BD's new 'competition structure' views
- Thread starter Ellie2893
- Start date
zizz
Well-Known Member
Copied and pasted from BD forum
The way I interpreted it is thus,
Bronze is the equivalent of training section in that the sheets can only be used for pet-plans, but now you will be allocated points and forced to move on after 50. So the bronze pet plan would be equivalent of restricted pet plan now.
Silver would qualify you for the 'open' pet plans and the equivalent of the restricted regionals and gold is the equivalent of the open regionals.
In theory I really like this idea!
My concerns would be the 15 point buffer isn't enough, say if you wanted to do pet plans at one level and regionals at a lower level, would you be pushed into 'open' gold regionals too quickly? I think perhaps the 50 point bronze section should be the buffer, so if you did a bronze medium you would be pushed into silver elementary immediately, but not pushed into gold elementary until you became a silver medium combination.
Lots of food for thought, but thank you BD for listening to us and trying to do something about it!
The way I interpreted it is thus,
Bronze is the equivalent of training section in that the sheets can only be used for pet-plans, but now you will be allocated points and forced to move on after 50. So the bronze pet plan would be equivalent of restricted pet plan now.
Silver would qualify you for the 'open' pet plans and the equivalent of the restricted regionals and gold is the equivalent of the open regionals.
In theory I really like this idea!
My concerns would be the 15 point buffer isn't enough, say if you wanted to do pet plans at one level and regionals at a lower level, would you be pushed into 'open' gold regionals too quickly? I think perhaps the 50 point bronze section should be the buffer, so if you did a bronze medium you would be pushed into silver elementary immediately, but not pushed into gold elementary until you became a silver medium combination.
Lots of food for thought, but thank you BD for listening to us and trying to do something about it!
star
Well-Known Member
The way I see it is that all the pros who aren't Group One will be in the silver section which could make it pretty hard to get any placings on an ordinary horse. I'm not sure that's preferable to current system. It's good they're trying to sort something but not sure what they've proposed so far is the final solution.
Eventer96
Well-Known Member
I agree with star! It's a big change and not one I can see being the final solution. The system they've proposed is no less complicated than the one that is already in place. Would they not be better to provide every new member with a breakdown of how the system works so there is better clarification? It doesn't take too long to get to grips with and I think the fact you could score 9 points for a 76% is a bit crazy because you're then going to be pushed 'sideways' as they call it very quickly! It's good that they are listening to member's feedback. However, I don't think this will be the revolutionary system.
Booboos
Well-Known Member
This is hilarious! They are proposing to swap a really complicated system with a different, really complicated system. If you need a diagram to explain it, it's not worth it.
Farma
Well-Known Member
If group 5 are those with novice points what group are those who compete prelim or haven't won any novice points?
khalswitz
Well-Known Member
I like it. For someone who is relatively new to BD anyway, this seems MUCH easier to grasp than the current qualifying mess that I still don't understand. LOVE the idea of bronze, silver, gold - and in response to Eventer96, I LIKE the fact that people regularly scoring 70+ will be shifted sideways very quickly, as it keeps the 'lower' sideways level for those still training/gaining experience for that level, and a 70+ score is being successful let's face it.
I like that you don't HAVE to move up based on points, but that you will still be challenged at the level you are at - going from braze to silver or silver to gold. Also nice that you could in theory still be competing at silver, then gold in prelim, whilst gaining experience at novice, without feeling like you're being shunted out of prelim completely (even once your scores are at novice silver you could still do prelim classes as a warmup/after a break from competing).
They will face a lot of opposition, as people are naturally conservative about change, but as someone new to BD this system makes much more sense and is much more appealing than the current one, which takes a lot of page flicking through the handbook to work out (and then there are still different rules for prelim!!)
I like that you don't HAVE to move up based on points, but that you will still be challenged at the level you are at - going from braze to silver or silver to gold. Also nice that you could in theory still be competing at silver, then gold in prelim, whilst gaining experience at novice, without feeling like you're being shunted out of prelim completely (even once your scores are at novice silver you could still do prelim classes as a warmup/after a break from competing).
They will face a lot of opposition, as people are naturally conservative about change, but as someone new to BD this system makes much more sense and is much more appealing than the current one, which takes a lot of page flicking through the handbook to work out (and then there are still different rules for prelim!!)
khalswitz
Well-Known Member
Also to add - was the 62% score at Adv required before to compete PSG, or s that new too? (Someone who competes at that level?)
cobden
Well-Known Member
i like it.i think its easier and more straightforward than the existing system. im sure there will be some people who arent happy but i thnk its a good start
Farma
Well-Known Member
Also will there be 3 separate sections for each test ie bronze, silver, gold as opposed to open/restricted? If so I guess there will be less people in each section as split into 3 rather than 2>?
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
Actually I don't think it seems too complicated to understand. It looks like any combination can compete at any level. What they can't do is ride at every section. So a group 1 rider can ride at every level but they can only compete in Gold. A horse can only compete in bronze if it has less that 50 points at that level or below or less than 15 points in the level above. They can compete in silver up to 150 points and gold unlimited. If you choose to ride bronze then you can only aim for pet plans. Where I think you may get trouble is the semi-pros who are not group 1 may dominate silver. 
tiggs
Well-Known Member
I like it but I think they might have to rethink the prize money rules. It says that rosettes will be awarded by section but prize money will be given on the class results overall. So you could have experienced horses in the gold section winning all the prize money at lower levels that previously they wouldn't have been able to enter.
Fuzzypuff
Well-Known Member
What really bothers me is that a group 2 rider, ie. someone who has ridden to Inter I level, can go in at bronze prelim on a new horse. So, someone who is completely new to dressage starting out for the first time on an inexperienced horse could potentially be competing against someone who has previously ridden numerous horses at Inter I on an inexperienced horse. I fear the amateur riders who are currently restricted will not have a chance at any of the championships, especially regionals/nationals.
In theory the group 2 riders may stick to regionals leaving areas for the more amateur types however we see now the pros working the system as best they can and this will only get much worse. You will get a 2nd tier of pros who will purposely only ride to Inter I or below so they can continually bring new young horses up the levels from prelim and clean up at the champs to put value on horses for sale.
This will only serve to make the sport more elitist and I think many of the amateurs who currently aim for the areas in the hope of making it to the finals, or those who are currently restricted and aim for regionals/nationals, will think twice about competing BD and aim for unaffiliated champs instead. I really cannot see how this will benefit the sport.
I do agree that something should be done to help those who have horses who reach an ability ceiling and wish to continue to compete.
I also had some sympathy for those who might have trained one horse up to say PSG and then are starting from scratch on a young horse and are Open all the way up against the true multi-horse pros, however if this is the alternative then I am massively against as I think it is far less fair to pit those people against those completely new to a level on a totally inexperienced horse.
Additionally those first-time amateurs will also be less likely to ever win prize money, as this will be worked out over all across the class, to include much more experienced horses (Valegro at prelim would technically be possible) and much more experienced riders (Carl Hester at prelim also technically possible). At least now the top level of riders cannot compete below medium, affording some protection to the restricted riders at the lower levels. I actually do not think that we have anything to fear from Valegro or Carl at the lower levels however there are a lower tier of pros who currently work the system very efficiently and these proposed changes would make it even easier for them to do that. Some are arguing why would a pro WANT to do nationals at prelim, or petplans at all, but we see it now with pros doing petplan classes but at least currently they are usually open leaving restricted for the less experienced, with this they would all be stuck in together.
I think for the amateur it would become even more about what horse you buy and to be competitive people would want to buy a horse that is either a total schoolmaster that they can ride at gold up the levels, or one that is flashy and has been schooled way above the lower levels that they can take in at prelim bronze and silver to try and qualify. I don't see how the less experienced rider on an ordinary horse that they have trained themselves will ever stand a chance to make it to a championship final.
In theory the group 2 riders may stick to regionals leaving areas for the more amateur types however we see now the pros working the system as best they can and this will only get much worse. You will get a 2nd tier of pros who will purposely only ride to Inter I or below so they can continually bring new young horses up the levels from prelim and clean up at the champs to put value on horses for sale.
This will only serve to make the sport more elitist and I think many of the amateurs who currently aim for the areas in the hope of making it to the finals, or those who are currently restricted and aim for regionals/nationals, will think twice about competing BD and aim for unaffiliated champs instead. I really cannot see how this will benefit the sport.
I do agree that something should be done to help those who have horses who reach an ability ceiling and wish to continue to compete.
I also had some sympathy for those who might have trained one horse up to say PSG and then are starting from scratch on a young horse and are Open all the way up against the true multi-horse pros, however if this is the alternative then I am massively against as I think it is far less fair to pit those people against those completely new to a level on a totally inexperienced horse.
Additionally those first-time amateurs will also be less likely to ever win prize money, as this will be worked out over all across the class, to include much more experienced horses (Valegro at prelim would technically be possible) and much more experienced riders (Carl Hester at prelim also technically possible). At least now the top level of riders cannot compete below medium, affording some protection to the restricted riders at the lower levels. I actually do not think that we have anything to fear from Valegro or Carl at the lower levels however there are a lower tier of pros who currently work the system very efficiently and these proposed changes would make it even easier for them to do that. Some are arguing why would a pro WANT to do nationals at prelim, or petplans at all, but we see it now with pros doing petplan classes but at least currently they are usually open leaving restricted for the less experienced, with this they would all be stuck in together.
I think for the amateur it would become even more about what horse you buy and to be competitive people would want to buy a horse that is either a total schoolmaster that they can ride at gold up the levels, or one that is flashy and has been schooled way above the lower levels that they can take in at prelim bronze and silver to try and qualify. I don't see how the less experienced rider on an ordinary horse that they have trained themselves will ever stand a chance to make it to a championship final.
khalswitz
Well-Known Member
I don't see what's wrong with a baby horse with no points (as would have to be bronze prelim) with its g2 rider being up against people who haven't done dressage before. For the horse to compete at regionals, they have to compete silver anyway - what pro is going to waste time in bronze then? Plus the limit on points meaning that a high scoring horse with a pro rider won't last long in bronze/silver sections before having to move sideways.
Maybe having been an eventer first and being used to competing in lower levels against pros on their green horses I have a different view though...