BE costs (and prize money) going up for 2014

Coming from the point of view that eventing is a hobby and that we never get near enough to even sniff a placing, let alone expect prizes of any kind... I dont understand the cuffuffle over prize money.

Theres a huge twitter campaign about the cost of eventing V prizes but it seems to be mainly the Pros driving the cause. In my opinion, if you cant make your job pay, you look for another. Simple. All of us would like bigger bonuses for doing better than the next person, but in my recent experience, bonuses in my line of work stopped about 15 years ago yet the cost of me getting to work is still going up. I see no point heading to Twitter to complain about it, I reckon I'm lucky to have a job !

As for putting up entry fees and memberships... Costs have risen for all of us, and that would include the cost of running events. I dont think 3% is unreasonable given the fact NFU put up my premium by 42% !!

It certainly wont put us off competing with BE, as, as Ive said before, its a hobby. And if we can afford to keep competing, we will still pay the man to have the fun... Its more likely to be the cost of diesel that curtails our trips out !
 
Luckily I only have one horse eventing at BE90, but I also have a young horse that I was hoping to get out next year, but it now means I won't be able to afford for them both to do the same event, and instead of maybe eventing twice a month , it will go down to once a month, it also means I'll have to do more pc and rc events and choice my BE events carefully.everything going up except from my wages
 
I was hoping to get my youngster out eventing next year alongside Ru but if the costs are increasing then I will probably look to the unaffiliated events which run over the same courses as BE and cost a lot less and no membership fees to worry about. I'm lucky in my area that there is quite a few to choose from.
Its getting very tempting to switch back to showjumping where you can come back in profit with a placing or two.
I would be happier with no prizes at BE but a much cheaper entry fee. I'm unlikely to be in the prizes and to me the taking part and doing well is my prize but if costs are such that I'm starting to struggle financially to fund my hobby then the hobby will have to be severely limited or changed.
 
I have changed my approach to eventing and now do two seperate seasons with 2 months off inbetween in order to recover from the costs. I also do not take a horse BE until its ready to go BE100 well which also saves a lot of money. I do the odd bit of unaff to give it the idea and then look to do a half season ticket with the BE100 runs.

I am struggling with getting my head round the reasoning behind putting costs up for Grades 1-3 horses but not 4 when the majority of the membership is grade 4. That in itself really annoys me in terms of fairness especially when the costs for grade 1-3 horses are significantly higher in terms of entries, start fees, membership and general running costs.
 
Can't say that I am surprised by the increase in membership costs. The problem is the majority of eventing is supported by amateur riders and we absorb these costs in order to enjoy out sport, and we all know what an expensive sport it is. I do think it would be better if we had better prize money etc but in the real world I doubt this will ever happen :-)
 
It doesn't surprise me at all.
An exceeding expensive sport to be in, I actually think we are pretty damn lucky in this country to have such access available to us.
Prize money - well, if that demanded increase was to be funded by the event organisers then the sums would need to be done and entry fees calculated accordingly. Until a time when there is routinely big name sponsorship I cannot see a living being made from Prize money. The pro's business income is so much wider than that.
 
How are they going to increase the prizes at intro and prenovice.....add 3% more bristles to the dandy brush?! If they quit with the prizes in kind nonsense to start with it would help, a hoof pick doesn't put diesel in the lorry etc. I can understand that the cost of everything is only going up but they are slowly alienating the people who help keep the sport going.
 
I think what is annoying a lot of people is the fact that at BE90/100 and even Novice, it's still amateurs. It's hobby level and so they give hobby level prizes. The problems come for the pros at the upper end of the sport really, paying the ridiculous entry fees and not getting it back for winning.

It matters for Al, because she can't afford to 'spaff her money' on 'pointless outings'. So until they can be relied upon to produce the goods her crew aren't doing BE. Reg probably won't do any more BE as a result- on a good day he could be top 10 at BE100. On a bad day he could be eliminated SJ for too many poles- not a risk worth taking. But in the end, everyone has to make these choices. The most vocal I've seen about entry fee prices have amusingly (aside from the guy starting it and Paul Tapner/ Mark Todd) been PT/ YR people. Which is truly hilarious, considering the thousands and thousands of £££ they spend every year anyway.
 
I agree totallY!
mrussell said:
Coming from the point of view that eventing is a hobby and that we never get near enough to even sniff a placing, let alone expect prizes of any kind... I dont understand the cuffuffle over prize money.

Theres a huge twitter campaign about the cost of eventing V prizes but it seems to be mainly the Pros driving the cause. In my opinion, if you cant make your job pay, you look for another. Simple. All of us would like bigger bonuses for doing better than the next person, but in my recent experience, bonuses in my line of work stopped about 15 years ago yet the cost of me getting to work is still going up. I see no point heading to Twitter to complain about it, I reckon I'm lucky to have a job !

As for putting up entry fees and memberships... Costs have risen for all of us, and that would include the cost of running events. I dont think 3% is unreasonable given the fact NFU put up my premium by 42% !!

It certainly wont put us off competing with BE, as, as Ive said before, its a hobby. And if we can afford to keep competing, we will still pay the man to have the fun... Its more likely to be the cost of diesel that curtails our trips out !
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LEC said:
I have changed my approach to eventing and now do two seperate seasons with 2 months off inbetween in order to recover from the costs. I also do not take a horse BE until its ready to go BE100 well which also saves a lot of money. I do the odd bit of unaff to give it the idea and then look to do a half season ticket with the BE100 runs.

I am struggling with getting my head round the reasoning behind putting costs up for Grades 1-3 horses but not 4 when the majority of the membership is grade 4. That in itself really annoys me in terms of fairness especially when the costs for grade 1-3 horses are significantly higher in terms of entries, start fees, membership and general running costs.
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It's a marketing supply and demand equation. The percentage of grade 4 horse owners who will choose/be forced not to run if the price rises is far higher than the percentage of higher graded horse owners. The sport needs volume at the bottom end to pay its bills. A price increase at that end could actually result in lower revenues as people choose either not to run or to run unaffiliated elsewhere.
 
The people at the bottom end are also paying to school over XC courses, paying for lessons from advanced riders and buying kit which would be more expensive if less of it was sold.
 
Frickley Park gave £150 first prize for 90 and 100 at their BE event yet others only give prizes in kind and as someone else said often things like brushes. I wonder how they did it . I think as a minimum first place at all levels should get their entry fee back.

Frickley Park prizes
" All BE90 and BE100 classes: Prize money will be awarded to competitors based on the number of starters per class in accordance with rule 3.14. The following prize money will apply to all classes on both days 1st £150, 2nd £100, 3rd £60, 4th £50, 5th £40, 6th £30. BE80(T): Prizes in kind "
 
armchair_rider said:
The people at the bottom end are also paying to school over XC courses, paying for lessons from advanced riders and buying kit which would be more expensive if less of it was sold.
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But it's still their hobby! I think the gist of the whole thing is, if you compete at BE100 and below you are almost definitely an amateur. A dedicated and talented one potentially, but an amateur. And it's a hobby. And so when you complain it's too expensive and prizes are too low, you do have the choice to say "this was my hobby and now it can't be in this form".

Running events is expensive. The reason unaff can do it cheaper is because the courses are sorted and set up from the affiliated, they don't need the same level of vet/ farrier/ ambulance cover, they aren't crippled with the same insurance premiums and you don't need the same level of proficiency. BE is supported by volunteers, but unaff stuff is run by volunteers!!
 
Lolo said:
But it's still their hobby! I think the gist of the whole thing is, if you compete at BE100 and below you are almost definitely an amateur. A dedicated and talented one potentially, but an amateur. And it's a hobby. And so when you complain it's too expensive and prizes are too low, you do have the choice to say "this was my hobby and now it can't be in this form".
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Indeed it is. My point is that the sport is only sustainable because of the 'hobby' people pumping their time and money into it. The more of those people are priced out then the more courses will be lost, the less specialist tack will be sold, and the more the pros will struggle for income. In other words, it's in everybody's interests to keep the cost of participating in BE events down.
 
I think its a mistake to do this at the lower (amateur) levels. Over novice, then fine they can do what they want as I believe this is often the cut off point for most amateurs / non-rich people! It certainly was for me as events bigger than novice would have involved a hell of a lot more travelling and expense which I couldn't do.

I don't really get the point though in increasing prize money AND entry fees by 3%?! Surely it defeats the purpose and they might as well leave it they way it was. IMO all they're doing is putting off new members and the regular amateurs even more by upping the entry fee & membership, as the low levels you don't even get prize money so they're at a big disadvantage surely? It would definately put me off competing BE which is such a shame as that's what I love doing, but its getting back to having that "elitist" image again at this rate as you need to be bloody rich to do it now!
 
Lolo said:
I think what is annoying a lot of people is the fact that at BE90/100 and even Novice, it's still amateurs. It's hobby level and so they give hobby level prizes. The problems come for the pros at the upper end of the sport really, paying the ridiculous entry fees and not getting it back for winning.
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Yet hobby level BS and BD manage to give cash- I think that comparison is not helpful to BE (yes obv BE costs more to run but more to enter etc), I think prizes in kind is a bit of a cop out and avoids people knowing exactly how much the prizes are worth.
 
ester said:
Yet hobby level BS and BD manage to give cash- I think that comparison is not helpful to BE (yes obv BE costs more to run but more to enter etc), I think prizes in kind is a bit of a cop out and avoids people knowing exactly how much the prizes are worth.
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I think the problem is, once you've got the field/ arenas and fences/ boards required, you're away on BD and BS. Setting up takes 15 minutes for dressage and an hour at most SJ, times take another 5, you need 2 or 3 judges and a course builder. And you're sorted. Even at unaffiliated events, I know our RC makes money on even their worst shows but at the ODE where the volume of competitors is considerably higher the profit is hugely lower, to the point of sitting in the 'is it worth it category'...

FWIW, I think it is still the pros who make the sport go. The people who routinely travel the country with up to 5 horses to compete, who enter the high cost end (because while a BE100 may have 200 runners at £80 each, the Int has 100 at £130 each. What they contribute is pretty much the same). The people who do the CCI/CIC events certainly pay their way more than the BE90/BE100 competitor...

This 3% rise means that right up to when you want to do an Advanced, the entry fee will rise by £5 at the very most. For the lower end this rise will be between £2-£3... Now I'm going to put it out there but the straw that breaks the camels back isn't going to be £2. By the time you've totted up your petrol and your training and your livery and your equipment and feed, those £2 are pretty insignificant. It might mean you're not out every other weekend but I'm going to say that until people properly vote with their feet nothing will change, and almost no one will because with BE you can be sure you're getting the best they can offer with the money they have. So everyone will flap and fuss and shout and be angry but nothing will change.

I don't know. I understand why pros are upset. But not people doing it for fun... If I were them I'd be making far more noise about better training opportunities for those over 18 and something for the amateur at the higher levels to aim for. Essentially trying to get BE to give them something more, rather than asking BE to ask for less.
 
I have done plenty of organising to get that side of things, but do think that (particularly when there are large fields - certainly larger than I have encountered BD) even low level cash prizes to say 6th would be more appreciated that what is currently received (and have the benefit of being equal across all sections).
 
I am not sure I should really be commenting as we have been trying to get out ansd bring a decent horse up through the BE80 - BE100 levels and so would clearly be considered 'only the amateur' end of the scale. I think there are some interesting things which have not been considered by 'the sport' though.
We have tried to ensure that even if I ( the owner ) take out membership, and leave the rider (daughter) on day tickets during the Easter hols and horse until after June what happens is that everytime we enter something she gets ballotted and so there is no entry. So what do we do? We end up trying, and are lucky enough to have lots of well-organised unaffs near us so I think that for next season we may just do these. I have never ever been ballotted from these and they are always cheerful and often not nearly so unaccomodating. But surely this approach reduces the numbers in the sport and if you don't look after the lower levels of the sport and open it up as much as you can how can you ensure its future? Surely riding clubs or something should get reduced membership? What about only needing one person to be a member to be 'linked' to each horse unless somebody wants to pay membership and get the extra bumf etc. How about repeating events but aiming them at local or regiuonal competitors only or something to double up on the fixed cost resources? Sometimes its just hard to see a way forward other than to either give up the eventing thing altogether or only go unaff and not everybody has access to decent, well organised, safe unaff venues? Somebody somewhere has to be more imaginative in their problem solving I think. I'm reserving judgement on what we do until the dust has settled really.
 
I think it's a general problem all round really. The grassroots riders are the ones who are there supporting the sport. Like a poster above me has said, there are huge amounts of competitors between BE80-Novice level, but these numbers disperse and lessen after this.

The cost of the sport is becoming slightly ridiculous, but inflation and all that. But surely there must become a point when the lowly amateur will be unable to afford to do what they love?


For me certainly, I cannot justify an outing at £120 a pop before even considering fuel costs etc. [but this is because my horse can either be a devil or an angel!]

Dressage and Showjumping, it is considerably less and sometimes you can even come home in profit!!

It is all about getting it right, so as not to price out those of us who support the higher echelons of the sport, but also so events can continue to run and so we don't loose anymore. I completley appreciate how much it costs to put on an event.

I think the case of prize money will come with bigger sponsors to the sport, but thats a whole different debate about how to attract them to a sport which is seen to my non-horsey friends as a 'posh tottys sport'.
 
brushingboots said:
For me certainly, I cannot justify an outing at £120 a pop before even considering fuel costs etc.
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Is that how much it will cost to do a BE event?? I was planning to BE next year but if that's how much it will cost me each time, I won't bother. Every venue around here that runs a BE event also runs at least one unaffil PC and/or RC event. They are perfectly well run, over the same course and cost a fraction of that! IIRC I paid £40-ish for the S. Shrops PC event at Berriewood Farm, and maybe £55-ish for the RC event at Solihull.

I can manage one ODE per month at those sorts of costs (bearing in mind I also need to fund my transport and training to do these events) but I wouldn't bother with BE if it's going to cost me more than twice as much. I'd do better sticking to the ODEs run over BE courses, and spending time doing more SJ and DR as well. Spoiled for choice around here as I can do Berriewood, Solihull, Llanymynech, I think Stafford do an UA, Eland Lodge, maybe Kelsall and Sapey too?

FWIW I'm one of those low level competitors being discussed - I might do a (BE)80 right at the start of the season then (BE)90.
 
BE 90 at Norton Disney is just under £71 entry fee, with a £15 start fee.

BE 100 is the same.

Novice is just under £82, plus start fee.

I can't find current prices for Int and above, and we haven't been out this year. :(
 
Intermediate is about £112 with generally a £20 start fee from what I've been looking up.

chestnut_cob, BE caters for lower end really well IMO. Sure, it costs, but that is a choice and one a lot of people make very willingly. You have a championship for each level up to BE100 for horses without points and generally you're well catered for considering I don't think that is the end that really BE needs as such. I think the idea that it is the lower end supporting the upper is a bit of a fallacy... I mean, on numbers alone, the pros competing 5+ registered horses every weekend are the ones who are. If you have half the number of Int. competitors as you do BE100, you're making about the same money on them. And those In horses are registered, their rider is a member, they'll have done a lot to get there and will be the regular customers.

I feel like I'm sitting in a weird place on this. I get that an expensive hobby with little monetary reward for success is annoying. But unless it is your profession, then it is a choice. And you have to make your choice- Al made hers, she can't afford BE right now so hasn't done any events. Which I think for her is particularly hard because she wants this to be her profession. And I do feel for people in a similar boat because it is hard...
 
I read this with interest as someone who would desperately like to event 'properly' but as yet am not brave enough! In fact I'm dipping my toes in the water with our first BE80 on Sunday and (going by past performances) will be happy to make it onto the XC course... let alone complete!

As with everything it's a choice....we all know that horses aren't cheap and that competing horses isn't cheap but yet we choose to do it. Either as an amateur to have 'fun' (though judging by the weather forecast for the weekend I may have to re-define fun) or as a professional to make a living. Whatever reason we have for being there, there is always the choice not to go.

For the professional their income come not from prize-money but from selling horses they have produced, livery costs for horses they are riding/competing, coaching/tuition fees etc etc. The competition is almost a tool for them to use to demonstrate their worth, to add value to the horse etc.

It would be naïve to think that anyone goes into competing (at any level) with an expectation that it will earn you money...it won't. Even on a good day BS when I win two classes (not sure that's actually ever happened!!) I won't be in profit when taking all costs into account. But what I do like is that you get your entry fee back as a minimum.

I'm tentatively stepping into the eventing world knowing that with all likelihood I won't come home with anything most times I go out....but for me it's worth it because I enjoy it. I prefer the way the events are run and am prepared to pay the extra to ensure consistent courses / judging / organisation etc. But equally I can see why people don't, especially if they are in an area with access to good unaff events.

If it was up to me then I would like to see money for the first x% and I think if you win you should at least get your entry fee and start fee back so that your day has contributed enough to buy you a bacon sandwich before you spend £50 on diesel trucking home to show off your rosette! But I don't know enough about events and their funding (having only ever fence judged / stewarded and not actually been behind the scenes 'proper') to know if this is feasible.

Perhaps what is needed is more transparency with regards to costs etc? That way competitiors could be reassured that no-one's pockets were being unduly lined?? We all know that the events are expensive to run, put perhaps something to put it in context? Even if only as, say a % of income raised?

I don't think there is a solution that will please everyone....but I would agree with the poster who said that this won't be the £2 that breaks the camels back and also with the poster who mentioned encouraging BE to put more back into training etc.....

Anyways...I'll stop rambling now!
 
Suzi, if anyone has any idea how much it costs to put on an event, they will no that noones pockets are being lined...

Just imagine how much it costs to hire an xc course builder to design and build a xc course, it doesn't just spring up out of no where. These are professionals and need to earn a living. How much do you think wood for a new xc jump costs?
 
Lolo said:
FWIW, I think it is still the pros who make the sport go. The people who routinely travel the country with up to 5 horses to compete, who enter the high cost end (because while a BE100 may have 200 runners at £80 each, the Int has 100 at £130 each. What they contribute is pretty much the same). The people who do the CCI/CIC events certainly pay their way more than the BE90/BE100 competitor...
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This 3% rise means that right up to when you want to do an Advanced, the entry fee will rise by £5 at the very most. For the lower end this rise will be between £2-£3... Now I'm going to put it out there but the straw that breaks the camels back isn't going to be £2. By the time you've totted up your petrol and your training and your livery and your equipment and feed, those £2 are pretty insignificant. It might mean you're not out every other weekend but I'm going to say that until people properly vote with their feet nothing will change, and almost no one will because with BE you can be sure you're getting the best they can offer with the money they have. So everyone will flap and fuss and shout and be angry but nothing will change.
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I think this sums up the issue I have with BE tbh.

We have no idea which end of the sport is more profitable for BE as it isn't transparent or easy to find.
I would disagree with the pros being the ones propping up the sport though; I would imagine it is 50/50 at most but again, without figures it's impossible to say with any confidence. And then you get into the 'who is a pro...' argument.

No, £2 will not be the straw that breaks the camel's financial back but it may be the straw that breaks the back of people wondering exactly where their entry fee goes and what they are getting back from BE for their cash.
I would love BE to do a breakdown in percentage to show where an entry fee is spent.

Regarding prizes in kind, I actually think it is a totally ridiculous farce!
If BD can do cash prizes when there can be as few as 5-6 in a class, I really do struggle to see how BE cannot provide cash prizes at Intro and PN when each section tends to have upwards of 30+ entries.

And actually, BE broke this camel's back a couple of years ago.
With escalating costs, BE refusing to really tackle the waitlist/refund robbery and not really understanding what I got for my money as a 20 something with a horse at PN, we won't be going BE until we are ready for Novice and I HAVE to go back to them to get the runs.
 
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