ester
Not slacking multitasking
So get every dog behaviour tested regardless of breed? How often do you do that test as obviously behaviour can change quite a lot, quite quickly.
Beagle killed in dog attack
- Thread starter Moobli
- Start date
Alec Swan
...
I'm really sorry Oz, but though you and I see eye to eye on most things, ^^^^ this I cannot agree with. When we consider dogs which because of their breeding and so their former use, do we allow every one of the the freedom that — ** Every dog's allowed one bite**? So the dangerous-unmanagable-owned by clowns as status symbols - are allowed to be kept and bred with until they reinforce their rational in life? Honestly?
We can keep lions here too, providing that we apply to our local council for a licence. The application and the terms and conditions are such that very few bother, and as you seem to suggest, do we decide upon which are safe to be kept by the simple selection process whereby only those which have yet to kill someone are considered safe? Make no mistake, there are those breeds of dog in this country, often kept in multiples, and some have killed humans, and there are plenty of others which are bombs ticking quietly away.
Alec.
cobgoblin
Bugrit! Millennium hand and shrimp.
SpringArising
Well-Known Member
I'm sick of reading stupid quotes like this:
"If that had been a child or a baby, it would have killed them. There are children that play on that street every single night."
Well, no, if that had been a child or baby, it wouldn't have killed them. Because the dog didn't attack the HUMAN, it attacked the DOG. The human just so happened to get in the middle of the attack.
Seriously are some people just super dense and don't understand the difference between a human and a dog?
cobgoblin
Bugrit! Millennium hand and shrimp.
LuckyLoki
New User
The dogs attacked a dog that was being walked by a human. Due to the typical human dog relationship, most dogs that are attacked by other dogs will have a human in close proximity, often attached to the dog by a short leash.
In this case the attacking dogs showed no bite inhibitions towards humans once they were in attack mode. She might not have been their original target, but it simply didnt save her either. So yes, if that woman had been accompanied by a child it could have been a much greater disaster.
Most breeds in a dog fight will back off in confusion if they accidentally bite a human. Obviously these are too focused on their prey to do that.
I've seen advice on what to do if a dog attacks the dog you're with and it seems to be , save yourself, let the dog die. I can't imagine how I could ever do that. So I understand exactly what that woman did.
You say you are sick of stupid quotes like the above. I'm sick of people who think dog on dog aggression at that level is acceptable. I've lived with multiple dogs all my life. Domination scuffles that are all noise and hair are one thing. The need to kill is something else entirely.
I am inclined towards thinking that dogs that were bred for aggression towards other animals need to be licenced and have restrictions on who can own. I understand they can be made into civilised citizens, but it takes a balanced human being to produce a balanced dog . And these dogs attract way too many of the unbalanced kind.
Alec Swan
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Mmmm, not too sure about that. I've had GSDs which were hard as nails against a man and soft as butter with another dog and obviously the other way about too, …. HOWEVER these aren't GSDs, these are dogs with a mindset like no other. To suggest that a dog which wishes to kill another dog won't turn it's attentions to a small person is dangerously off line.
It seems that those who went to the assistance of the dog walker, when they attempted to intervene, were also bitten and that speaks to me of two dogs, SBTs according to the report, which need to be destroyed, post haste, then if the report is correct and there is a third dog, then the owner needs to have that other dog confiscated and put that down too and I'm being entirely serious. Do I care about the third dog? Not one bit. I care that a message is sent out to the idiots who buy dogs without any thoughts as to their responsibilities.
Alec.
Alec Swan
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CorvusCorax
Deary me...
A dog that goes out of its way, in that it covers a distance (especially an open space) and without any provocation, to attack another dog, is very unhappy/not right in the head IMO. It's not normal.
It also really isn't unusual for fighting dogs to redirect onto whatever other obstacle is placed in their way. Intervening adult, someone on the periphery included.
It also really isn't unusual for fighting dogs to redirect onto whatever other obstacle is placed in their way. Intervening adult, someone on the periphery included.
SpringArising
Well-Known Member
The person in the article said "If that [the Lab?] had been a child or a baby, it would have killed them. There are children that play on this street every single night" - that implies to me, that the man thinks the dogs are just as likely to run up to children and attack them. Which is ignorant and presumptuous. The dogs went for the Lab. NOT the human. The lady tried to break up the fight and got bitten in the process. Those are the facts. I think you'll find that anyone who tries to break up a dog fight has a damned good chance of getting bitten or caught in the middle of it, hence why the advice is generally, do not attempt to break up a dog fight unless you have a very good idea of what you're doing.
I've had four Staffies from pups to old age and a fifth who's a rescue, plus one EBT, so I'm pretty familiar with a Staffie's typical characteristics and know them very well. I'm not speculating on any of what I say.
I'll be the first to admit that generally, Staffies, usually the males, are absolute arse$ with others. I've written it on here before and I have no problem saying it - I'm not in denial!
The reason I get irritated by comments like the above is because they always come from people who have never owned the breed and assume that because they attack dogs, they attack people. And that is SO damaging to the breed and really disheartening for responsible owners.
I've had more Chihuahuas and Jack Russells and small fluffy things yap and growl at me (and my dogs) than I have ever had ANY Bull type dog do, ever. But you don't really hear about that because people enjoy Staffy/Pitbull/Bully propaganda more than anything else when it comes to dog attacks. Let's face it - 'Maltipoo attacks Labrador' is hardly a page-turner, is it?
No one thinks that this dog, or any, being attacked is acceptable - if I did my own dog would be let off every day and I'd take a punt, but he's not. He's on a lead at all times, I try to walk places which won't be filled with other dogs, and if I need to take him somewhere like my PIL's who have five dogs, he wears a muzzle too, just in case. If you put down every Staffy who attacked other dogs, there'd be very few of them left. I'd imagine there'd be a hell of a lot less dogs left in general if we were forced to put to sleep every dog, regardless of breed, who was dog-reactive.
They are bred to fight, as TBs are bred to run. Surely you understand why that is usually their first instinct, therefore, normal for them?
CorvusCorax
Deary me...
I've never had any problem with a Staff or EBT, ever, they've all been completely dog neutral even when passing on a narrow path.
Maybe the ones I see have that instinct bred out of them. I'm all for dogs having strong characteristics and to be true to their breed type, but there is no place for dogs displaying that trait, in modern society. Sorry.
Maybe the ones I see have that instinct bred out of them. I'm all for dogs having strong characteristics and to be true to their breed type, but there is no place for dogs displaying that trait, in modern society. Sorry.
Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
I agree with CC that most dogs will undergo a level of discussion before they fight - at least to check out if the opposer is a dog or a bitch for instance.
SpringArising
Well-Known Member
That's my experience also. Our bitch is fine with other dogs and always has been, in fact she's scared of them and will run in the opposite direction and do all she can to avoid them, while our dogs have all been reactive to other dogs but OK with bitches and small dogs.
Fidgety
Well-Known Member
Based on personal experience, dogs DO go up to children and attack them. The one that attacked my daughter - who was simply sat on the floor playing with another dog in the family did just that and - with absolutely no warning. A dog that was a cross of two dogs that apparently are known for their good and gentle characters, that are not bred to attack or herd and the owners to all intents and purposes were 'responsible'. And when I read 'ignorant and presumptuous' comments like the above by people who have never experienced a dog that has attacked somebody without provocation themselves it really irritate sme.
SpringArising
Well-Known Member
Hold up, quote me at the part where I said dogs don't attack children or attack people unprovoked? I think you'll have a hard time.
If you read back my post carefully, I said people think that because certain dogs were bred to fight and therefore attack dogs, think that they are just as likely to attack humans, which is rubbish.
twiggy2
Well-Known Member
In fact most fighting breeds are bred to be very human tolerant (as are lurchers and working terriers) this is because those that breed them for fighting have to stitch them back up themselves after fighting ( they cannot go to a vet after all) and this is often done without any sedation or pain relief.
The same for lurchers and working terriers any dog that shows human aggression is dumped or killed, I have experience of all these types of dogs when sick, ill or in terrible pain and they are all human tolerant.
For fighting dogs that have fought they are in survival mode during a fight, they will bite anything.
I have experience of pitballs forced to fight and those that have been removed before that happened and they are very different dogs.
No breed of dog fights for fun some are just bred to have fantastic tools in the event of a fight.
I agree with the poster who said a dog that goes out of its way to attack is not right in the head and in my experience that dog would have been forced to fight or survive at some point.
I also agree that it takes a stable person to produce a stable dog and somehow dog ownership/ training etc should be licensed.
The same for lurchers and working terriers any dog that shows human aggression is dumped or killed, I have experience of all these types of dogs when sick, ill or in terrible pain and they are all human tolerant.
For fighting dogs that have fought they are in survival mode during a fight, they will bite anything.
I have experience of pitballs forced to fight and those that have been removed before that happened and they are very different dogs.
No breed of dog fights for fun some are just bred to have fantastic tools in the event of a fight.
I agree with the poster who said a dog that goes out of its way to attack is not right in the head and in my experience that dog would have been forced to fight or survive at some point.
I also agree that it takes a stable person to produce a stable dog and somehow dog ownership/ training etc should be licensed.
CorvusCorax
Deary me...
It can also be a sign of massive insecurity Twiggy.
A dog that is so insecure that it feels the need to go out of its way to see off a 'perceived' danger. That was certainly the case in one of the dogs that has targeted mine. It's not a bull breed.
It went across a field, over a fence, through a gate and into a car park, where mine was minding his own business having a pee. The same dog has done this on multiple occasions, males and females.
It is constantly on the alert, gets distracted by anything that moves within a 200m radius and shows extreme stress around human beings (paw in the air, whale eye) but apparently he's just misunderstood.
A dog that is so insecure that it feels the need to go out of its way to see off a 'perceived' danger. That was certainly the case in one of the dogs that has targeted mine. It's not a bull breed.
It went across a field, over a fence, through a gate and into a car park, where mine was minding his own business having a pee. The same dog has done this on multiple occasions, males and females.
It is constantly on the alert, gets distracted by anything that moves within a 200m radius and shows extreme stress around human beings (paw in the air, whale eye) but apparently he's just misunderstood.
Fidgety
Well-Known Member
You said ' "If that [the Lab?] had been a child or a baby, it would have killed them. There are children that play on this street every single night" - that implies to me, that the man thinks the dogs are just as likely to run up to children and attack them. Which is ignorant and presumptuous.'
I've italicised where you say that the commentator was ignorant and presumptuous for saying that dogs can attack humans (specifically, children playing on the street) unprovoked.
Fidgety
Well-Known Member
That is my own interpretation of what caused the dog to attack my daughter that night. It had had two other previous homes over a 12 month period and and only been in its current home for 3 months. Visitors came and suddenly the heirarchy and dog's place in the herd was turned upside down. My daughter sitting on the floor and playing with the oldest dog (of three) was an opportunity/trigger.
Alec Swan
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The sad thing of course, is that they do. Any dog which is purpose bred, and when denied it's usual prey WILL make use of whatever's available.
Alec.
cobgoblin
Bugrit! Millennium hand and shrimp.
The problem is that, where there is a dog, in a public situation, there should also be a human as well. Be that the owner, handler or walker.... and as most people are not such shites as to walk away and allow their pet to be ripped apart in front of their eyes, then any dog that attacks other dogs without provocation is also a danger to humans.
Such behaviour cannot be excused by saying 'oh they just attack dogs'.... and to do so is frankly stupid.
twiggy2
Well-Known Member
A bite to drive a perceived threat off I agree can be a sign of insecurity, I can only comment from first hand experience and for me I have never witnessed a nervous or insecure dog that keeps going till another dog is seriously injured or dead unless cornered, they want to drive the threat away not kill it.
It's terrible that dogs end up like that though.
SpringArising
Well-Known Member
So can you tell me then, why out of the five I've owned, who have all had a pop at other dogs, not one of those, over their 12 year average, has ever showed ANY aggression towards ANY human, what so ever? Your statement is fallible.
CorvusCorax
Deary me...
Fair enough Twiggy. Luckily enough humans have always been on hand quickly to break things up (I was knocked over and my own dog was on an extending lead which was as much use as a chocolate fireguard...)