BE - XC issues help..

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taimargilbert20

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BE - XC issues

As all you fabulous Horse and Hounde’rs are great with advise and experience I thought I would pick your brains!!

Has anyone had or currently got a horse Eventing that used to have issues XC (mostly the going)? I know a lot of people have horses that might not be great at DR or SJ but I haven’t heard to much of people having issues XC and resolving them to a point where they can be competitive.

I’ve been riding my current ride for a about 3 years now (15.1hh Welsh D) and been slowly bringing him on etc and only recently decided its about the right time to consider starting eventing. He had his first ever event 2 weeks ago and got a 28.5 dressage and clear showjumping! I was over the moon with this as I know people put in huge amounts of effort to get that kind of score yet he does both v.naturally. However XC was a different story…3 stops at three different jumps and sadly we lost our top 3 placing  (he’s jumped all these fences when we’ve done pairs last year)

He really doesn’t like changes in the ground.. to the point where he will spook at a different coloured grass..Every jump he stopped at he stopped because the take off point was churned up (and by stop I mean stopped about 6 strides out spooked and stopped dead then wouldn’t go any closer)…but he jumped it the second time fine…he also hates the change of ground from the grass into the water (yet once he’s in the water is fine)..

I fear doing lots of pairs last year hasn’t done him the favours I thought it would and instead have maybe made him less confident alone and intern started to be quite nappy.. He’s super talented and just want him to be as good and as confident as I know he can be!

Soo long story short my questions are!

Have you ever had or currently have a horse who used to have xc issues – Is yes what did you do, are they eventing now or did you give up etc?
What to do to get over the issues with the going etc?
General XC schooling tips to help gain confidence..

p.s I have started regular lessons with a trainer who gets him!

I can provide videos of what he does if this would be helpful!! Thanks
 
Hi, I have.

I would ask you one thing... As a proportion of your time how much time do you spend jumping SJ in the school as opposed to XC?

I looked at mine that was not keen, and had to say that I did not put half as much time into the XC, so I started travelling, to about 12 courses or so (and no, we don't have that many locally, so we did a lot of driving). We started off hacking at the courses with the odd pop. Then did that followed by a few fences. The a bit more once the horse was cheerful about the whole thing. Some venues have 3 water complexes, so we practised over at least 20 different waters, from a walk and a paddle to a full on ye-ha. But one only followed the other incrementally once the horse was happy.

I also went hunting in the winter, so he had a lead and a bit of excitement.

He became reliable at 100, although he never did enjoy it enough for Novice, so we quit then.
 
He definitely hasn't been out as much XC as I would have liked I'll be honest, however with his first event being a 70cm I didn't feel like lots of schooling was necessary at the time! I'm very lucky we have about 3/4 really good XC courses within 15 minutes so I have made it my plan to go out XC schooling a lot!
I would try hunting but I don't think his brain would cope with hunting!
 
taimargilbert20 said:
BE - XC issues



He really doesn’t like changes in the ground.. to the point where he will spook at a different coloured grass..Every jump he stopped at he stopped because the take off point was churned up (and by stop I mean stopped about 6 strides out spooked and stopped dead then wouldn’t go any closer)…but he jumped it the second time fine…he also hates the change of ground from the grass into the water (yet once he’s in the water is fine)..


What to do to get over the issues with the going etc?
General XC schooling tips to help gain confidence..
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First, well done on doing so well in 2/3rds of the competition - that is a really great start!

How much off road hacking do you do? Proper off road, woods/tracks/beaches etc, moorland if you are near any. If you go with others, does he go in front? Having fun, being a hooligan, enjoying the ride and not worrying about surfaces. Finding even the smallest sticks and logs and ditches to jump.

As Red-1 said, lots of school time has clearly produced results in dressage and SJ, so equal work needs doing on the XC. He can clearly jump, but as you have identified, he needs confidence.

Give him time, he'll be a superstar!
 
Cragrat said:
First, well done on doing so well in 2/3rds of the competition - that is a really great start!

How much off road hacking do you do? Proper off road, woods/tracks/beaches etc, moorland if you are near any. If you go with others, does he go in front? Having fun, being a hooligan, enjoying the ride and not worrying about surfaces. Finding even the smallest sticks and logs and ditches to jump.

As Red-1 said, lots of school time has clearly produced results in dressage and SJ, so equal work needs doing on the XC. He can clearly jump, but as you have identified, he needs confidence.

Give him time, he'll be a superstar!
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Re hacking we don't have a lot of off road hacking near us! We do have woods and tracks etc which he's fine with and he goes in front the whole way! The only time we have issues hacking is when he doesn't like something then he almost says "let the other one go infront mum I don't like it" ..

Thank you so much for your lovely reply !! He really is a super start in the making deep down! Yes I think I'm going to spend the next few months schooling/lessons and try again to do some events come the end of the season..! I'm just struggling to find ways to get him over the stopping/ground issues as in the middle of the course at the event he went lovely really forward and confident but within 2 secs he went back to being worried !
 
If it's changes in surface that he's not confident over then I'd be playing at home with things like shavings and/or soil or paint on the grass to make different patches and possibly walking over sheets of plastic in different colours. Also if he's a bit dithery then I'd bring him back to a trot well before he stops and make him trot up to the jumps. Practice jumping from trot at home. If he's still iffy then bring him right back to a walk and only push for trot the last few strides. BE will penalise you for jumping from a standstill but provided he's moving forwards then you'll be fine.
 
I think if he stops once, then jumps when represented, you are part of the way there, as he is learning from his experience and he is obviously realising the jumps were not as scary as he thought. Much better than the type of horse that throws the toys out of the pram and point blank refuses to jump a fence and gets eliminated. I'd echo the above advice to get him out hacking over lots of varied terrain, with him being on his own or in the lead. Plus lots of XC schooling at different venues, and again go on your own, or make sure he jumps first if you are with a group.
 
Those are such good ideas! Thank you I hadn't even thought of anything like that and that's so simple! I school him a lot at home so could make it something he has to do nearly ever time a ride!
He tends to jump the same in canter or trot he just looses all impulsion as he spooks so far out by the time he gets to the fence its lost..! I'm not planning on going to any events now until its cracked
 
Some horses do have a preferred type of going - mine does not like deep ground, and so I've withdrawn from xc in the past when it's been wet and getting v. muddy around fences. However, as it's changes in going he seems to not like, what's his gallop like? Is it balanced and into the bridle? You say he spooks far out - is that before or after you've started setting him up for the fence? Sometimes, if you set up too early, the horse thinks there must be something scary about the fence that you know about but he can't see, and so backs off.
 
My old 16hh warmblood wouldn't follow her best friend over a telegraph pole on the floor when I first got her and her first HT she wouldn't even canter and just trotted spooking at most things but lots of local HT's later, plus hacking as said above and she turned into a complete XC machine and never had any stops on her BE record so it's more than doable it just schooling and getting them out and about. Good luck it sounds like you'll be a winner once he get's more confident xc.
 
Where do you school at home? If you're in a school all the time, perhaps think about doing far more of your schooling/jumping etc. out on grass to get him used to the various different conditions? None of mine have ever been bothered about mud etc. as I don't have a school at home ;) If the horse was mine, I'd be taking him out to lots of XC schooling and get him confident going up and down different terrain out hacking (jumping the odd fallen log if you see any etc.). At home, I'd probably try walking him over lots of odd things like tarpolin etc. and then riding over it eventually - so he gets used to heaps of different stuff under his feet. I think some horses do struggle a bit with XC though, I had a Welsh Cob who was extremely honest - never stopped, but god did I have to push him on the whole way round as he wasn't a natural galloper and was ridiculously careful so took forever in the air! Just going from the start involved a very very wavy line to the first 3 fences usually, no matter how many times he went XC it's just what he did every time (and never in training)!
 
TBH I think he may be taking the pee a bit

Personally for me if he was stopping dead 6 strides out (especially at 70 cm) I would not turn away- schooling or competition- most horses are perfectly capable of jumping this out of 1 or 2 strides of trot. But, as others have said I would definitely work on confidence 9for both of you)

well done with the DR and SJ...he sounds fab, once you get this sorted it sound slike you will be flying. :)
 
Thanks all for your advice! He's got an amazing gallop and covers the ground much better than most Welsh types! He's got very long legs! Bless him!
The stopping seems to happen even if I'm coming in a xc canter or even if I set him up for the fence!
He lives out all summer so we only have the ppaddock/hacking to school him on so tbh he only really goes on a surface for lessons or shows etc
I'm planning to get him out xc as much as possible the next 2 months! Fingers crossed it's just practice!

Good news though we had a Sj lesson tonight and we had major leaps forward so I'm excited to get Him out xc now!
 
I have one like this... I have spent 5 years on and off between her going back to her owners and coming back to me and now she's here to stay.
She can still be an absolute cow over nothing but has improved 110%. The key for me was to pick events that put things on the schedule to indicate you can continue after your 3 stops as long as you don't get in the way!! we did loads of 70's and 80's before asking her to do 90's. She is very talented and scopey but also incredibly intelligent.
I don't believe she really understood the job to start but now loves it and gets much more focussed on the fences.

She is generally very spooky and i still walk the XC analysing every change in the ground or odd fence and plan my route carefully. I would also be aware of what you feed, some things make her more spooky even though they are low sugar, low starch.
Keep at it, it will come :)
 
Oh, this sounds familiar! We had a PBW who would school happily xc time and time again. Was placed in his first 2 BE's, was in the running after the sj in the second 2 to be eliminated by fence 4 in the xc. Was so frustrating. There was nothing you could put your finger on, he would cater off lovely from the start and stop at the first jump, jump it 2nd time and so on. He was ridden strongly but guess he was stronger.
He is now in a lovely RC home and is excelling at dressage.
 
I have a welsh who used to stop at everything and I mean everything even a pole on the ground! He is now so so so much better and we generally go clear xc and sj now. Just took lots of hard work and practice. I have had him six years and it was only really last season that he got better.
Think its the welshies! They act like big tough guys but deep down are quite insecure!
 
It's refreshing to hear your stories so thanks guys!
I sometimes forget how far he's come! 3 years ago he hadnt even been sat on at 3 and. 1/2 and a year and a half out due to hock issues at 4 hes really only been in "proper" work for 2 1/2 years!
I'm really going to put lots of hard work in This season so fingers crossed

And yes to the Welsh comment! Haha he thinks he's a 16.3hh stallion on the outside but on the inside he acts like a big baby hehe! Got to love them tho!
 
Lots of good advice give already.
Just going to add that i had a Thoroughbred mare (failed racehorse) that i wasn't going to event as very spooky (although not at the jumps themselves) - she wouldn't even canter over patches of different coloured sand at the beach. A top event rider said her advanced event horse was the same, but turned into a different horse when competing, so I gave her a go. As with someone else here, i did not have an arena and all her schooling (except teaching her to jump) was on natural surfaces or roadsides so she learnt to go everywhere when asked. We rarely hacked with others as i don't like it interfering with the horses event training, but when i did she spent 50% of the time in front and 50% behind to teach different skills.
She ended up both one and three day eventing (old format with steeplechase) - she never stopped at the fences, as once she focussed on the jump she knew to go forward; however, even at this level she would still occassionally hit the brakes in order to slow down and jump a patch of dirt! I learnt to be prepared for it and allow for it in the timing. So, I agree with others that you can do this if you build up the confidence out hacking, and make sure he is also obedient when jumping in the school.
Just enjoy the process of improving your horse gradually, and don't worry about how long it takes.
 
My last horse was spooky and stoppy and would also stop at patches of different coloured grass! I rode every single XC fence like my life depended on getting over it. Not that I galloped at everything, mind, but that I was super-determined and I made sure she knew it! We went up to Novice, but she was still a bit prone to stopping.
 
Do you 'test' him after training when you xc school? - I went to a clinic with Paul Tapner recently and he pointed out how often people go xc schooling and practice various fences and go in and out of water and so on, and then finish and go home, without saving any 'new' fences to test a horse over once it's learnt something new. Just something else to consider, perhaps!
 
May seem obvious- but do you use studs? I knowI always have to use big studs for my pony as he takes so much confidence from them- hates slippy ground too!
 
Yeah he pretty much always has studs xc and always at a show, I try to sschool/jump him at home without spending he doesn't depend on them and tbh now at home he's much better on most ground types, it's mostly at events now x
 
Lots of XC schooling and you will get him right. He's Welsh. He reserves the right to be careful of odd coloured ground. I'm confident you will get over it tho, he sounds brilliant.
 
Thank you! When he's in form hes amazing! Nearly jumped me off in our lesson this week! Just going to take more time! But got all the time in the world for him to become a little superstar 😀
 
I think he sounds welsh :p

and is being redic

and welsh ;).

The putting the handbrake on that far away sounds familiar. I can't give any better advise than everyone else has though :DI think we'd like some pics ;)
 
ester said:
I think he sounds welsh :p

and is being redic

and welsh ;).

The putting the handbrake on that far away sounds familiar. I can't give any better advise than everyone else has though :DI think we'd like some pics ;)
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Haha this made me laugh so much!!! Love it! I will get some welshie pictures for you all!!! Don't tell him tho he loves the attention!
 


I can't remember how to upload photos here!! Hope this link works!http://s40.photobucket.com/user/taimargilbert/library/?view=recent&page=1
 
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The thing that terrifies many horses (who are otherwise as bold as anything) is the suspicion that they are about to step into a bottomless bog and that the last that will be seen of them is their welsh /Irish nostrils disappearing into the mud. Seriously!. Bob the nota cob is insanely brave and loves water,but he can spot boggy ground a mile off,even the smell of the water used on Epsom racecourse freeks him out. Thinks.... I know it hasnt rained , so why does that bit of ground smell suspiciously wet...Best to avoid it. Same with changes of grass colour this is a sure indicator of a change in the ground. Your horse needs to get out and see more of the world. And remember ,in his own mind he is not refusing ,but merely trying to save you both from disaster.
 
My part bred Welsh has the same suspicions about different coloured bits of ground. He spooks at different coloured grass as well. Yesterday he nearly tanked me off the XC course because they'd laid a bit of carpet and woodchip over the road crossing and obviously that was going to kill him. Last week he nearly jumped me off because he jinxed over a fence when he spotted they'd put some different coloured sand on the landing side. He spends the entire XC round spooking at the other fences on course whilst jumping his own fine. If he wasn't so good I would despair of him but he's off to Badminton Grassroots next week so there is hope for all the daft, spooky Welsh ones!
 
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