do a test he starts on an '8' in the judges mind and the score goes up and down from that. When i go in to ride a test i start on a '6'
It shouldnt happen, but it does.
Its the same with top riders - when Andrew goes in to do a test he starts on an '8' in the judges mind and the score goes up and down from that. When i go in to ride a test i start on a '6'
Partoow
Well-Known Member
The judge in question KNOWS this happens as she used to be my trainer!!! She has on several occations said she got a higher mark because of who she was.. so IT DOES happen!!
I would love to be able to get 70% for riding my horses that on their forehand!!!
But thats life.
You are right Mat the 'gamesmanship' of getting a 'known ' trainer to read the test also works... i know i've done it!! when i know the jugde likes the way i produce horses!!!! it means they will err on the plus not the negative so when they think 6 and a half they will give the 7!!
We also sometimes find that i get marked extra hard when the judge wants to make a point so its swings and round-abouts and one of the reasons at championships we have a panel of judges.
I would love to be able to get 70% for riding my horses that on their forehand!!!
But thats life.
You are right Mat the 'gamesmanship' of getting a 'known ' trainer to read the test also works... i know i've done it!! when i know the jugde likes the way i produce horses!!!! it means they will err on the plus not the negative so when they think 6 and a half they will give the 7!!
We also sometimes find that i get marked extra hard when the judge wants to make a point so its swings and round-abouts and one of the reasons at championships we have a panel of judges.
Laafet
Well-Known Member
Its the same in showing, if your horse comes from a well known producer or breeder then you can expect to be better placed. The breeder of Tarquin gave me a list of the judges that like his horses and those to avoid. Silly really its all meant to be done on what you see not who you know. As for dressage judges, my first trainer was a list 2 judge and occaisionally I would compete in unaffiliated under her, she always said that this was bad on my part as I would have to ride to my absolute best to get the scores as she knew exactly how well my horse could go but I always felt she judged fairly anyway. I have always liked the thought of a good trainer riding in my horse for me at a comp but never been able to afford it. I'm sure if someone saw Andrew Gould riding Murphy then reading for me it would bump up my scores for sure.
As for Tarquin, as he's showing more talent in the jumping area, I can atleast be assured that showjumping and to a slightly lesser extent eventing (because of the dressage element) is based purely on your ability not someone's opinion.
I do still compete dressage and showing and just allow for the fact that the judge might not like my two small, correct moving, accurate non-warmbloods.
As for Tarquin, as he's showing more talent in the jumping area, I can atleast be assured that showjumping and to a slightly lesser extent eventing (because of the dressage element) is based purely on your ability not someone's opinion.
I do still compete dressage and showing and just allow for the fact that the judge might not like my two small, correct moving, accurate non-warmbloods.
kanter
Well-Known Member
Yes definitely! Though an interesting situation arose at my local venue a few months ago when a very well known judge / rider / owner of rather advancing years went wrong three times in her test despite having a reader! I was in after her and my friend was in gallery and overheared long hushed debate between judge and writer about what to do as technically she should have been eliminated!
ETA same person a few weeks later got out of car half way through judging another friend doing her first elementary and told her that she shouldn't be doing rising trot .......
ETA same person a few weeks later got out of car half way through judging another friend doing her first elementary and told her that she shouldn't be doing rising trot .......
burtie
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately all judges are only human and it cannot help but effect the way they judge if a name is well known as a rider or judge or trainer. Luckily for me they all generally ride in the open section and I'm in restricted. I think this is one reason why this system actually works quite well!
Also I do think that if you are obviously the best you will generally win regardless of who you are, it just gets a bit more murky when you both made mistakes or didn't go well, then you tend to find you have been penalised a bit more than the name.
Also I do think that if you are obviously the best you will generally win regardless of who you are, it just gets a bit more murky when you both made mistakes or didn't go well, then you tend to find you have been penalised a bit more than the name.
JLav
Well-Known Member
Well I can assure you that when I judge it makes no difference whatsoever who the rider or trainer is. I judge solely what I see!!
I have given a couple of very famous riders deserved 0's and 2 complete nobody's 10's.
As far as I'm concerned if you cannot be unbiased re breed/rider/trainer/colour etc etc you have no job judging though I realise in the real world there are always going to be one or two who are influenced by a famous face or a flashy trot.
I have given a couple of very famous riders deserved 0's and 2 complete nobody's 10's.
As far as I'm concerned if you cannot be unbiased re breed/rider/trainer/colour etc etc you have no job judging though I realise in the real world there are always going to be one or two who are influenced by a famous face or a flashy trot.
at work
Well-Known Member
Doesn't always work - I remember one where my trainer, who should have been reading the test, was crying with laughter as my test went badly wrong
