BE Entry/Start Fee Disparity

[noname]

OMG do not get me started! I was going to post about this last night. I was going to rant about BE90's! Glad its not just me!
I'm mortified that it will cost me over £70 to run and will only get £35 if I win. I don't expect to make a profit but common decency should apply...!

Why is prize money capped, best case senario is £66. If organisers / sponsors wish to offer more, why can't they?? I really don't think its much to give the winner back the entry fee. I'm talking one entry out of 30-40!

 

[AnShanDan]

i will go and kick my source for feeding me duff information...

to give you a rough guide to the P&L - if you run it tight and don't count your own hours, you'll break even, but like all accounts, the P&L for an event is a snapshot - really you have to look at the whole year, the loss of use of the track for anything else, the machinery you wouldn't have, even on a farm or equestrian property, the loss of income from say 50 acres... in fairness it doesn't stack up.

if you can attract 50k people or more and charge them all entry and charge hundreds of trade stands thousands of pounds, then fine but 95% of events are not in that league.

i would without doubt be better off letting the land do nothing or farming it!

I just think that people (eventing competitors) might be a lot more understanding of organisers if they could see the actual figures, rather than hearing that "no one makes money from running a BE event".

Income
entries
start fee
trade stands
spectators

Expenses
BE fees (no idea of this, does it vary according to certain factors?)
Course annual cost
Course and machinery depreciation
Rent of land to event
Doc/first aid
Volunteer expenses
Show jumps etc hire
Toilets
Dressage judges/course builders

I've no doubt missed loads Obviously the weather is a huge factor, causing so many extra costs up to and including cancellation.

Also, why don't more events run twice in the year? I know farming practice can get in the way of this, but do BE make it easy to get dates to suit? It seems one answer in Scotland where the events are getting thinner on the ground every year, if the course is there, then run a second event later in the year.

I am def. no expert, but my brain works best on figures coming from an economics/accountancy background.

 

[noname]

If your talking about an event P&L I don't think you can include the entire course maintenance /running costs for the year and set it off for one event if the facility holds 20-30 events over the year.

If your talking about the entire year then by all means include include general running costs but then include the other income for year aswell, hires, schooling and farming, other elements to the business. I don't think anyone would run a business if it wasn't profitable overall, its just not sustainable.
If your talking about an EVENT P&L then general running costs are sunk costs because they would need to be paid whether a particular event was run or not.

Don't forget figures are easily manipulated. Depreciation being the classic example.

I think everyone here knows about the running costs of an event, we are constantly being reminded by the ever increasing entry fees!!! And I for one am also soooo grateful for the volunteers, I do it myself regularly so I can give something back. I also make a point of thanking the organisers even if I've had a rubbish day! A lot of people do. We would not have sport if it was not for volunteers but I don't think this is the purpose of the thread.

 

[Freddie19]

As others have said there is no way you can pocket that amount of money when there is a clear audit trail, and although we don't insist on cash, we greatly prefer it as it is a real nuisance trying to chase a bounced cheque when you don't have any contact details for them & it isn't clear which horse(s) the start fee relates to!

Organiser of one event that I used to be involved with: insisted on the back of cheque went: name and address plus tel no..plus competitor no of horse start fee related to....very easily and quickly checked on day, and also to track down writer of cheque...

 

[Lynds]

feeling v glum reading this. twisted ankle so late withdrawal from isleham- and I believe you don't get a refund even with a gp cert. I think you do bd though?

 

[wessexyeoman]

If your talking about an event P&L I don't think you can include the entire course maintenance /running costs for the year and set it off for one event if the facility holds 20-30 events over the year.

If your talking about the entire year then by all means include include general running costs but then include the other income for year aswell, hires, schooling and farming, other elements to the business. I don't think anyone would run a business if it wasn't profitable overall, its just not sustainable.
If your talking about an EVENT P&L then general running costs are sunk costs because they would need to be paid whether a particular event was run or not.

Don't forget figures are easily manipulated. Depreciation being the classic example.

I think everyone here knows about the running costs of an event, we are constantly being reminded by the ever increasing entry fees!!! And I for one am also soooo grateful for the volunteers, I do it myself regularly so I can give something back. I also make a point of thanking the organisers even if I've had a rubbish day! A lot of people do. We would not have sport if it was not for volunteers but I don't think this is the purpose of the thread.

no, i mean it as i say it. i said earlier that i cannot just give a set of figures for one event and announce - tralaaa - look, i've made a profit... or a loss... it requires the income vs expenditure over the whole year...and opportunity cost.

be careful when assuming these events are run AS businesses... many, maybe even most are run LIKE a business...which is essential if you are to control costs but if i was after profit, running events is not what i would do.

i cannot, for instance, say that 200 entries at £100 a pop (lets keep the figures simple) + £20k income and my costs for setting up and running the day are £10k therefore £10k profit - because there are so many other factors involved. If i am a top notch lawyer, which i am not, and i earn £1000 a day - and many do earn that or a hell of a lot more, but lets just stick with £1000, then if it takes me 10 days to do the work for the course, thats 10 days i could have been earning £1000 a day so instantly i am at break even... or worse. That's an exaggeration, but i use it on one simple item to make a point.

Equally, because i want to preserve my track so that it is up to standard, I can't have hundreds of events and training days on it - it is used very very carefully and on very few days - and it is not used for a lot of other things that could earn money - opportunity cost again.

So my point is that most of us are in this together. Organisers, landowners, owners, riders - all of us - it costs all of us a lot of cash to participate in all the various ways - so it bothers me hugely when one or two imbeciles think someone here is cashing in.... and if they are - well good on them but it is simplistic for someone to suggest that venues are benefitting from the fee increase - our costs go up too!

Oh, and i pay rates on my course as well!...bloody council

 

[wessexyeoman]

Organiser of one event that I used to be involved with: insisted on the back of cheque went: name and address plus tel no..plus competitor no of horse start fee related to....very easily and quickly checked on day, and also to track down writer of cheque...

but a waste of time on top of all the other things an organiser has to do after an event. knowing who has bounced a cheque is not the same thing as being able to get the money from them.