BE penalties for jumping from stand-still

P

prudunce

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I did eridge 2day,beasty went to drift left at a xc jump(a good few strides out,oggling at judge standing too nr jump!) but we didnt go past jump,i linned up to the right and jumped from stand-still,no steps back BUT just looked at results and ive been given blinking 20pens obv down as a refusal at the jump. Do i appeal??is it worth it??and who wud i contact??event sec??. OR do u get 20 pens for jumping from standstill???no steps back and defo hadnt gone past jump,oh and i made sure it was not a circle!! i assumed we was clr??arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrfgggggggggggggggggggggggg
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I think that if the horse jumps from a standstill at anything over 30cm then it is counted as a refusal. I could be totally wrong just for some reason i have a feeling someone told me this.
 
Yes, anything over either 30cm or 50cm (can't remember which) from a standstill is a refusal - it's downright dangerous which is why they have added penalties in.
 
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Yes, anything over either 30cm or 50cm (can't remember which) from a standstill is a refusal - it's downright dangerous which is why they have added penalties in.

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why is jumping 30cm from standstill dangerous? my 2 yr old child could jump that from standstill.... ?!? am i missing something here?
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Because it drastically increases the chances of having a rotational fall. And even if the horse does climb over I'm sure they want to send the message that attempting to continue in such a fashion sets a bad precedent in the training of horse and rider, since you MIGHT get away with it when the jumps are small but if you're still trying it later it's likely to end in tears.

The thing with rules, especially regarding safety, is you can't say one rule for this and one rule for that because it's inconsistent and leads people to believe it's somehow "unfair" to expect people to follow the rules in the first place. There is also the necessity of training people (yes, I know people *think* they're going to remember when to make such and such a decision but that's not how people work under pressure) so saying "this is the rule, always do it that way" ideally trains people in safe practice BEFORE it becomes essential for them to do it for real. So telling people it's never okay to jump from a standstill makes it very clear and if it works out that time they need to recognise they got away with something. Rules are tricky, no matter what ones they set there are going to be people unhappy. I guess the feeling now is better people be unhappy but still in one piece.
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Because when a horse is moving too slowly to a fence or tries to jump from a standstill this is when rotational falls happen. Thats why the 20 pens cos it is considered dangerous for the horse to jump like that.
 
When we were fence judging at Little Downham it was one thing that was made very clear, any halt in forward momentum in front of the fence was 20 pens. The 30cms rule is there to allow for small logs on the top of drops or steps into water.
 
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When we were fence judging at Little Downham it was one thing that was made very clear, any halt in forward momentum in front of the fence was 20 pens. The 30cms rule is there to allow for small logs on the top of drops or steps into water.

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makes more sense now... thank you!
 
Although it does depend on who does the briefing and what level you are judging at about how lenient you can be
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But jumping from a standstill at ANY level is a complete no-no if the fence is more than 20 cms
 
I was i no danger,he's jumped plenty from tror/hesitant,split second standstill(small ones obv),rather this than let them run out !!! Most horses can walk & pop over 2 -3' without having to make any effort! Right,i know the rules 4 next time,obv turning away is the safer option after a stop BUT he was still going 4ward,it wasnt stop dead,kick jump,more like slow motion at the last split second!!!!!!! he didnt touch the jump!Thats why im surprised about the pens!!! Thanks 4 your replies!!!!
 
See I disagree with you as IMO you are training him to 'jump. no matter what', which is fine when they are small enough that he can get his legs out of the way, but what about at Novice or Intermediate where with the best will in the world he can't? You've trained him to go whatever, so he comes in on a duff stride, goes to stop, remembers the training of 'we always jump', leaves a leg and lands on top of you. Does not bear thinking about. I would much rather have a horse who has the self preservation to either stop and not jump or to skip out and take home that 20 than to potentially not go home at all.

Not all run outs are bad, and certainly not when the alternative is potentially lethal. Generally run-out just show up either flaws in training like straightness, listening to rider etc or rider error such as coming in too fast or on a bad angle in my experience.
 
Hi P

Jumping a fixed fence from a standstill is considered dangerous as if horsey doesn't make it over he's likely to fall ... and on top of you.

Standstill leap over a SJ isn't so dangerous as it'll all fall down and horsey still on his feet (hopefully!)

Tis very difficult as a XC fence judge to consider faults as it's often so split-second.
 
If you jumped from a standstill then your horse has pbviously come to a grinding halt in front of the fence. I probably would've given you 20pens if I had been fence judging too. As for your comment about fence judge standing too close to fence - sounds like you're looking for someone to blame. When you compete you are faced with all sorts of things and your horse (and you) need to get used to it.
 
Prudence - if the jump that you are talking about was the house before the step up to skinny then I was the fence judge. In my opinion the horse did run to the left and you stopped the horse (just). The horse did come to a stop which is enough for me to give you the 20 pens. You then turned the horse to face the jump where you had about 1 stride to the fence, I would have to say that fortunately you have a very genuine horse because that was bordering on dangerous riding.
I don't feel that we were positioned too close to the jump. As a rider myself I am always aware of what a horse might spook at. In fact I once had an argument with the health and safety officer who wanted to put a very bright sign close to the path the horses would take.
 
also P if your not happy with score and you see it on day, you can very easily ask TA or secretary Why you have been given 20pen. As then you'll get a good resaon why fence judge gave you mark and then it's up to TA to remove or not

As when I fence judging you are told jumping from standstill a totally NO, NO......... as if you present and drift out you'll get 20pen, as that's defo refusal.

Sorry but as fence judges you are told to give 20pens and write a reason if odd one, then if rider doesn't like they can ask for reason why..... As in FJ talks the TA says it's always easier to take away 20pen than add 20pen!!

So you should have challenged on day....
 
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