fingers_crossed
Well-Known Member
If they did try to make the venues exclusively affiliated AND continued to increase fees, I think I would probably not rejoin. I think such an idea is so morally wrong I don't know where to start!
"BE set to act as unaffiliated events poach members"
- Thread starter alwaysbroke
- Start date
jumptoit
Well-Known Member
I am sorry but I disagree with the above points if I am going to pay a membership fee and pay more than £30 to compete on the day I expect a good course designer, dressed fences, good ground and change from year to year.
I may well be alone on this but I don't think this is where BE needs to cut back as this is the difference between BE and unaffiliated tbh. The issue is the BE infrastructure, website, staff etc.
I may well be alone on this but I don't think this is where BE needs to cut back as this is the difference between BE and unaffiliated tbh. The issue is the BE infrastructure, website, staff etc.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
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BE could go the way that BS has and ban the members from competing as an owner or rider or officiating at any unaffliated show. (I know it is for prize money over £10)
Don't forget that judges and course builders are also BS members
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yup but rarely a problem round here at least as the most I have ever won unaff SJ is a £5 feed voucher. unaff hunter trials are I think the only unaff event that offer money prizes in this area.
BE could go the way that BS has and ban the members from competing as an owner or rider or officiating at any unaffliated show. (I know it is for prize money over £10)
Don't forget that judges and course builders are also BS members
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yup but rarely a problem round here at least as the most I have ever won unaff SJ is a £5 feed voucher. unaff hunter trials are I think the only unaff event that offer money prizes in this area.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
More than £30? It's more than SEVENTY to compete BE!
Paying a big name designer doesn't get you any better a course at 90cm and 1m than any number of local people could design, certainly is this area, anyway.
I'm puzzled about people wanting the aerovator. Aside from the issue of overnight rain draining away (which doesn't usually come into play because they only spike hard ground because there's no rain!) I can't say that I can tell the slightest difference between the hardness of ground with a 6 inch deep spike hole every foot or so in it, and ground with no holes. If any horse of mine had been unable to run on hard ground over a 1m course, it would not be able to run on aerovated ground either. I mentioned this to a British Team member when I was at a meeting with her last year and she thought the same. I suspect the sight of the holes makes the rider feel better more than it makes the slightest difference to the horse.
But if that's not the way members would choose to save money on entry fees, it certainly looks as though some other ways need to be found if BE are to keep their revenues up. I didn't event in 2009 and I have no plans to affiliate in 2010 unless they can make it cheaper at BE 90 and BE100. Several of my friends gave up in 2009 too. I don't mind paying big fees for a course I can't jump anywhere else, Novice height, but not the lower heights, it's just not worth over £100 by the time I've paid the entry fee, start fee and the diesel to get there.
Paying a big name designer doesn't get you any better a course at 90cm and 1m than any number of local people could design, certainly is this area, anyway.
I'm puzzled about people wanting the aerovator. Aside from the issue of overnight rain draining away (which doesn't usually come into play because they only spike hard ground because there's no rain!) I can't say that I can tell the slightest difference between the hardness of ground with a 6 inch deep spike hole every foot or so in it, and ground with no holes. If any horse of mine had been unable to run on hard ground over a 1m course, it would not be able to run on aerovated ground either. I mentioned this to a British Team member when I was at a meeting with her last year and she thought the same. I suspect the sight of the holes makes the rider feel better more than it makes the slightest difference to the horse.
But if that's not the way members would choose to save money on entry fees, it certainly looks as though some other ways need to be found if BE are to keep their revenues up. I didn't event in 2009 and I have no plans to affiliate in 2010 unless they can make it cheaper at BE 90 and BE100. Several of my friends gave up in 2009 too. I don't mind paying big fees for a course I can't jump anywhere else, Novice height, but not the lower heights, it's just not worth over £100 by the time I've paid the entry fee, start fee and the diesel to get there.
dieseldog
Well-Known Member
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BE could go the way that BS has and ban the members from competing as an owner or rider or officiating at any unaffliated show. (I know it is for prize money over £10)
Don't forget that judges and course builders are also BS members
[/ QUOTE ]
yup but rarely a problem round here at least as the most I have ever won unaff SJ is a £5 feed voucher. unaff hunter trials are I think the only unaff event that offer money prizes in this area.
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West Wilts give prize money in unaff jumping - but a bit far for you. When I was a kid, all unaffliated gave prize money. One time at Bleadon Hill we were getting £10 a win in the gymkhana games. Mendip Hunt show also used to give bags of horse feed for first place.
I remember back in the 90s a show centre in Yorkshire told the BSJA to sod off and started running £50 first prize classes - they could make more money doing that than BSJA.
I think that BE needs to remember that it exists because of the events and needs the events to continue, the events don't need BE.
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BE could go the way that BS has and ban the members from competing as an owner or rider or officiating at any unaffliated show. (I know it is for prize money over £10)
Don't forget that judges and course builders are also BS members
[/ QUOTE ]
yup but rarely a problem round here at least as the most I have ever won unaff SJ is a £5 feed voucher. unaff hunter trials are I think the only unaff event that offer money prizes in this area.
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West Wilts give prize money in unaff jumping - but a bit far for you. When I was a kid, all unaffliated gave prize money. One time at Bleadon Hill we were getting £10 a win in the gymkhana games. Mendip Hunt show also used to give bags of horse feed for first place.
I remember back in the 90s a show centre in Yorkshire told the BSJA to sod off and started running £50 first prize classes - they could make more money doing that than BSJA.
I think that BE needs to remember that it exists because of the events and needs the events to continue, the events don't need BE.
jumptoit
Well-Known Member
I am aware it is over £70 to compete BE as I have done for the past 2 seasons and intend to this year too but my 1 unaffiliated event round a BE course is £25 and has none of the 4 points stated. At the end of the day I don't want to pay more than £25 to compete at an event lacking things that we take for granted at affiliated level eg. big warm up areas, big SJ arenas, running on time, wooden SJs, whiteboard, plenty of stewards, official running order the list goes on . . . . .
Ime the diesel is the same and when I take more than one horse having an arena running an 1hr 30 mins behind time and my other running on time without being told resulting in no warm up for one horse isn't ideal. I also don't see the point in trying to warm up in a tiny strip of rutted sloping ground with just the 1 warm up fence.
I agree that BE needs to bring the costs down of their BE90/100 classes but imo not by lowering the standard of what they provide at events.
Ime the diesel is the same and when I take more than one horse having an arena running an 1hr 30 mins behind time and my other running on time without being told resulting in no warm up for one horse isn't ideal. I also don't see the point in trying to warm up in a tiny strip of rutted sloping ground with just the 1 warm up fence.
I agree that BE needs to bring the costs down of their BE90/100 classes but imo not by lowering the standard of what they provide at events.
SpruceRI
Well-Known Member
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I'm puzzled about people wanting the aerovator. Aside from the issue of overnight rain draining away (which doesn't usually come into play because they only spike hard ground because there's no rain!) I can't say that I can tell the slightest difference between the hardness of ground with a 6 inch deep spike hole every foot or so in it, and ground with no holes. If any horse of mine had been unable to run on hard ground over a 1m course, it would not be able to run on aerovated ground either. I mentioned this to a British Team member when I was at a meeting with her last year and she thought the same. I suspect the sight of the holes makes the rider feel better more than it makes the slightest difference to the horse.
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But the aerovator doesn't just spike the ground, it shakes it too, to break it up a bit under the surface.
My Welsh D does not like hard ground. She 'potters' on it. Doesn't take a big stride but shortens, gets under the jumps, climbs over sometimes.
I do try to avoid competing in the summer, but you never know when you enter 2 months before what the ground is going to be like
At Eridge Horse Trials, the ground is often hard. One year they had spiked the XC, dressage and SJ rings but not the warm ups.
The difference in my cobs' way of going was remarkable - pottered in the warm up, fine in the rings. Obv hundreds of horses wound compound the warm up rings as the weekend went on, but generally we were on early before the ground had been beaten to death
I'm puzzled about people wanting the aerovator. Aside from the issue of overnight rain draining away (which doesn't usually come into play because they only spike hard ground because there's no rain!) I can't say that I can tell the slightest difference between the hardness of ground with a 6 inch deep spike hole every foot or so in it, and ground with no holes. If any horse of mine had been unable to run on hard ground over a 1m course, it would not be able to run on aerovated ground either. I mentioned this to a British Team member when I was at a meeting with her last year and she thought the same. I suspect the sight of the holes makes the rider feel better more than it makes the slightest difference to the horse.
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But the aerovator doesn't just spike the ground, it shakes it too, to break it up a bit under the surface.
My Welsh D does not like hard ground. She 'potters' on it. Doesn't take a big stride but shortens, gets under the jumps, climbs over sometimes.
I do try to avoid competing in the summer, but you never know when you enter 2 months before what the ground is going to be like
At Eridge Horse Trials, the ground is often hard. One year they had spiked the XC, dressage and SJ rings but not the warm ups.
The difference in my cobs' way of going was remarkable - pottered in the warm up, fine in the rings. Obv hundreds of horses wound compound the warm up rings as the weekend went on, but generally we were on early before the ground had been beaten to death
SpruceRI
Well-Known Member
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I'll bet that BS rule breaches Human Rights legislation. If BS wasn't a monopoly, maybe not, but I'd eat my hat if that would stand up in court.
Whatever, it is totally outrageous!
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I've often thought that the BSJA must be breaking the monopolies Commission law or something in banning their members from competing in non Aff comps and winning more than £10 prize money, or in Show Centres being able offer higher prize money in their Unaff comps.
In the industry I work in, you can't even even sneeze (I'd like to use another bodily function to describe this really
) before the Regulator comes down on you like a ton of bricks.
We would never get away with what the BSJA does
I'll bet that BS rule breaches Human Rights legislation. If BS wasn't a monopoly, maybe not, but I'd eat my hat if that would stand up in court.
Whatever, it is totally outrageous!
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I've often thought that the BSJA must be breaking the monopolies Commission law or something in banning their members from competing in non Aff comps and winning more than £10 prize money, or in Show Centres being able offer higher prize money in their Unaff comps.
In the industry I work in, you can't even even sneeze (I'd like to use another bodily function to describe this really
We would never get away with what the BSJA does
SpruceRI
Well-Known Member
If BE would like to 'win me back' this year, they're going to have to seriously reduce their prices.
Even the membership for one horse and rider, how can they justify £200?
I get 4 or 5 magazines a month, a car pass (which I gather they're doing away with) and a website to pay my entries on.... how can they justify £200?
That'll pay for 4 or 5 Unaff Horse Trials, half my season!
I've very much enjoyed competing in BE but have had to call a halt to it because I simply can't afford it.
And the the start fee to improve the course? Don't notice many changes at my level year on year. They always insist it's in cash, is that the tax proof cash in hand bonus?
I don't know how you guys afford Novice and above, the entry fees are ludicrous.
Even the membership for one horse and rider, how can they justify £200?
I get 4 or 5 magazines a month, a car pass (which I gather they're doing away with) and a website to pay my entries on.... how can they justify £200?
That'll pay for 4 or 5 Unaff Horse Trials, half my season!
I've very much enjoyed competing in BE but have had to call a halt to it because I simply can't afford it.
And the the start fee to improve the course? Don't notice many changes at my level year on year. They always insist it's in cash, is that the tax proof cash in hand bonus?
I don't know how you guys afford Novice and above, the entry fees are ludicrous.
diggerbez
Well-Known Member
i suspect that the majority of centres would run unfil as opposed to afil if made to choose- they can run more and earn more money from unafil
simmilarly, if BE tried to stop me competing unafil then i wouldn't be a member....simples! i'm not being told what to do!
simmilarly, if BE tried to stop me competing unafil then i wouldn't be a member....simples! i'm not being told what to do!
alwaysbroke
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
If BE would like to 'win me back' this year, they're going to have to seriously reduce their prices.
Even the membership for one horse and rider, how can they justify £200?
I get 4 or 5 magazines a month, a car pass (which I gather they're doing away with) and a website to pay my entries on.... how can they justify £200?
That'll pay for 4 or 5 Unaff Horse Trials, half my season!
I've very much enjoyed competing in BE but have had to call a halt to it because I simply can't afford it.
I don't know how you guys afford Novice and above, the entry fees are ludicrous.
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Totally agree.
Have had too much time on my hands for the last week and spent a few hours working out the BE calander for the OH, ut in the end we decided that the memebership fee would pay for so many other things it wasnt worth joining. There are too many variables, his one horse didnt do much last year, so would have to "start" again, the younger one is an unknown quanity, if he doesnt like eventing its an expensive way to find out.
You run too much of a risk in losing your entry fee if you have to withdraw (events now seem to be offering so many different ideas on what you maybe able to get refunded), also if the ground isnt right and you dont run the whole entry islost.
The cost over novice seems huge, with even more to lose.
Also have to factor in is that we have other members of our household who wish to compete, it doesnt seem fair that money gets poured into one rider leaving the others unable to compete.
If BE would like to 'win me back' this year, they're going to have to seriously reduce their prices.
Even the membership for one horse and rider, how can they justify £200?
I get 4 or 5 magazines a month, a car pass (which I gather they're doing away with) and a website to pay my entries on.... how can they justify £200?
That'll pay for 4 or 5 Unaff Horse Trials, half my season!
I've very much enjoyed competing in BE but have had to call a halt to it because I simply can't afford it.
I don't know how you guys afford Novice and above, the entry fees are ludicrous.
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Totally agree.
Have had too much time on my hands for the last week and spent a few hours working out the BE calander for the OH, ut in the end we decided that the memebership fee would pay for so many other things it wasnt worth joining. There are too many variables, his one horse didnt do much last year, so would have to "start" again, the younger one is an unknown quanity, if he doesnt like eventing its an expensive way to find out.
You run too much of a risk in losing your entry fee if you have to withdraw (events now seem to be offering so many different ideas on what you maybe able to get refunded), also if the ground isnt right and you dont run the whole entry islost.
The cost over novice seems huge, with even more to lose.
Also have to factor in is that we have other members of our household who wish to compete, it doesnt seem fair that money gets poured into one rider leaving the others unable to compete.
gracemoran
Well-Known Member
I have not read all the posts on this forum but I read the first couple. BE can do nothing about stopping unaffiliated events running over BE courses. The land owners are entitled to do with their land exactly as they want BE are not the landowners. Furthermore the actual jumps themselves are not owned by BE (not sure if this is the case with BE owned events ie Blenheim and Badminton however). The jumps are owned by each individual horse trial, for example Powderham sold off all it's portables. I suspect and applaud the fact that BE will be able to do nothing about unaffiliated events! It's about time BE HQ are shaken up.
I am involved in helping run a BE horse trial, despite full sections and a some sponsorhsip we are really struggling to keep the show in the road financially. We have had to increase the entry fees or the event could not function. The levy each event pays to HQ is in my opinion ridiculous and we should be looking at asking BE how this can be significantly reduced. It is no surprise to me that so many events are folding as it is just so difficult to make ends meet. In our report last year for our event the only critisism was that we needed more "flowers" for decoration. Personally I woudl prefer no flowers and cheaper entry fees!!!!
BE should be encouraging organisers but in my opinion they have the wrong attitude hence the state out sport is currently in
I am involved in helping run a BE horse trial, despite full sections and a some sponsorhsip we are really struggling to keep the show in the road financially. We have had to increase the entry fees or the event could not function. The levy each event pays to HQ is in my opinion ridiculous and we should be looking at asking BE how this can be significantly reduced. It is no surprise to me that so many events are folding as it is just so difficult to make ends meet. In our report last year for our event the only critisism was that we needed more "flowers" for decoration. Personally I woudl prefer no flowers and cheaper entry fees!!!!
BE should be encouraging organisers but in my opinion they have the wrong attitude hence the state out sport is currently in
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
I was told by a good source that it cost £400,000 to take a team to Kentucky.
If that's correct, that's why BE have to charge a rider doing a 90cm Intro so much.
If that's correct, that's why BE have to charge a rider doing a 90cm Intro so much.
pearcider
Well-Known Member
Ive read this post and agree with most of it but...
being a rider that competes for owners I know that the owners love the dressed fences. they also will only run their horses if the ground is looked after and I agree with this.
I do agree BE is very expensive but I do not mind paying IF the ground is good, the SJ is well built and the XC looks like a lot of thought has gone in to it.
If an owner is paying for the horse to be trained, competed and coming to watch for the day thay dont want to watch the horse jump sticks (sorry).
but....
I do disagree with the prizes at 90 and 100 they are not even worth waiting for at some events!! Which is such a shame for all owners (and riders) who have put in all the time effort and money to get to an event and done well enough to get placed. My owners dont want to win a red hat silk if they come first!!
At ALW unaff all the prizes were fab we took all our intro horses to ALW unaff as it was run exactly the same as BE but with better prizes and you could quali' for an intro champs that I colud ride in.
At BE Im over qualified as a rider to ride in the intro RF but could ride in the Unaff champ?!!
being a rider that competes for owners I know that the owners love the dressed fences. they also will only run their horses if the ground is looked after and I agree with this.
I do agree BE is very expensive but I do not mind paying IF the ground is good, the SJ is well built and the XC looks like a lot of thought has gone in to it.
If an owner is paying for the horse to be trained, competed and coming to watch for the day thay dont want to watch the horse jump sticks (sorry).
but....
I do disagree with the prizes at 90 and 100 they are not even worth waiting for at some events!! Which is such a shame for all owners (and riders) who have put in all the time effort and money to get to an event and done well enough to get placed. My owners dont want to win a red hat silk if they come first!!
At ALW unaff all the prizes were fab we took all our intro horses to ALW unaff as it was run exactly the same as BE but with better prizes and you could quali' for an intro champs that I colud ride in.
At BE Im over qualified as a rider to ride in the intro RF but could ride in the Unaff champ?!!