VRIN
Well-Known Member
BE has just announced from 1st August all BE events will run with FEI rule -one fall on XC and you are out...
BE adopts 'one fall and out'
- Thread starter VRIN
- Start date
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
Grrrrrrrr I do think this is ridiculous.
Pancakes
Well-Known Member
i agree lec, everyone can make mistakes when riding. IMO thats stupid how are ppl going to gain experience if they just get eliminated for the slightest thing!!!
ajn1610
Well-Known Member
I came on just now to post about that and ask for opinions!
I agree, there are falls and falls aren't there? I've plopped off the side when my horse has spooked at a spectator had a good laugh at myself got back on and jumped a good clear. There are people who through sheer dumb luck stay on despite obviously poor riding and lack of judgement as to pace etc.
IMO they should stop beating round the bush and just get people to take a competency test. You could just have a lesson with an accredited trainer and have them sign something to say you are ok for the level you want to compete at (like the used to do for the children). All these measures don't actually help safety, you are just as likely to get hurt on the first fall as the second.
I agree, there are falls and falls aren't there? I've plopped off the side when my horse has spooked at a spectator had a good laugh at myself got back on and jumped a good clear. There are people who through sheer dumb luck stay on despite obviously poor riding and lack of judgement as to pace etc.
IMO they should stop beating round the bush and just get people to take a competency test. You could just have a lesson with an accredited trainer and have them sign something to say you are ok for the level you want to compete at (like the used to do for the children). All these measures don't actually help safety, you are just as likely to get hurt on the first fall as the second.
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
I have put a post on BE forum saying that they should have put it to open forum first before making a decision on this with opinions from riders, trainers, judges and owners.
http://www.britisheventing.com/messages.asp?topicid=727&section=0001000100340001
http://www.britisheventing.com/messages.asp?topicid=727&section=0001000100340001
Diane_Pepper
Well-Known Member
Oh poop
Maybe we should get eliminated after the first refusal too, as the horse may have a weak mental state?!
Maybe we should get eliminated after the first refusal too, as the horse may have a weak mental state?!
Britestar
Well-Known Member
Can you still fall off twice in the SJ????
ajn1610
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Oh poop
Maybe we should get eliminated after the first refusal too, as the horse may have a weak mental state?!
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh heck, in my case in the SJ it's the rider in the weak mental state!
Oh poop
Maybe we should get eliminated after the first refusal too, as the horse may have a weak mental state?!
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh heck, in my case in the SJ it's the rider in the weak mental state!
Diane_Pepper
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh poop
Maybe we should get eliminated after the first refusal too, as the horse may have a weak mental state?!
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh heck, in my case in the SJ it's the rider in the weak mental state!
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL!
same here - maybe we'll end up getting mental health checks before we get on too
[ QUOTE ]
Oh poop
Maybe we should get eliminated after the first refusal too, as the horse may have a weak mental state?!
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh heck, in my case in the SJ it's the rider in the weak mental state!
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL!
Thistle
Well-Known Member
Is this like the FEI 'one fall at an obstacle' so you could still fall off on the flat or in the warmup.
How will all these instant E's teach a young horse anything except that if you dump you rider you don't need to do any more work.
There will be many more horses with E's on their record now.
Talk about a NANNY STATE
How will all these instant E's teach a young horse anything except that if you dump you rider you don't need to do any more work.
There will be many more horses with E's on their record now.
Talk about a NANNY STATE
milz88
Well-Known Member
Thats so annoying, I know its all in the name of health and safety etc, gone are are the days of rider toughness and determination to finsish, we won't even be allowed to do that anymore, I'm sure if I fell off through a 'slip or trip' then just carted my horse off the course, he'd be highly confused and disappointed, as would I.
It is a shame, I think that doctors and medics know enough to tell if a person is seriously injured enough not to contine, or if there is the slightest chance they could have consussion etc due to the nature of the fall, along with the fence judges discretion, isn't that enough to determine whether they can contine?
It is a shame, I think that doctors and medics know enough to tell if a person is seriously injured enough not to contine, or if there is the slightest chance they could have consussion etc due to the nature of the fall, along with the fence judges discretion, isn't that enough to determine whether they can contine?
Bubblegum
Well-Known Member
The competency test, whilst extremely difficult to implement, would be a much better way forward IMO too.
Surely this has always been one of the skills of riding XC that we have all had to learn... whether or not you and your horse are fit to continue if you have a minor fall......
Surely this has always been one of the skills of riding XC that we have all had to learn... whether or not you and your horse are fit to continue if you have a minor fall......
ajn1610
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
The competency test, whilst extremely difficult to implement, would be a much better way forward IMO too.
Surely this has always been one of the skills of riding XC that we have all had to learn... whether or not you and your horse are fit to continue if you have a minor fall......
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree totally. My initial gut reaction to a test would be negative but it would be a lot preferable to the way things are heading at the moment. I think if BE are genuinely concerned with safety they need to assess if people are fit to compete before accepting their registration. It is no good after the fact. If people were assessed by a BE trainer during a lesson those who weren't up to scratch could been given areas to work on BEFORE they spend hundreds of pounds registering themselves, their horses, entering, travelling etc.
The competency test, whilst extremely difficult to implement, would be a much better way forward IMO too.
Surely this has always been one of the skills of riding XC that we have all had to learn... whether or not you and your horse are fit to continue if you have a minor fall......
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree totally. My initial gut reaction to a test would be negative but it would be a lot preferable to the way things are heading at the moment. I think if BE are genuinely concerned with safety they need to assess if people are fit to compete before accepting their registration. It is no good after the fact. If people were assessed by a BE trainer during a lesson those who weren't up to scratch could been given areas to work on BEFORE they spend hundreds of pounds registering themselves, their horses, entering, travelling etc.
SpottedCat
Well-Known Member
Totally ridiculous over-reaction - wonder how many more horses will now be written off when they (as sharp youngsters) learn the 'dump the rider and its back to the lorry for a nice haynet' trick?!
Bossanova
Well-Known Member
It's tricky because BE have always tried to stay in line with the FEI so I understand why they had to make the decision though I bet many were opposed to it!!
It will be a shock but I dont necessarily think it will be a huge issue, esp at novice level and above. I expect those hardest hit will be the more amateur riders.
I'll be cross if I have a stupid fall due to peck on landing etc and am not able to complete when I feel we really should but in these circumstances I will take the horse back in the warm up and school it on the flat and pop some fences- as far as I understand, there's nothing in the rules about that
It will be a shock but I dont necessarily think it will be a huge issue, esp at novice level and above. I expect those hardest hit will be the more amateur riders.
I'll be cross if I have a stupid fall due to peck on landing etc and am not able to complete when I feel we really should but in these circumstances I will take the horse back in the warm up and school it on the flat and pop some fences- as far as I understand, there's nothing in the rules about that
Casper_cb
Well-Known Member
I think in the long run this new fall = elimination could cause more harm than good. I think people may end up riding slower into fences, checking and setting up more, feeling it's safer when it's not, and there may be more horse falls as a result of riders over guarding and interfering too much with a horses natural jump in an attempt to avoid a bad jump which could result in falling off. (if that makes sense?)
Maybe they should bring the proximity to the fence rule back in. At Borde Hill I dismounted due to being unseated at the fence but was a good 100m from the fence when I got off. I tried to wriggle back into the saddle but decided it was easier to dismount. Got off onto my feet. Now under the new rule I would be eliminated?! Surely it was safer for me to get off and remount than wriggle around and possible unbalance my horse, should he still have been moving, and cause him to fall? I could have got back on without dismounting but chose not to. (I accept 65 pen but E?)
This new rule just makes me a little sad. Falls should be graded like horse falls are, if the rider lands on their head, back, chest fair enough, but on their feet?!
Maybe they should bring the proximity to the fence rule back in. At Borde Hill I dismounted due to being unseated at the fence but was a good 100m from the fence when I got off. I tried to wriggle back into the saddle but decided it was easier to dismount. Got off onto my feet. Now under the new rule I would be eliminated?! Surely it was safer for me to get off and remount than wriggle around and possible unbalance my horse, should he still have been moving, and cause him to fall? I could have got back on without dismounting but chose not to. (I accept 65 pen but E?)
This new rule just makes me a little sad. Falls should be graded like horse falls are, if the rider lands on their head, back, chest fair enough, but on their feet?!
pinktiger
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
It's tricky because BE have always tried to stay in line with the FEI so I understand why they had to make the decision though I bet many were opposed to it!!
It will be a shock but I dont necessarily think it will be a huge issue, esp at novice level and above. I expect those hardest hit will be the more amateur riders.
I'll be cross if I have a stupid fall due to peck on landing etc and am not able to complete when I feel we really should but in these circumstances I will take the horse back in the warm up and school it on the flat and pop some fences- as far as I understand, there's nothing in the rules about that
[/ QUOTE ]
totally ditto this^^^^ its coming in whether we like it or not get that velcro out!!!
It's tricky because BE have always tried to stay in line with the FEI so I understand why they had to make the decision though I bet many were opposed to it!!
It will be a shock but I dont necessarily think it will be a huge issue, esp at novice level and above. I expect those hardest hit will be the more amateur riders.
I'll be cross if I have a stupid fall due to peck on landing etc and am not able to complete when I feel we really should but in these circumstances I will take the horse back in the warm up and school it on the flat and pop some fences- as far as I understand, there's nothing in the rules about that
[/ QUOTE ]
totally ditto this^^^^ its coming in whether we like it or not get that velcro out!!!
Miss Tipps
Well-Known Member
='This is terrible!!!! So awful - it really doesn't make any sense at all except to protect a tiny minority who would get back on and continue in an unfit state. But if we're honest those people are going to get hurt anyway, one way or another, because they have no sense.
I'm not a super-experienced eventer, I'm 'coming up through the ranks' (hopefully) but I would hate to think that I'd have to skulk off back to the lorry park because of a silly, harmless fall just because one idiot on the planet had no sense of their own safety.
Anyway I'll shut up now or I'll just go off on a rant. I said what I thought yesterday on a similar post
.
I'm not a super-experienced eventer, I'm 'coming up through the ranks' (hopefully) but I would hate to think that I'd have to skulk off back to the lorry park because of a silly, harmless fall just because one idiot on the planet had no sense of their own safety.
Anyway I'll shut up now or I'll just go off on a rant. I said what I thought yesterday on a similar post
Sarah_Jane
Well-Known Member
I have two perspectives to put on this. Firstly as an amature rider who is looking to do her first advanced it is a big achievement just to complete and I would hate to be jumped off or stumble cause me to come out the side door and then I cannot get on and complete. I really feel this a huge shame and big dissapointment to me.
With my other hat on I am a Health and safety enforcement officer and constantly trying to promote sensible risk management. Whilst I don't know the facts and figures I am not aware of an serious accidents that have been contributed to by an earlier fall. Indeed whilst I accept a doctor will have a quick look over fallers multiple horse riders will be allowed to compete other horses. I can see an element of increased risk from this new rule with some riders trying to hang on all costs rather than let go and accept the inevitable. Whilst I accept that we are in a climate of increased concern regarding eventing accidents I feel the measures already in place are sufficient and this new rule is over kill.
The lack of consultation also dissapoints me in such a computer friendly age it is quick and easy to let members know what is happening and proposed changes. Also let us here the evidence for this change then maybe we will feel able to support it. I am very dissapointed with both the FEI and BE over this.
With my other hat on I am a Health and safety enforcement officer and constantly trying to promote sensible risk management. Whilst I don't know the facts and figures I am not aware of an serious accidents that have been contributed to by an earlier fall. Indeed whilst I accept a doctor will have a quick look over fallers multiple horse riders will be allowed to compete other horses. I can see an element of increased risk from this new rule with some riders trying to hang on all costs rather than let go and accept the inevitable. Whilst I accept that we are in a climate of increased concern regarding eventing accidents I feel the measures already in place are sufficient and this new rule is over kill.
The lack of consultation also dissapoints me in such a computer friendly age it is quick and easy to let members know what is happening and proposed changes. Also let us here the evidence for this change then maybe we will feel able to support it. I am very dissapointed with both the FEI and BE over this.
Fiona
Well-Known Member
I think this is a really stupid rule and a total over-reaction, as the letter in H&H said last week - is there any scientific evidence that riders remounting after a fall go on to have subsequent fall/injuries. If there is then show it to us, if there isn't then why the h*** treat us like babies who can't think for ourselves.
Like SC and others have said, I would rather have to be assessed before registering/moving up than have this new rule foisted on us!!!
Replying to Boss...I always thought that if eliminated that was it!!! WHen I was E for 3 stops at a trakhener on my ditchy horse last year I had to ask the society steward for permission to take the horse back into the warmup for a couple of pops.
Fiona
CastleMouse
Well-Known Member
It's ridiculous IMO...
Sir_Gwain
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Like SC and others have said, I would rather have to be assessed before registering/moving up than have this new rule foisted on us!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Assessment is a great idea but I can´t see BE going for it as they would loose money from registrations of horse and riders.
Like SC and others have said, I would rather have to be assessed before registering/moving up than have this new rule foisted on us!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Assessment is a great idea but I can´t see BE going for it as they would loose money from registrations of horse and riders.
SpruceRI
Well-Known Member
I hope Unaff and RC's don't go the same way as then how will anyone train any horse to do it's job?
In the olden days before HSE, I've fallen off twice in a XC, laughed it off, got back on and carried on. If I'd have been injured I wouldn't have hesitated to have given up, as with a myriad of penalties it wasn't like I was going to come anywhere in the competition
In the olden days before HSE, I've fallen off twice in a XC, laughed it off, got back on and carried on. If I'd have been injured I wouldn't have hesitated to have given up, as with a myriad of penalties it wasn't like I was going to come anywhere in the competition
Baggybreeches
Well-Known Member
Whilst I think its a pain in the neck, I can also see the validity of it, and at the end of the day rules is rules. Everybody is equally at risk of the odd unfortunate fall, but if it saves just one horse or rider, who might not realise they are 'punching above their weight' then surely it is worth it?
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I hope Unaff and RC's don't go the same way as then how will anyone train any horse to do it's job?
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IMO a competition isnt the place to do the training anyway, that should've been done before it! I dont really see the issue, if you fall off you're not in with any chance of being placed anyway.
I hope Unaff and RC's don't go the same way as then how will anyone train any horse to do it's job?
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IMO a competition isnt the place to do the training anyway, that should've been done before it! I dont really see the issue, if you fall off you're not in with any chance of being placed anyway.
JetSetWilly
New User
I think it's very wet and gutless. Falling off is a normal part of riding. When you fall off, if you're just a bit dented, you pick yourself up and carry on. If you're too broken you decide that discretion is the better part of valour and leave it until another day. Why is everyone becoming so pathetic these days?
machannah
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure if you can go back and pop a fence, I got eliminated SJing once, and i popped a 2ft fence in the collecting ring just so i ended on a good note and got told off for it! The course builder said i know why you have done it, but just to let you know you cant!!
gloster_image
Well-Known Member
I want to know if this counts if you fall off on the flat or just at an obstacle?
Thistle
Well-Known Member
The BE rule says at an obstacle on the XC only.
British Eventing adopts one fall and out rule for XC
After thorough consideration and consultation, the Sport Committee of British Eventing has decided to follow the lead of the FEI and introduce the one fall and out rule for rider falls at a fence on the cross country phase at all national competitions with effect from 1st August 2008. The Sport Committee has however decided not to apply the same rule to the Show Jumping phase.
British Eventing adopts one fall and out rule for XC
After thorough consideration and consultation, the Sport Committee of British Eventing has decided to follow the lead of the FEI and introduce the one fall and out rule for rider falls at a fence on the cross country phase at all national competitions with effect from 1st August 2008. The Sport Committee has however decided not to apply the same rule to the Show Jumping phase.