BE poll on Downgrading

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I voted disagree. I believe this rule change will allow people to spend a lot of money to buy an experienced horse that has competed at the higher levels and compete on an even playing field with true amateur one (reasonably priced and average) horse owners. As one of those myself I already find the odds are stacked against me most of the time (my own ability probably one of those factors
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) and this will make the dream of a BE placing and rosette even more unrealistic. When there are open sections available I don't understand the need for this
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Absolutely agree with above! (unless of course i win the lottery then i shall be buying all the decent eventers from the last olympics and downgrading them
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)
 
I voted against for two reasons:

1) because i believe it will encourage well off people to go and buy very expensive horses
2) because it will be the end of open classes - this will affect people e.g. at novice with a few points wanting to do a pn at the start of the year.
 
I voted for the new rule.

I don't think I could ride tamorrilo let alone win on him!

I could not ride a test on liebling and win even an elementary.

For an eventer to downgrade he has to have won no points for several seasons, and they can only downgrade once.
If you put an amature on a proffesional horse you do not get the same results, the horse only performs if you press the right buttons.

If I win the lottery then I may well buy a decent eventer, however what is the glory of pothunting! I would want to progress up the scale.

The safest way to learn to event is on a schoolmaster, where you lack experiance the horse helps you out. WE should be encouragingg this. When you have an experiance jockey on a young horse the rider helps the horse out, both groups learn and progress.

Still seems a pretty level playing field to me.
 
I agree, as above llannnerch said.
Some people will always have more money than others, people will always complain that so and so shouldn't have been in the competition, but that's what makes it a competition!
 
Whilst I agree that an amateur/inexperienced rider is unlikely to achieve the same level of excellence as the professionals on a given horse, the fact remains that the more experienced horses - irrespective of who is riding them - will have a more established way of going than a youngster... so it will not be a level playing field.

Equally i agree that an inexperienced jockey and an experienced horse is a 'good' way to learn so why not encourage more events to put on 'open' sections to cater for this group of people.

The argument seems to be about having an opportunity to compete, having 'open' sections will provide this opportunity
 
You have a very valid point there vrin.

The trouble is at the moment certainly for intro, open classes are few and far between.

And you could argue on the same principle that the proffesional riders should also be restricted to these open classes.
 
What is the point of Open classes if not to give a run to horses that are over graded or riders that are in experienced?

I voted no.
 
If it means we loose open classes then I am against it. If a rider wants a schoolmaster then they can buy one and ride in open sections. If I want my horse to get a bit of confidence at the beginning of the season ,I can put him in a prenovice open.
If we loose open then what is going to happen to the horse for 3 seasons before he can be downgraded. Will it just be the unsound horses that have time off then are downgraded and compete on drugs until they breakdown again. What are the chances of being drug tested , minimal
Lets just have more open sections and if an eligible horse comes in the first 4 then let it go through to regionals
 
I voted yes. I have an older advanced horse and Im not rich and wanting to pot hunt. I bought him for experience and confidence. He is also rubbish at dressage. My sister does intros on him and there are very few of them. It allows her to now compete rather than go HC. She is never going to win, but if its a tough XC with a hard time then she has the potential to get placed which is nice. An advanced horse doesnt necessary mean an easy ride and I cant see why peopole are getting so worked up over this. It happens in dressage. At the end of the day, the horse still has to be ridden. If the horse hasnt won points for 3 years it can only either be competing at a low level or is rubbish at one of the phases. Either way, its not going to suddenly starting setting the world on fire. I think people are getting all worked up over nothing. If the rich suddenly wanted to buy an advanced horse to win, they could be doing that already in open classes.
 
I do not see what was wrong with the old system. My friend has a schoolmaster with 75 points he is very competitive at OPN and would have won no points for 3 seasons so why should they suddenly be allowed to go into normal PN classes?
 
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I voted yes. I have an older advanced horse. I bought him for experience and confidence. He is also rubbish at dressage.

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It can't be that rubbish at dressage to be a advance horse.

Why is it the only people saying whats wrong with it, yeah great !!!!! and why are people geting all wound up by it, are the ones with the horses which should not be down graded and should be running in opens.
 
Lets not confuse what BE is now doing with what happens at BD. When a horse is downgraded BD it only has 15 points at the lower level and the combination MUST compete in the open section. How far a horse can be downgraded BD depends on the grade of the rider.
You can not take an advanced horse BD, wipe its points completely and start again at prelim. Much more control than the crazy idea from BE.

I voted no just incase it wasn't clear.
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I agree with all that has been said about the change being wrong, open classes are fine for over qualified horses , the lack of open intro is irrelevant because a horse which has won points at any time should not go back to Intro because it is so small. If the rider needs to go so small they should go schooling or unaffiliated ( or compete H/C). In my view it is another example of eventing being run to benefit the wealthy.
 
You've gotta wonder - are the affiliated bodies in some kind of secret competition at the moment to see who can p1ss off the greatest proportion of the membership?!

At least BD listened when people said rules were stupid and amended them to be more workable. BSJA appear to have lost the plot with their show categories which seem to be designed to stop amateurs who'd like a warm up class before doing a 1.20 from competing above 1.10, and BE have become irrational and are changing things left right and centre whilst wittering on about how riders are represented and consulted, which appears to be the most overt display of denial I have ever witnessed! Perhaps they think if they say it enough times it will magically become true and we will all believe it?
 
I'm sorry if this sounds stroppy because I actually don't agree with downgrading - open classes are fine. BUT I am absolutely furious that someone has suggested that horses with points shouldn't be allowed to compete at Intro because its too small! My horse has 39 points and is 15 years old. I have been competing him at Novice this year but he lost interest and we had a couple of falls. I gave him time off and then did two open intros which he loved and really enjoyed. Should I be denied the right to compete at BE because my horse is getting older? He is a perfect schoolmaster and deserves a chance to continue to compete at a lower level as he gets older. I would like to take him back to PN but only if he's happy. Surely you are pushing people and horses to compete out of their comfort zone? I do go schooling and I do compete unaffiliated but I have paid my Grade 2 registration for him and have a right to compete at the level he is happiest at. As for being run to benefit the wealthy, I am most certainly not and have every right to compete, paying the same fees as other people. If there were no Open intros, I would run HC but as there are, I will compete!

By your argument, you appear to be suggesting there is no place for Intro or Training classes, because people should go schooling or unaffiliated if they need to jump 'so small'?

I don't agree with downgrading, I am perfectly content to compete in Open classes or HC but don't push the amateur riders, competing for pleasure on older horses, out. (sorry, bit of a rant - am already stressed about the rise in fees, to have it suggested that I shouldn't bother because my horse has points upset me further!)!

There is no need for downgrading!!!
 
Disagree with this rule. I don't think me and my horse have won points in the last 3 seasons, so we could downgrade, which would be really unfair. We swiftly got points at Novice and for the last 3 or so seasons I have competed in Open classes as I've been a bit chicken about moving to Intermediate, and we regularly get placed - but win no points. Open classes are generally well contested as they are obviously more experienced horses, so if I moved back down to compete in Novice classes, I'd definately be pot hunting. This is the whole point of Open classes...
 
I'm so chuffed that so many people have taken the time to vote and comment on the poll I started.

Now, please, please, please could you all voice the same opinions on the BE forum as it is the only way they will listen to us. It has to be on the "Ask BE part" as they say they don't comment on stuff in the general discussion forum

So if you really care about this, please start a new thread for BE, it only takes 1 min to do so. If we bombard them with requests to reconsider they CAN't ignore us.

Thanks
 
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