BE….again

[Patterdale]

I SO want to join and support BE. I really, really do! I’ve been a long term member years ago, they’ve been a great organisation and I really do want to give my support.

But I just can’t! I rang the office this morning - before I continue, the two ladies I spoke to could not have been more friendly or helpful, this is no reflection on the staff - for advice on which membership I should purchase as I’m hoping to have a go at qualifying for the 80 champs at Bramham.

I was told that it’s not actually possible to qualify for 2023 any more, that ship has sailed. There’s nothing currently to aim for at 80. They may be overhauling the qualification system as it’s such hard work currently, but there’s no information on how or when this might happen. So even if I did join and win an 80, it wouldn’t mean anything, and my 6 year old horse would be a minimum of 8 before he could go to Bramham, even assuming he won every event he did until then.

They suggested I just do PAYG membership for the fun of running and the experience, but I can do that unaffiliated for FAR less money and hassle. I genuinely cannot afford to spend hundreds more on BE this year than unaffiliated, just to support the venues and the organisation. As much as I would love to!

It’s such a sad state of affairs when you ring up and say ‘I really want to rejoin’ and you basically get told that there’s no point. I’ll be emailing BE and giving them this feedback too.

I’m genuinely worried that we are going to lose our sport here ?

 

[ihatework]

Hang on. They didn’t tell you there was no point?
There are plenty of positive points for rejoin.
You are just choosing not to, which is of course your prerogative.

 

[Patterdale]

Hang on. They didn’t tell you there was no point?
There are plenty of positive points for rejoin.
You are just choosing not to, which is of course your prerogative.

They did actually, as in there’s nothing currently to aim for.

Please give me some positive points to rejoin for a horse at 80?? I’d love them! But they have to be worth circa £300. The only one I can come up with (that I want to support them) isn’t worth that much sadly. There are lots of causes I want to support, but can’t give them hundreds of pounds.

 

[Chuffy99]

Won’t your win allow you to go to a regional final to qualify for Bramham in the future

 

[Patterdale]

Won’t your win allow you to go to a regional final to qualify for Bramham in the future

Apparently not at this point!? Not that I’m expecting to win….! But still.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Is it too late to target 2 double clears or top 20% and qualify for Frickley? If they still do that.

 

[Michen]

Out of interest what are you looking to aim for. I run BE in between unaff due to location, ground, venue preference. I’ve qualified for some area festival for NQ for badminton but that’s absolutely not why I go BE.

it’s also really not much more expensive (£10 or so per entry now I think) to do a BE than an Unaff

 

[LEC]

Have they binned the team 80 competition they used to run at 80/90?
I do think they need to rethink the GR champs thing but have another 2 years I think of area festivals to run as tendered them out.
Its a massive issue for BE. I won a unaff 100 the other day and qualify for a champs this year. The same horse is off to RC champs as well…. It’s why I tend to run at unaff more at 90 and mix it up at 100.

 

[Patterdale]

Out of interest what are you looking to aim for. I run BE in between unaff due to location, ground, venue preference. I’ve qualified for some area festival for NQ for badminton but that’s absolutely not why I go BE.

it’s also really not much more expensive (£10 or so per entry now I think) to do a BE than an Unaff

I want to aim for the 80 National Champs at Bramham. Ideally before they bin it off or move it to the South East..!
And then I want to aim for the 90 champs. If I could get back to 100 too then that is the ultimate dream!
I am very competitive (in a healthy way!) and although yes a day out just eventing is fun, I need an aim!

I might ring the office back and speak to someone else. Why are they still running area festivals if they’re not counting towards anything? It doesn’t really make sense so I’m now wondering if it’s correct.

 

[Grapefruit2021]

I was looking into it recently but couldn’t work out how much it actually costs? What is total entry fee per class?

 

[SusieT]

To be fair, July is quite late in the season to be thinking about aiming to qualify? That sort of thing normally would be planned at start of season?

 

[RachelFerd]

I think your results end of this year will count towards area festival quals next year - and therefore a route to Bramham 2024 (although I share the frustration about process taking too long - It's why I'm now glad to be messing around at the Nov/FEI stuff instead of aiming at grassroots).

Don't forget also lots of grassroots OBP percentage leagues now too. So plenty still to aim for.

 

[Patterdale]

To be fair, July is quite late in the season to be thinking about aiming to qualify? That sort of thing normally would be planned at start of season?

For a championship 11.5 months away?? It’s in June 2023.
So with a theoretical qualification this year (if that is the case), the champs competition would be minimum 18 months away, in 2024. Which is a long time with horses….or anything!

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I don't know why they don't mimic the U18s structure. Qualifying period is Autumn and Spring with 3 qualifying events in each with the Champs at Bishop Burton in late summer that same year. Works very well. If you fail to qualify you can immediately target the autumn qualifers rather than feeling like there is a long fallow period with nothing much to aim for. If you are late to get going or only ready after another winter of training, you can still qualify just with the Spring ones. And you are never waiting more than a year.

 

[Annagain]

I know so many people in my area who aren't bothering with BE any more but doing the Cotswold Cup instead. No membership fee, cheaper entries, the same (or even better) venues and courses, good organisation (according to reports) and a final that's not half way across the country. You can see why.

I got into a bit of a debate with someone on Facebook recently (a friend was asking about joining BE to do 80 and I said "why not give the CC a go?" and nothing more) who insisted that only BE had decent medical cover and that's why people should stick to BE, which is preposterous. No event can run without proper medical cover, the insurance won't allow it. I was very interested to see that the same person was organising a Pony Club event last weekend including unaffiliated classes above so they've obviously changed their mind on that.

 

[ihatework]

Cotswold cup around here is massive, understandably, and very comparable to BE. I’m sure with incoming 4/5yo’s I’ll utilise it alongside goBE where possible in the early stages. I am however in the use it or loose it camp for BE.

But these competitions are used by a lot of advanced pros with expensive young horsepower. If I were a true grassroots rider I might be more tempted to go BE so I was truly competing against my peers if that were important to me.

 

[Annagain]

Cotswold cup around here is massive, understandably, and very comparable to BE. I’m sure with incoming 4/5yo’s I’ll utilise it alongside goBE where possible in the early stages. I am however in the use it or loose it camp for BE.

But these competitions are used by a lot of advanced pros with expensive young horsepower. If I were a true grassroots rider I might be more tempted to go BE so I was truly competing against my peers if that were important to me.

Yes there was quite a fuss over the winner of the 80 championship last year (a 5* rider, albeit on a young horse) if I remember rightly. I suppose they'd have to ride HC to take these youngsters round BE so no hope of any return. With an overall £10,000 prize pot for the championship classes, there's a decent chance of something back.

I do agree on the use it or lose it but maybe this is the kick up the backside BE need to change things a bit and be a bit more user friendly

 

[Ample Prosecco]

A 10K prize seems overkill! I don't think the Brigante Cup has anything like that and I have not seen any pros challenging for it. I just really enjoyed the struture of trying to qualify and the fact that it was a points league so you felt like you had a chance with consistently good performances rather than having to have one outstanding performance. I didn't make it but it was fun trying!

I am also in the use it or lose it BE camp but they do not do themselves any favours. I documented my efforts to enter Stafford in real time - 3 days! What's the point of a 'Please enter now to save the event' plea when it take 3 days and mutiple steps to get entered for the first time. It's a HUGE barrier to people getting going in the first place. And it is those people who are desperately needed. People who are already members with validated horses are likely to still do a bit of BE but they need to attract others who might like to give it a go but have no strong loyalty yet. I see so many posts on FB from people struggling to enter for the first time. I've said this before but I think an illuminating study BE should do is to look at how many people start the process of entering an event and give up before they get there. I imagine it is absolutely loads.

Not only is that a loss of possible entries but it also makes people annoyed with and therefore negative about BE. You could not design a worse way to try and build a business than to make the first contact or purchase complicated, frustrating and time consuming.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Re Stafford BE, I answered a last minute call on FB that they were desperate for Fence Judges saying that I would do all day, and they didn't even bother to reply. A 'thanks for offering but we're now sorted' wouldn't have gone amiss. So now I don't bother to respond to panicky appeals for volunteers.

 

[Annagain]

A 10K prize seems overkill! I don't think the Brigante Cup has anything like that and I have not seen any pros challenging for it. I just really enjoyed the struture of trying to qualify and the fact that it was a points league so you felt like you had a chance with consistently good performances rather than having to have one outstanding performance. I didn't make it but it was fun trying!

I am also in the use it or lose it BE camp but they do not do themselves any favours. I documented my efforts to enter Stafford in real time - 3 days! What's the point of a 'Please enter now to save the event' plea when it take 3 days and mutiple steps to get entered for the first time. It's a HUGE barrier to people getting going in the first place. And it is those people who are desperately needed. People who are already members with validated horses are likely to still do a bit of BE but they need to attract others who might like to give it a go but have no strong loyalty yet. I see so many posts on FB from people struggling to enter for the first time. I've said this before but I think an illuminating study BE should do is to look at how many people start the process of entering an event and give up before they get there. I imagine it is absolutely loads.

Not only is that a loss of possible entries but it also makes people annoyed with and therefore negative about BE. You could not design a worse way to try and build a business than to make the first contact or purchase complicated, frustrating and time consuming.

10k is the overall prize fund not THE prize. There are 6 championship classes (80,90 and 100 junior and senior). I think it was £1000 to the winner of each one and then a sliding scale down to 6th. Not sure if the juniors got the same - I think they might have had that value in training or something like that?

ETA it seems the £10,000 is for the senior sections only, the training the juniors get is in addition to that. Prizes | Cotswold Cup

 

[TPO]

Re Stafford BE, I answered a last minute call on FB that they were desperate for Fence Judges saying that I would do all day, and they didn't even bother to reply. A 'thanks for offering but we're now sorted' wouldn't have gone amiss. So now I don't bother to respond to panicky appeals for volunteers.

Same, that happened up here last year. Urgent call for volunteers or it wouldn't run. I organised a small group then messaged the person on fb and then email to get zero response.

Never had great experiences as a volunteer so that was the final nail in the coffin.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

On the flip side - just did an unaff 90 with a full up fence in the middle of the water..... It did not go well! I don;t like course builders who put in fences never seen at the level BE. Others may disagree but I train for everything I might find at each level so I am setting my horse up for success. I don't understand why they do it tbh.

 

[LEC]

On the flip side - just did an unaff 90 with a full up fence in the middle of the water..... It did not go well! I don;t like course builders who put in fences never seen at the level BE. Others may disagree but I train for everything I might find at each level so I am setting my horse up for success. I don't understand why they do it tbh.

It’s the problem with unaff. On the whole round here I find they match the BE guidelines at unaff - I can hear Rachel Ferd already…… guidelines, rules, course design with BE ?

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Yes I have run into this before. Katie did a 60 where most of the fences were tiny - 30/40. Virtually trip hazards. Then they had a sizeable drop into water! She had an unwanted bath that day.

 

[RachelFerd]

It’s the problem with unaff. On the whole round here I find they match the BE guidelines at unaff - I can hear Rachel Ferd already…… guidelines, rules, course design with BE ?

Oh god, I feel summoned. I can't go through it all again on this thread... but fences in the water at 90... a totally inappropriate question. Should only come in at BE105, and only if it has a black flag alternative. Perfectly reasonable question at novice. And of course, helpful to have lots of schooling venues with fences in the water at 80/90 level to train, but not compete, over.

And it is great when unaff events do match guidelines to create safe experiences for less experienced horses/riders. BUT the guidelines only exist because there's an organisation which has written and developed them (and keeps developing them as we find out more about safe design, through research).

Unaff series effectively replacing the entire grassroots BE calendar in the SouthWest-Central region are damaging to the sport as a whole.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Well I am glad my reservations were not unreasonable. I do want to support BE. I entered both Stafford and Cholmondeley. I just hope they address some of the problems to make it easier to do it!

 

[RachelFerd]

Well I am glad my reservations were not unreasonable. I do want to support BE. I entered both Stafford and Cholmondeley. I just hope they address some of the problems to make it easier to do it!

where was this event btw? pm if you prefer!

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Pmed. It was a bit of a nightmare start to finish tbh. The weekend thread gives a fuller account of how it all unravelled for a big fat E.

 

[claracanter]

I rode at the Bramham be80 Championships this year. It was a lovely event, fantastic xc course but lots of improvements needed admin wise. I hope they sort them out for next year! If you do qualify, you have to be a fully paid up member to go, so PAYG becomes irrelevant. I was a big BE fan but have subsequently gone UA