BE poll on Downgrading

Hacking

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It can't be that rubbish at dressage to be a advance horse.




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Trust me, he is awful -As he has got older he gets more and more wound up- he can do all the movements at home but get him to a comp and he just blows up.
 
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I agree with all that has been said about the change being wrong, open classes are fine for over qualified horses , the lack of open intro is irrelevant because a horse which has won points at any time should not go back to Intro because it is so small. If the rider needs to go so small they should go schooling or unaffiliated ( or compete H/C). In my view it is another example of eventing being run to benefit the wealthy.

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Talk about being shallow minded! So in your eyes I am wealthy because I have an older advanced horse. He didnt cost the earth and if my sister (who also rides him) wants to be competetive at Intro, why shouldnt she! It costs treble the amount to even register him. Why should she go HC just because there is no open intro?

Intros are not too small. He is 17 and Im not going to keep running him at Advanced level. He is starting to show his age but enjoys his day out. To keep pushing him would be unfair. Are you suggesting he is simply retired??
 
I voted yes, we have an older horse with 5 points gained about four years ago - so not a world beater, but a lovely schoolmaster who's dressage is not competitve enough for opn , where often the 10th place finishing score is around 32, we bought him for his jumping experience , this new rule will give them a chance when they go double clear and maybe a rosette for all the time and effort they put in, any horses who are that good / expensive etc.. will almost certainly have won points in last two seasons so wont be eligible anyway.
 
I disagreed. we dont need this rule, there are open classes for over qualified horses that people have been more than happy to use. I would like to think that I could get on a horse thats been Intermediate/advanced and do well at intro/PN and I am not the greatest of riders! So I feel the rule will be abused by those that can afford a nice advanced horse to be downgraded with lessons etc they will be very competitive before long. Of course I was not against people doing this previously as they used the open sections and I think this worked well. People wanting schoolmasters bought them knowing they would compete in open sections.

Intro and PN are competitive enough without making it even more competitve for the one horse owner/rider!
 
will be voting to disagree with it as it stands but have sympathy for you faj1 and think that if BE modified the new rule to allow for limited downgrading - 10pts? 20pts?? - then there would be few arguments.

Agree that all BE members should make their feelings felt on that forum (though they'll probably remove contraversial posts - something they seem to do quite a lot!!)
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i think downgrading could be a good idea.... but put a limit on the number of points that an be downgraded, but no lower than novice.
if that makes sense.
basically so the likes of Tamarillo/Primmores Pride can not be down graded to PN/INTRO and only to NOVICE.
would make it slightly more fair.
 
I disagree, now were going to get lots of good novice-advanced horses competing at pn/intro, and they still could be good at higher levels, remember points aren't available in open classes so a horse could be winning in OI for the past 3 years but gaining no more points and could now be bought to go to the grass roots festival at badminton
 
I disagree with the rule too and as it is I am seriously wondering whether to re register next year or just make use of Aston le Walls 3 unaffiliated events and 4 x BE tickets instead.....this rule is just fuelling my disappointment with BE?

Not sure if this has been mentioned.....but I haven't seen anything re downgrading PN horses (if they win 3 x PN they have to compete in OPN). This doesn't apply to me but would be interested to hear what BE are proposing to do in this circumstance!!???
 
whilst i dont compete or indeed have much to do with BE i complete disagree with downgrading full stop!

is that not the whole idea of open classes so the more advanced horses with say ametur riders or indeed more experienced older horses who arent really up for the HUUUGe tracks anymore or for any reason - personally i think open classes suffice just like they do in the bsja - if it aint broke dont fix it
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I disagree, now were going to get lots of good novice-advanced horses competing at pn/intro, and they still could be good at higher levels, remember points aren't available in open classes so a horse could be winning in OI for the past 3 years but gaining no more points and could now be bought to go to the grass roots festival at badminton

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That is a very interesting point and I'm sure one BE hasn't thought of!
 
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I disagree, now were going to get lots of good novice-advanced horses competing at pn/intro, and they still could be good at higher levels, remember points aren't available in open classes so a horse could be winning in OI for the past 3 years but gaining no more points and could now be bought to go to the grass roots festival at badminton

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That is a very interesting point and I'm sure one BE hasn't thought of!

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You do get points at OI. You dont in ON though so a horse could be doing well in those and still downgrade
 
Actually TBF you do get points for places at OI on an Advanced horse, but not at ON. So you couldn't have been gaining places at OI but you could at ON, so the point still applies and is a good one (sorry for being pedantic
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Oops - Boss was quicker to get hers in than me
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So you want your 17yr old to be able to compete at a lower level even though hes been there and got the T shirt,what about my 5 yr old does it not deserve the chance to be competetive up through the grades.There are what are called open classes for horses like yours or dont you like competing against horses with more points.
As correctly pointed out by somebody elsewhere if this rule means the end of open classes which surely it will, what do people with higher graded horses who want an easier run for some reason do.
 
ha sorry my bad, but you get my point, also people who are saying its good because opn is v competitive, everyone now doing opn will move to pn making them jus as competitive, so they're not really gaining any advantage from it, if you catch my drift
 
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So you want your 17yr old to be able to compete at a lower level even though hes been there and got the T shirt,what about my 5 yr old does it not deserve the chance to be competetive up through the grades.There are what are called open classes for horses like yours or dont you like competing against horses with more points.
As correctly pointed out by somebody elsewhere if this rule means the end of open classes which surely it will, what do people with higher graded horses who want an easier run for some reason do.

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I will make sure my 5yo is a competitive as a 17yo which is either feeling its age or with eventing newbie rider. If you up the compitition you up the challenge, nothing wrong with that. Just ensures to be competitive you have to put the preperation in, nothing wrong with that either.

If there were more open intro, classes then I would think this new rule would be unneceassary, and I do agree with the point that it may mean the end to open classes which I too would be dead against.

All those who pay their money deserve to be able to compete comptitively at a level they are comfortable with.

Non affiliated compiitions are an alternative to open intro, or downgrading, however as those of you will know who compete unaffiliated the standard of compitition varies greatly and until you get to the compitition is often a compelte unknown. At least an affiliated event garentees a certain standard, and safty which again is paramount for beginners.
 
I sure as hell won't be happy competing against some ex-advanced horse, otherwise I'd be doing open intros now for the sheer hell of it.

I've finally found a horse who is capable of the odd rosette at intro, but although she's 7 she's very green and gets a bit stage-struck at big events, thus making her somewhat unpredictable at times.

I'd much rather be on an established schoolmaster who has been there, done that, bought the t shirt and is not going to freak out halfway through a dressage test because today the tannoy spooked him.

I've loved being in with half a chance of a rosette, and know if I don't we've done our best as a partnership on the day against people in the same boat as me.

BSJA don't do this, they hold open 90, 100cm classes etc for those on ex grade As etc so you know if you enter that class what you could potentially be up against, you choose to enter that class, and do the BN, and disco if not.

Why on earth should BE not do the same? What's the point of having points otherwise?

And I don't know about the rest of people on here but most events I've done this year have had Ointro and OPN classes. This rule is going to mean even more balloting too.
 
I disagree with the new rule. Unless I'm missing something I just don't see the problem with using open classes for this sort of horse/rider combination.
 
I disagree. I think the open classes work well and with the new rules the open classes will be destroyed even thoguh there is still going to be a need for them. The only thing missing for those competing a schoolmaster in open classes is a championship to aim for so why not have an open setion for the grassroots finals? There'd soon be enough demand for open intro that there would be enough classes put on - the organisers in general will run what they can be certain of filling. At the moment the open intro is often a parital seciton
 
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So you want your 17yr old to be able to compete at a lower level even though hes been there and got the T shirt,what about my 5 yr old does it not deserve the chance to be competetive up through the grades.

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er. not sure what that has to do with anything. Your five year old would probably beat my horse! you really should not be quite so aggresive, just because I dont agree with you!
 
Pots and Kettles!
Look at your earlier post and consider if you were being aggressive because my opinion is different to yours.
Do you want to compete because your old horse enjoys the day out or because you want a rosette?, if it is not about the rosette you won't mind going HC, and nor will your sister!
I shall take cover whilst awaiting your response, but do remember this is only my opinion!
 
WOOOPS!
I am sorry if you feel I was being agressive about this, you are obviously very sensitive about losing the argument as apparent from the vote.
Perhaps a compromise maybe that horses can compete at what ever level they like but be handicapped by their points being added to their score, but i doubt this would interest you.
The question of who beats who is irrelevant at the end of the day you are running an experienced horse with in excess of 60 points in classes that are for the grass roots starting out.If your sister needs to compete at intro enter an open intro (I know there needs to be more)
Personally I am not interested in winning rossettes at 80 &90(to keep on good side of gestapo)as it is a stepping stone to hopefully better things.However what will happen is more entries at 80&90depriving my young inexperienced horse of a run that it needs for experience.
I realise that a lot of people enjoy competing at intro and prenovice on horses that they have produced themselves and should be proud of it I would not wish to deprive them of their rossette. I think you may get upset if they beat your horse and you dont have anything to take home.
 
Sorry- but you really have no idea of why I compete do you!! please dont make assumptions about me. I dont really care about losing an arguement- there is no arguement for me to lose as the rule is there! I have just put my views across, which I am entitled to do. If you knew my horse you would know that he is generally last after dressage and getting a rosette doesnt come into it. However on the odd day he does ok if he gets a rosette thats great too. I pay just as much as you to enter and register(actually more) so why am I not entitled to compete. If you saw his record you would see just how far off your comments are. Trust me when I say I will be depriving no one of a rosette!
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How do you know your horse will be deprived of a run?..the season hasnt started yet.
 
oh dear we are touchy !
At no time have I said your horse cannot compete .It should however be in the right section which is open .It cant be that rubbish or it wouldnt have 60+ points or perhaps it has other reasons for doing badly.
 
Not at all touchy.

If there were more open intro sections it would be fine. There arent so Im happy that downgrading is allowed. He does have 63 points yes, however as he has got older his dressage has got worse as he now just blows up in this phase. So yes, he really is that rubbish -if we get under 50 we are pleased.
 
If it is true that you rarely get below 50 in dressage you won't get placed anyway so you might as well continue to go HC. Noone is saying you can't take part, simply that a horse as experienced as yours should not prevent genuine novices winning prizes they deserve.
I do wonder, given the strength of feeling against this rule, if clapping at prize givings will be replaced with booing for riders of downgraded horses!
I was at an unaffiliated sj comp recently when an almost ja pony was jumped in the 80cm class, the rider turned too tight and missed the last fence and some spectators cheered. Not good sportsmanship I know but she should not have been competing on that pony against genuine pony club ponies.
 
He would have been placed once- it was a very hard time on the XC to get and he was one of only 2 to get inside the time. My sister is a rider who is should genuinely compete at Intro - She has worked very hard to overcome her fears and to compete at an affiliated competition is a big deal for her. She was competing HC that day and it would just have been nice for her to have been placed. She is not an advanced rider and competed HC 90% of the time - If there is an Open Intro then she goes in that.
 
I agree with you.Most of the focus seems to have been on hoses at 80 & 90 but remeber if these downgraded horses compete at novice they are potentially taking away points and prize money from the genuine competitors.Just out of interest and i dont think its likely but PRIMMORES PRIDE would be eligible to downgrade under this rule now that would give everybody a chance.
 
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