BE XC fence judging - how to provide 'feedback'

DeliaRides

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So I happily volunteered to fence judge at a BE recently, multiple classes running across Saturday and Sunday, from BE80 up to intermediate. The actual judging bit was ace as ever - I enjoy it and am happy to volunteer and be part of it and hope to sometimes learn something along the way too, plus seeing so many fab horses and riders. However, a couple of things bothered me and I would like to feed back to the venue without them thinking 'some people are never happy' or 'another know it all'. My perspective is:

- Organisation felt like generally a shambles. I have only fence judged at unaffiliated and RC before, and this seemed chaotic by comparison. No real information until Friday morning, asked to come to an 8.15 briefing and to stay until 5.30 (fine, completely as expected, venue is an hour away so early start for us but very happy to do it and have before), then Friday evening another update saying oh we don't actually need you until 12.15 for an afternoon briefing. We were then told after the intermediate at about 4pm that we weren't needed for the BE80 after all. I sort of didn't mind, but having volunteered the whole day (and they were still asking for volunteers 2 days before), I felt a bit yanked around in the end, that I was only needed for 4 hours.
- When we did arrive for the 12.15 briefing, there really was no briefing at all, just handed a pack (no course map or info about which classes were running when and which track/disks were which) and asked to go straight to fence. We did this and it was fine, we have judged before, but there was quite a bit of radio traffic throughout the day that was a bit unhelpful (e.g. people not leaving the channel clear after a fall report, for the relevant people to do what was needed, and people when there was an incident not reporting the important things that I had always been told to report, e.g. is it rider & horse, just rider, is a paramedic needed, and is the course clear or blocked for oncoming riders). When I have done it before radio protocol has always been a key part of the briefing, but of course...no briefing. I run XC at our RC and I know I would be in hot water if I didn't do a judge briefing and then something happened that wasn't correctly handled on the day.

The first point isn't a big issue, but as a willing volunteer, I felt a bit messed about really (and disappointed TBH that I hadn't been able to do more), but the second part felt like it could easily be a safety issue had something gone more wrong than it did. I was a bit disappointed I guess as I had been looking forward to the day and thought as it was BE I might even learn something, but came away with a bit of a poor impression really.

My question is....is it worth feeding these things back? Will anybody really care, when the event overall was successful and riders happy etc? I'm not even saying it would affect me volunteering again because I do enjoy it, I just sort of want them to consider that they left overall a rather poor impression and it's a shame because it isn't stuff that is hard to do a bit better.

Thoughts? (including 'wind your neck in you have no idea how complicated it is running a large event what did you expect you precious snowflake!')
 

khalswitz

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This isn’t typical of BE in my experience fence judging, so it sounds like an issue with organisation of this specific event.

Its a tough one because a bad experience for volunteers puts them off and then they struggle to get enough volunteers next time - so my instinct would be to tell the person who organised the fence judges so they can improve in future. However, some people take things well and some don’t, so without knowing the individuals I don’t know.

I’d be disappointed if I had a day fence judging like that.
 

Tiddlypom

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Do feed back.

I too got thoroughly disillusioned to the standard of organisation of my local BE event and after a series of muddles (not from me) I just packed it in. Being cancelled last minute as too many FJs, then panic no dressage writers or too many, help!

I used to FJ and dressage scribe, and did for years, but no more. I noticed that they were constantly begging for more volunteers for their recent event, wonder if it was the same one?

Feedback would be useful for the organisers. I just stopped volunteering as cba. Pity as I used to enjoy it, and still would volunteer if it wasn’t so shambolic.
 

SOS

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I once gave feedback after an awful days fence judging to a certain company which runs BE events. They never replied directly. The next time they asked for volunteers I didn’t volunteer, and when contacted directly to ask if I was free that day I referred to the points in my email and was told I should count myself lucky to be able to “have an opportunity to witness the sport close up”.

I decided that unfortunately I didn’t feel it was worth a day with no water, half a sandwich and an apple, no break, no toilet facilities and on a chair in a woods to watch people canter past witness the sport close up and I haven’t fence judged for eventing since. It’s too long of a day to get treated like rubbish.

So I wouldn’t hold out hope. If you do give feedback, keep to fact not opinion and maybe offer some resolution e.g “Would it be possible to offer a brief radio protocol overview so everyone is in agreement of how to use them”.
 

ihatework

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I do think it’s worth feeding back yes, as poor radio practices has the potential to be a safety issue. The be web will have central contact details.

ETA and while I have no skin in the game whatsoever for BE or Kelsall- it annoys me that when people so kindly give up their time for free to support a sport I love and then get treated like 💩 I feel like I have to apologise!!

If it helps I’ve done plenty of volunteering and 95% of the time it’s a great experience- so please don’t think it’s like this across the board at BE events
 

Tiddlypom

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It is a safety issue if FJs are out on course who have not been properly briefed because they have missed the one official briefing, which is first thing each day.

URGENT BE XC HELP NEEDED FOR TOMORROW

The one dressage steward and the two dressage writers who were also urgently being called for could probably muddle through even if they’ve never volunteered before, but not a FJ. You can’t have an untrained unbriefed FJ out on course, it’s a very responsible job. Plus wasn’t that when the Intermediate was running?

XC Fence Judge tomorrow - 12.50 until 5pm.

Similar happens there every year, it’s not an unfortunate one off.
 
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lar

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Soon as I saw the title of this post I knew EXACTLY which event you were talking about. I was also one of the "extras" and I'd assumed we must all be experienced judges to send us out without any briefing at all. I appreciate the TD is out on course at this point so they can't do a full briefing but at the very least they could have checked we knew what we were doing.
I also understand they needed to get us out quickly but I just got waved onto the course with no idea where I was going and with no course map in the judges' pack so had to ask someone. I even had to check with her what colour numbers we were on.

Rather more crucially I wasn't given a flag. I did tell the TD this and he said he'd organise one but nothing appeared. I wasn't an official stopping fence but as it turned out I did have to stop a rider so just waved everything I had at him, arms folder etc and he did stop fine but it's not very professional.

On the subject of the radio I have to say this does seem to happen at every event regardless of whether people have been at the briefing. As does not reporting if the course is clear after an incident. Control must be tearing their hair out at times!
 

asmp

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We often FJ for BE and there is one large show that we haven’t been back to for a while as we were told we had to commit to 2 days so paid for a hotel only to find we weren’t really needed the next day. Being messed around does put you off places.

Nowadays though we have found there isn’t much of a briefing as usually everyone is experienced plus you’re supposed to watch the BE training video. Local RCs have more of a briefing as there are usually a few newbies.

We do get frustrated sometimes with the radios when we’re told to keep it clear and concise and you get someone who fancies doing a bit of commentating on how someone has jumped their fence!

We usually rate the BE events on how well we are fed and looked after!
 

sportsmansB

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I am involved in organising in the North of Ireland and we have very strict protocols about attending the briefing. All FJ are sent videos in advance to cover the main rules (including the different type of falls - horse / rider / both) and what to report for each- as well as attendance at the briefing being non negotiable. We allocate fences based on FJ experience. We have an excellent organiser though who organises all the events in our region so she is very clear about who is needed when and she stands down people she doesn't need in advance (she knows she'll need them another day!).
The safety concerns especially about radio use are so important and a Steward should be attending a fence if the FJ is not adhering and explaining to them where they are going wrong. Our Stewards cover a small section of the course each (maybe 5 fences) and tour round their fence judges throughout the XC checking that they know what they are doing and answering any questions.

I do think it is important to feed back in a constructive way - personally I'd email the organisers and cc BE - you might not be invited back to that venue, but it sounds like that isn't a priority anyway! If it saves an accident for someone in the future, it is worth it
 

DeliaRides

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Soon as I saw the title of this post I knew EXACTLY which event you were talking about. I was also one of the "extras" and I'd assumed we must all be experienced judges to send us out without any briefing at all. I appreciate the TD is out on course at this point so they can't do a full briefing but at the very least they could have checked we knew what we were doing.
I also understand they needed to get us out quickly but I just got waved onto the course with no idea where I was going and with no course map in the judges' pack so had to ask someone. I even had to check with her what colour numbers we were on.

Rather more crucially I wasn't given a flag. I did tell the TD this and he said he'd organise one but nothing appeared. I wasn't an official stopping fence but as it turned out I did have to stop a rider so just waved everything I had at him, arms folder etc and he did stop fine but it's not very professional.

On the subject of the radio I have to say this does seem to happen at every event regardless of whether people have been at the briefing. As does not reporting if the course is clear after an incident. Control must be tearing their hair out at times!
H&H not letting me quote properly for some reason! I wonder if we were on the same class - inters on Sat pm? Because I was a stopping fence (11) but the rider was just taking off at my fence when the incident occurred, and a non-stopping fence had to stop them.

I'm glad you felt the same....like you, we weren't even told it was the green numbers or what class it was or anything. I had queried whether control wanted every fence reporting if clear and he said no, then everybody did it anyway and he never stopped them.

Grrrr....anyway....it won't stop me doing it again, I do enjoy it and want to support events where I can, it just seemed like they ought to have been doing a better job really.
 

Tiddlypom

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Volunteers who responded to the short notice calls for fence judges last weekend were assured that ‘No training is required, as all training will be provided on the day’.

Except that it seems that it wasn’t.

As said earlier, this BE venue have plenty of previous, I haven’t volunteered there since pre covid because of the chaos.

Copying in BE to a debriefing email would IMHO be a good course of action.



IMG_1507.jpeg
 

Gamebird

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I volunteer in a fairly crucial role for a 5* event. I had to miss last year, but returned to my role this year. I could not have done the role if I hadn't done it before - absolutely no briefing, and it took me about 45mins to find the location to pick my radio up from, as it had changed since previously, and I got passed round several places before working it out. Then no-one seemed quite sure which radio net to put me on (I know exactly who I need to be able to contact, so it wasn't difficult to work out) and I changed nets about 3 times before the first horse went! It worked, it always does. But probably only because I remembered what to do, as they seem to rely on that rather than briefings!
 

DeliaRides

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Well to circle back on this, and in the interests of fairness, given the venue was 'outed' on the thread, I did provide feedback and have received a detailed and thoughtful response, including acknowledgement of and apology for some of the things I pointed out and a commitment to review what went wrong and to improve in future. I will go back if asked, and from the Facebook feed it looks like the competitors had a great experience, so hopefully this will be treated as a learning for everybody, and the organisation will improve for next season.

Thanks for reassuring me that it was worth feeding back, because I do want to support the sport and be a 'good' volunteer when I can. In fact....this has prompted me to go and register on BE so I can see and hear about other opportunities next season, so perhaps it was a good outcome in several ways!
 

Tiddlypom

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Thanks for the update, @DeliaRides 🙂.

I‘m glad that you got a measured response from the venue. Maybe this is the boot up the bum that they needed to review how they manage their volunteers going forward. Various of us have muttered our misgivings before, and it’s gone nowhere.

It is a fantastic venue.
 
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