BE Verses BD Dressage scoring?!

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xCiaraGx

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Hi,

Hoping to BE this season. 80 and possibly 90 if I can afford it!

I've been meaning to for a while but funds and time were low!

I'm in it to have fun, I've not got some big posh warmblood or proper eventing type- just my beasty, chunky native cross.

We've always scored mid 60's dressage (so 35-30 at BE), which is average I've been told, but all my dressage exploits have been A) poorly executed and these days he'll do a much more refined test, and B) scored under the tough BD Affiliated regime (not a fan- you can probably tell!)

My instructor seems to think we have a good chance at pushing more towards 70's as she thinks BE is judged more sympathetically(?) I'm just interested in other people's thoughts- strictly at 80 level for now.

Thank you!
 
BE is far more generous than BD in my experience. You quite often see 20 to 30 for tests which would scrape a 60 in affiliated dressage.
 
Yes I agree, not sure if the judging is less stringent or that they are just looking for different things.
 
VRIN said:
Yes I agree, not sure if the judging is less stringent or that they are just looking for different things.
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That's what my instructor thinks too. I have actually had BD comments suggesting he'd be more suited to BE dressage as he prefers to work long and low and they are more fixated up that classic uphill, high head carriage (which I think is silly at my level- but hey ho!)
 
DressageCob said:
BE is far more generous than BD in my experience. You quite often see 20 to 30 for tests which would scrape a 60 in affiliated dressage.
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I’d say that’s stretching it slightly, a 60% BD test is not often scored 70-80% at BE I can assure you, however the sentiment is probably right in that I do think BE is in general slightly more generous, as an estimate 3-5% ish.
 
xCiaraGx said:
That's what my instructor thinks too. I have actually had BD comments suggesting he'd be more suited to BE dressage as he prefers to work long and low and they are more fixated up that classic uphill, high head carriage (which I think is silly at my level- but hey ho!)
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You mean that classic, uphill way of going that is a requirement for correct dressage at any level? Yeah, why would you want that, eh?

Having judged both event dressage and dressage dressage, I can tell you that they are indeed different beasties. Hence why I no longer judge event dressage.
 
xCiaraGx said:
That's what my instructor thinks too. I have actually had BD comments suggesting he'd be more suited to BE dressage as he prefers to work long and low and they are more fixated up that classic uphill, high head carriage (which I think is silly at my level- but hey ho!)
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what a weird thing for anyone to say! :rolleyes3: at BD?! I hope you complained.
My baby horse prefers to bumble around on her head but she's no good at the jumpies so she will just have to learn to go in self carriage after all!!

FWIW I found BE a touch more generous than BD but not stupendously so.
 
Same judges generally but a little more lenient BE given you're normally on an uneven field with xc running near by- obedience and a nice regular, rhymical and even test will score very well when BD might want a little more pizaz
 
Cortez said:
You mean that classic, uphill way of going that is a requirement for correct dressage at any level? Yeah, why would you want that, eh?

Having judged both event dressage and dressage dressage, I can tell you that they are indeed different beasties. Hence why I no longer judge event dressage.
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No I understand that's the proper way of going. I used to work on a dressage stud. But I was talking about kiddy classes unaff. I've done two aff on day tickets and I worked hard to do okay then but I've had my boy since I was 13 and I'm not one of those special kids that gets the right horse and all the gear so it's taken till now for us to be here.
I'm just against affiliated marking on young kids- wonder why so many kid prefer jumping- because they're not given low scores and told they "can't"... a pole down is a pole down.

Sorry bit long winded but I'm want to stress Instead not trying to state the proper way of movement is wrong- just that as a kid on a £500 pony it's not what your gunna get.
 
Yes and he's not built for a high head carriage. He worka well from his backend and through his back but with a lower head carriage than what's seen in high class BD.
I'm talking Prelim here too! It's silly they expect so much from the lowest class (excusing intro)!
 
xCiaraGx said:
Sorry bit long winded but I'm want to stress Instead not trying to state the proper way of movement is wrong- just that as a kid on a £500 pony it's not what your gunna get.
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Ah... going to gently pull you up here ;)
Never *never* think that just because you don't have the big bucks, you can't produce good results.
My now-advanced horse cost me £2.
It took a lot of blood sweat and tears but now she holds her own against the fancy megabucks horses. Keep on going with your training and see how far you get :)
 
Hmmm i wouldnt get too excited that scores will drasically improve. BE tends to use the same BD judges. Yes eventing dressage can for (some) judges be marked with slighlty different main concerns... i.e they normally like a touch more froward for BE and like a relaxed horse, but since ots the same judges normally you more or less get the same marks.
 
I agree with dominobrown - BD judges judge BE. Some of them are more sympathetic to tension if they can see the horse wants to go jumping and the x-country is right next to the arena. Equally an obedient test that isn't flashy is likely to score highly since the horse isn't showing tension about wanting to go jumping. They also take into account dips in the arena that wouldn't occur in BD on surface arenas
 
I have competed at BE and BD in the past, I only do BD now, but I teach riders who compete in both disciplines. I do find the BE is a little more lenient, but not massively so, given that both use BD judges.

I also agree with MP, NEVER limit yourself! It doesnt matter how much your horse cost, how old you are etc, be the best you can be, aim high and work hard, you create your own limits.
 
xCiaraGx said:
I'm just against affiliated marking on young kids- wonder why so many kid prefer jumping- because they're not given low scores and told they "can't"... a pole down is a pole down.
.
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I can relate to this and I do think some types score better than others. At least with some judges. My lovely Fell pony did a season of unaff eventing over an affiliated course with the same judges who judge the affiliated events. She was obedient and worked with plenty of energy from behind. She was calm and focused. I really expected to be scoring in the low 30s and we scored over 40! She jumped DC at every event all season but never got a decent test score which did make me think the jumping phases were much more honest. A clear is a clear is a clear.

Amber has scored quite well in dressage generally despite being FAR less obedient but much more flashy with much better paces, First time out stressage we scored 65% ish to win the class and in a practice ODE last summer (again with 'proper' judges) we scored 36 for a truly terrible, tense test.
 
Interesting - I know plenty of horses who score far better at BD than BE! BD - quieter, on a lovely surface for both test and working in; sensible times (for the most part); vs. sometimes ridiculously early departure, unlevel working in areas often in a big open space, lots of activity on site, once cross country starts it can be right next to dressage arenas so not conducive to lovely quiet tests - tannoys for SJ and XC and some horses just don't perform as well while others perform better and as previously said sometimes the arena's themselves are like riding on the moon's surface.

As to scoring it's BD judges so should be scored the same and there are more lenient judges just as there are more draconian ones! I never look at individual score but compare to others in section/class. Also BD your scores tend to be quite consistent whereas BE, you can get a ridiculously low score one week (i.e. a great one) and a ridiculously high one the next time out - often dependent on a) where the XC is situated and b) whether it's started to run!

BE judges tend to like more forward going horses who are also working correctly so not sure long and low would be well received?
 
I have written for a few judges at BD & BE ie same judge at both BE and BD they do not tend to be overly lenient but some will ignore minor "loss of rhythm" (small stumbles) on grass but do not forgive on a surface ( Aston-le-Walls BE ) .
 
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