BE -Calling Dressage Stewards/Organizers !!!

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B-B

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Why are riders wearing hot tweed jackets in the hot humid weather?

Its not the judges decision and today a rider struggled with faint after their test.

Wearing the number bibs is hot enough. All riders today had purple faces....what is there to gain by not allowing them to remove their jackets?

Come on BE, in hot weather its H&S issue if not common sense!:mad:
 
It is the BE steward's call. Did anyone ask? If it was Salperton I am sure she would have said yes but they have enough to think of so if someone asks the question then they can give the answer!!
 
At Stonar one year I did dressage in short sleeves but then we had to jump with jackets on as they followed PC rules and you had to have long sleeves. I then went xc in a polo shirt. Whole thing annoyed me a lot as it was 34 degrees.
 
BS judges are very sticky about no sleeves! Not really their call at BE but if they are tricky and anything happened then it could be awkward with H and S.
 
Riders dont tend to ask as they think its the rules....same for plaiting.

When its as hot as it is today, then a notice could be posted so riders are aware they are not going to be penalized for it.
 
I never really understand this short sleeves rule. Fair enough for xc in case you scrape your skin off on a fence but how many people honestly fall off at a dressage comp? While I would always, always wear a proper hat just in case I really don't think the H&S argument for long sleeves in dressage stands up. Even if you do fall off its only going to be onto grass or a nice surface.
 
B-B said:
Riders dont tend to ask as they think its the rules....same for plaiting.

When its as hot as it is today, then a notice could be posted so riders are aware they are not going to be penalized for it.
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It is for the rider's comfort not the steward's. Plaiting is not compulsory, just the done thing. Riders have a lot less to think about than the steward and if it means that much to them then they can ask.

wellsat said:
I never really understand this short sleeves rule. Fair enough for xc in case you scrape your skin off on a fence but how many people honestly fall off at a dressage comp? While I would always, always wear a proper hat just in case I really don't think the H&S argument for long sleeves in dressage stands up. Even if you do fall off its only going to be onto grass or a nice surface.
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Short sleeves are allowed for dressage but not sleeveless - not considered smart enough for competition. It is for show jumping that the judges want you to wear jackets in case you fall. After all, it is not for very long. It is advised that people wear sleeves for xc but it is not compulsory.
 
I dont agree that riders have less to think about....especially if they are not pro and or just starting out.

If its not a rule then its doesnt have to be the done thing. There are no marks gained or lost for it.
 
B-B said:
I dont agree that riders have less to think about....especially if they are not pro and or just starting out.

If its not a rule then its doesnt have to be the done thing. There are no marks gained or lost for it.
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I suggest you spend a day with the BE steward. For a start they have several hundred riders to think about, not just one. Then there is the dressage and how it runs, show jumping and how it runs, the xc and how it runs, not to mention the scoring, being available to look into any rule breaches, requests from riders, queries about fences, ground, etc., overseeing any accidents and generally being on call for any eventuality. This is all after inspecting and passing the sj and xc courses so I think they can be forgiven for not having as high priority whether the riders get a bit sweaty doing their dressage.

No, it doesn't have to be the done thing but it is. Riders take a pride in their horse's turnout and tradition dictates that they are plaited. If you want to start a new trend then that's fine but I don't think it will catch on any time soon.
 
I have plenty of first had experience thank you. And I stick to my original view.

The stewards are there for the riders..not the other way around.

And as for a trend, I have noticed that more and more are not plaiting, so I dont need to start anything....other than encourage riders to ask the stewards if they can remove their jackets...if they are not to busy!
 
B-B said:
The stewards are there for the riders..not the other way around.
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The BE steward is there to represent BE and see that the competition is run within their regulations. His responsibilities are to BE and the organisers and to see that the riders abide by the rules. They may think of saying that riders may ride without jackets in the dressage but they may well be more pre-occupied with other matters like whether the doctor and vet have arrived or supervising getting the fence judges onto the course or coping with a rider that hasn't got their horse's passport.

You may have stewarded part of an event like an arena for the dressage or a collecting ring in which case your responsibility is to the riders and getting them to their ring on time but this role is completely different to a BE steward.
 
It may have....but my invovement is greater than that....and Im there for the rider.

BE is holding a competition for its members. BE officials are paid for by members so work for members.

Yes they are policing the rules and the jacket rule is one of them and its a health and safety issue in 80deg heat. And they are not all consumed by emergencies all of the time. And there are more likely to be riders making mistakes due to the heat.

A simple sign at the warm up or parking would use up an hour.

Just common sense really.
 
In Australia where it gets considerably hotter and sticker than there it is up to the riders to ask for permission to ride with out jackets. I've seen a few entries for comps in Dec or Feb where the entry says 'jackets optional if hot, but shirt with sleeves (of some sort) & tie/stock still required.'

Long-sleeves XC does puzzle me as while I can see the logic, 100's of riders go XC here in short sleeves with out dire consequences. More likely to get 'dire' consequences in the form of heat stroke if you insisted on long sleeves.
 
I totally agree. BE need to change their rules. Being forced to wear silly jackets on boiling hot days is ridiculous, as is not being able to wear waterproof jackets on very wet days (they could make money from this - like BSJA, by only allowing BE approved rain jackets!).

Our sport will never be taken seriously until we bring it into line with other sports where fashion doesnt come into it. It should be purely about practicalities. Wearing a stupid stock and show jacket is not practical for anything! Sorry, but I'm all for modern sport fabrics etc. and yes, I do for example wear the newer BSJA jacket! C'mon BE, move with the times.

I dont think its anything to do with the officials/organisers allowing it though, it must surely be a BE rule?

So, just to confirm - is there really no rule to say you must plait (manes) for BE dressage??? I always assumed there was. Perhaps I will start a new trend, I find plaiting the most pointless thing in the world and simply uncomfortable for the horse! I never leave the plaits in for BE SJ for that very reason.
 
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"BE officials are paid for by members so work for members"

Please be aware that the BE Steward is not paid for their efforts but is a volunteer. If we are to encourage more people to take on this role then riders have to take some responsibility for themselves and ask if it's ok to ride withour jackets and not expect the BE steward to take on yet more commitments. We are all adults and should be able to think for ourselves.
 
It has nothing to do with being grown up....riders often think rules exist when actually they dont. I doubt many start out competing knowing every line of the rule book. And not doing so shouldnt imply they are lacking in anyway.

This is the same for other disciplines.

There are no rules for plaiting...and as said before no impact on marks.

A simple notice - perhaps on website - should help without over loading volunteers or higher officials.
 
If riders think rules exist when they don't then more fool them. It is not hard to look up rules/read the rule book. You don't even need to pay for it. Otherwise it is always possible to ask someone who has more knowledge of the sport and it's rules. It is the rider's responsibility to know and abide by the rules and not anybody else's to nanny them through like a child.

With regard to stocks and show jackets, the purpose of a stock is to support your neck. A silk stock is not that expensive and cooler than a cotton or polyester one. If it is that much of a hardship to wear one then wear ratcatcher with a collar and tie. Jackets are now made in modern materials that are lightweight and easy to wear. If you are worried about a little rain then maybe you should take up an indoor sport.
 
I've been at work today in a suit in a small room with an entire wall of windows and 30 hot sweaty teenagers that wasn't much fun either! If someone had a fainting fit it's more likely down to not taking on enough food and fluids before riding. I know it's unpleasant to get all togged up when it's hot but you only need to have your jacket on for a couple of minutes in the ring. If it's so hot that you can't bare that I'd question whether the conditions are acceptable for the horse to run in. After all he is (or should be!) doing most of the work. I think it's important to look smart, everyone is there putting the event on for our benefit, giving up their time as a vounteer the least you can do is be respectful towards them and show that in your dress.
 
Ok first to put my hand up as I havent actually been out competing at BE for 5 seasons but I never had a problem in asking if it was alright to compete without my jacket - and as soon as one rider does, then others quickly followed. Last one was Smiths Lawns on what seemed to be the hottest day of the year and I did my SJ with no jacket as well. As someone who has fence judged, written for the dressage judge and stewarded - I expected riders to ask me not the other way round. If you are doing this, there is enough pressure trying to find your riders, check they are correctly presented (no boots etc) and right bits before getting them in on time. As for the comment about no jackets - I seem to remember Stilemans (see I said it was a while ago) and a lot of riders did the XC in a waterproof jacket when I last fence judged.


Having come back to watch a few this season in prep for getting back out there, the only difference I have seen is that now people seem to be able to wear black jackets at intro and PN whereas previously, they could only wear rat catchers. That and the fact that my beloved beaglers are no longer BE stressage legal!

And I like to see standards maintained. In reality, you only get out to a few events and I take pride in turning myself and my horse out to the best standard I can. That for me means plaiting - I can't understand the comment that it hurts the horse! having had horses who can't bear their manes being pulled I am sure they would have reacted strongly if plaiting hurt.
 
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And how much do you pay for this benefit?

Rain?

There is nothing nannying about being more supportive to those just starting out. After all they do pay for it, and will go on to pay for it.

The classes at the lower levels are always the biggest so the starters (those who need hands held) are the bread and butter as well as the future.
 
B-B, I'm almost insulted on behalf of the riders who you are saying are completely scatter-brained, shy and generally incompetent of asking "Can I take my jacket off as it is fecking hot?"... PC children (children!) manage to go and ask their dressage judges if it's okay without their entire day falling to pieces!
 
Luci07 said:
And I like to see standards maintained. In reality, you only get out to a few events and I take pride in turning myself and my horse out to the best standard I can. That for me means plaiting - I can't understand the comment that it hurts the horse! having had horses who can't bear their manes being pulled I am sure they would have reacted strongly if plaiting hurt.
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Your choice.
 
Lolo said:
B-B, I'm almost insulted on behalf of the riders who you are saying are completely scatter-brained, shy and generally incompetent of asking "Can I take my jacket off as it is fecking hot?"... PC children (children!) manage to go and ask their dressage judges if it's okay without their entire day falling to pieces!
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Quite the opposite.

Taking jackets off has nothing to do with the judge....its in the rule book:rolleyes: (my original point?)

I would hope PC children would find another way to ask.
 
i agree with Luci07, and for me it's about respect for the judges, officials etc. yes, plaiting takes a little while (i take a minute per plait if using elaccy bands) but it's worth it.
ditto wearing a jacket, it's only for 5 mins or so (i put mine on a few mins before my test if it's a really hot day) and worth it to look smart. i've done dressage in 35 degrees with no breeze at all, it was like an oven, compared to that anything's cool!
i hate seeing standards slipping. at ALW BE a few years back someone was warming up for the novice on a grey, which not only wasn't plaited (the only 1 i saw there that wasn't) it was also absolutely filthy, covered in stable stains... no excuse for that imho. :( :( good turnout is part and parcel of competing, isn't it... or, why bother?
 
It is not.

Judges are not offended. The horse was marked on its way of going and would not have lost marks for the above. Its not showing. I thought everyone knew the rules?

Its your choice.
 
B-B said:
Quite the opposite.

Taking jackets off has nothing to do with the judge....its in the rule book:rolleyes:

I would hope PC children would find another way to ask.
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PC it's the judge's discretion, so polite children ask the judge and then there's an announcement put out that arena x will let you go jacket-less.

To be honest, I don't see what the problem is. Could you really not spare 5 minutes to ask someone a relatively simple question, or is your day really that horrendously hectic?

kerilli- totally with you. Plaiting takes 20 minutes with bands, 40 with thread (and the horse gets very excited and spins, or it would be less). Al has to warm up in her jacket (her horse loses all focus if you stop) and managed a test on Sunday at midday in an indoor school with no ventilation- it was an oven in there! Why bother complaining- a nice jacket looks smart and I've never felt restricted by mine.
 
Sorry, its in the rules. Its the organisers decision.

People dont ask and I did encourage people to, but they are under the assumption that its is the rule and they would be penalized.

As with your comment..some dont know every rule.

Rule 42
N.B. At the discretion of the Organiser, competitors may be permitted to ride without coats in excessively
hot weather,
 
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I think it was last year at Milton Keynes they put a notice up to say you could ride without a jacket as long as you have sleeves - short sleeves were acceptable. It was very hot but K warmed up without her jacket for both DR and SJ and then popped it on at the very last minute. I am a bit old school tbh and I think it has spread to her as she would not consider not wearing her jacket. I had clipped the pony out the day before by the way so he was nice naked and comfortable, he barely broke a sweat even after xc!
 
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