Beating a horse who refuses?

Is he beating the horse or smacking him? Beating is obviously a complete no no, zero tolerance and that would be the end of that imo, no second chances.

The use of the stick behind the leg I do not have an issue with. If my horse refuses and I've given him no reason to refuse, he will immediately get the stick behind the leg once and we go again. I am an amateur, and there will be times where I won't get it right and he has to try and figure things out for himself - sometimes I'll come in on a dodgy one, but as long as I haven't buried him he should give it a go. If he's in a dodgy spot then self-preservation kicks in and then a stop is fair enough. But he must always be thinking forward and over unless it's not safe to do so.
 
If the first stop had him on his knees, then he didn't stop 'on purpose' - horses don't like falling over, and wouldn't choose to put themselves in that situation!

If it was an accident the first time (as in, not naughtiness) and the rider hit/beat him...well, he's an Arab; I know ours would certainly take offence at that and refuse to have anything more to do with you until he felt like you'd learned your lesson.

I'd give him a break from jumping, and if you do continue with this rider make it absolutely clear that it's your horse, your rules - he doesn't get to beat him, he needs to find another way.
 
Beating. Four hard smacks with the whip after he had got onto his feet after falling onto his knees.

Today his legs seem fine, he did some work in the arena under supervision of our trainer. We all looked at the video, my visiting trainer said, there was no way the horse could have jumped the fence.

We are at the end of the SJ season, he has done some great work this year until last weekend, he was a superb endurance horse before he started jumping. There is no pressure so he will have a couple of months of flat work and hacking. My english friend will come and jump him once a week.

Thank you again for your replies.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
Rollin, shame you couldn't get the likes of Seb back on board as he's such a positive but quiet rider. He really helped me out a couple of years ago, I've a lot of time for him :)
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If I had the dosh to continue bringing on my young horses in France AND send Woody back to Seb, I would do it tomorrow. Seb loved Woody. `Our rider in France is very talented but I never feel he has empathy with my horse. As I have said, everything we breed is 'special'.
 
NZJenny said:
I don't understand why riders, when things go wrong, will always punish the horse first instead of looking to themselves. You see it all the time - the rider gets it wrong (or doesn't notice things are going wrong) and the horse gets blamed. Not just in show jumping either!

If the horse isn't paying attention, then that is up to the rider to correct. If the horse has the stride wrong, or the bend or is dropping a shoulder or whatever, it is up to the rider to correct it. As a rider, that's our end of the bargain.
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^^ Hugely agree with this
 
Casey76 said:
No, it is very common. One trainer who comes to our yard regularly leaves welts on horses he is "schooling," and there are at least two horses who are absolutely terrified of him (and no, he doesn't go anywhere near my horses!)
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Well doesn't he sound like a delight...
 
Rollin said:
Beating. Four hard smacks with the whip after he had got onto his feet after falling onto his knees.
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If it happened in the ring, I'm surprised the jury didn't say anything (even in Amateur classes). All of our local judges would come down heavily on more than one or two slaps down the shoulder or flank.
 
Rollin said:
If I had the dosh to continue bringing on my young horses in France AND send Woody back to Seb, I would do it tomorrow. Seb loved Woody. `Our rider in France is very talented but I never feel he has empathy with my horse. As I have said, everything we breed is 'special'.
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I'm sorry but part of being talented is being able to read the horse and know when a smack is required and when it's not - your rider failed to read the situation correctly and understand when the horse was on the wrong stride from what you've said- he may be bold, positive and daring but is he really talented? Empathy is needed especially with a stallion and a bad experience needs to be handled correctly - you can tell a gelding, ask a mare and discuss with a stallion. You need to exercise some damage limitation and IMO that starts with a new jockey.
 
Our vet was out yesterday to check out our boy. He is sound but just a tiny bit short after his fall, he landed on the filler. No heat swelling or lumps. It is the end of the SJ season for us, so he will just have some winter hacking and flat work. An English friend has offered to pop a couple of fences with him, once a week, in our own arena. We will bring him back into SJ in the spring. I am pleased he is not seriously hurt.
 
Rollin said:
Beating. Four hard smacks with the whip after he had got onto his feet after falling onto his knees.

Today his legs seem fine, he did some work in the arena under supervision of our trainer. We all looked at the video, my visiting trainer said, there was no way the horse could have jumped the fence.

We are at the end of the SJ season, he has done some great work this year until last weekend, he was a superb endurance horse before he started jumping. There is no pressure so he will have a couple of months of flat work and hacking. My english friend will come and jump him once a week.

Thank you again for your replies.
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I think hitting a horse after it has fallen over is just bloody cruel, as someone else said horses don't want to fall over it wasn't his fault, I wouldn't let him ride again that is not my idea of a professional rider I would me mortified if someone did that to my horse, I am glad your stallion is okay it could have been a lot worse and I hope it's not knocked his confidence for jumping.
 
Rollin said:
I am minded to find another rider for next year. As for discussion with the rider - this is much more difficult when you are speaking in a second language. He is an excellent rider and experienced SJ.
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I'd have been 'minded' after the first beating.
 
Rollin said:
Beating. Four hard smacks with the whip after he had got onto his feet after falling onto his knees.
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So the tosspot punished him for falling! Frankly he sounds like a cretin who can't control his temper! I wouldn't let him on any horse of mine again. And an Arab stallion!!! You can tell a gelding, you ask a mare, and negotiate an outcome with a stallion - and Arabs much more so! I still remember - from 1972 - when Art Uytendaal got on my TB gelding who'd been stopping. His OH rushed up with a whip - Art said: No-no - not THIS horse! And he took him around with a little niggling - and he jumped everything! It was that judgement made Art Uytendaal the best SJ rider and trainer in Oz - and hell, ask any of the top riders who were around when he brought Tongala to England. All about judgement and KNOWING the horse!

The rider of your boy has NO judgement! Kick him off and find a rider on YOUR terms. If he keeps abusing your boy, he will - sooner or later - be killed by him! Stallions remember abuse - and they will draw a line.
 
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