Clodagh
Well-Known Member
I should know the answer to this. But if a dog (lab) had two black parents can it still throw yellow pups with a black bitch who carries yellow? So far as I know he hasn’t been tested.
Because my head has thought itself in a circle
- Thread starter Clodagh
- Start date
CorvusCorax
Justified & Ancient
If you Google 'Labrador colour genetics' there should be charts which show you what combination can throw what. I always have to look charts up for my own breed lol.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
I suspect it will depend going back on if there is any yellow in the breeding. And life’s too short for me to research that!
CorvusCorax
Justified & Ancient
Colour genetics boggles my mind. A black dog can be genetically white, etc etc 
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
I’m better with chickens, but yes in chooks a lavender one is genetically black.Colour genetics boggles my mind. A black dog can be genetically white, etc etc
Annette4
Well-Known Member
I would assume so, I have no actual knowledge to base that on outside of Fizz's parents were both solid black but threw 6 fawn bridle and white puppies.....I am aware that's probably not helpful 
blackcob
🖖
Another excuse to link to my favourite site - Labrador example
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
Yes.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
That’s very good.
Spotherisk
Well-Known Member
Reckon so. Ghillie’s litter had black, red and yellow in it (I know there’s no such thing as red, but just differentiating in the tones in the litter). She had black and yellow, I can’t remember the sires breeding, he was black and would have had at least one black parent.
blackcob
🖖
Have you sat down with your punnet square yet 
It’s the same genes at play as in schips which is why I have an interest, only they also have a bobtail gene to contend with (and some rare anomalies like black and tan from the recessive blacks).
It’s the same genes at play as in schips which is why I have an interest, only they also have a bobtail gene to contend with (and some rare anomalies like black and tan from the recessive blacks).
Katieg123
Well-Known Member
This is a great website! I'm very much enjoying exploring it!
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
I can’t really do the punnet square, I don’t think, as i don’t know what genes he’s got. But the other stud dogs on his page say carry yellow and he doesn’t so I’ll assume he’s homozygous and they’ll all be black. Which is fine, I’m after a black one this timeHave you sat down with your punnet square yet
It’s the same genes at play as in schips which is why I have an interest, only they also have a bobtail gene to contend with (and some rare anomalies like black and tan from the recessive blacks).
blackcob
🖖
Yep - T-box gene same as Pembroke corgis and vallhunds, results in a natural bob. Usually a short stump rather than tailless. The breed club is all over testing for it to avoid lethal matings of T-box to T-box, but the one-copy-affecteds are permissible and shown. Plenty of (imported) docked dogs still in the ring too.
ETA: More importantly who and when is the black one?!
ETA: More importantly who and when is the black one?!
Last edited:
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
A long way away! But not far enough (unless someone would like to puppy walk for me?) I’m not that keen on puppies, I prefer sleep!
Pen’s younger sister by the same dog is just coming into season. I’ve had my name down for a couple of years! It’s slightly late in the year to be perfect but we’ll muddle through. I think it should come home about the end of July so I have a month before the partridges.
Not to get it working, you understand
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
And what happens if t box to t box? Deformed or dead at birth?
blackcob
🖖
Yes two copies is embryonic lethal, so die in utero. If I recall correctly T-box to clear you'd expect 50% bobtails T/t, 25% normal tails t/t and a 25% reduction in litter size to account for the TT. Been a while since I sat through that discussion though.
druid
Well-Known Member
Bob to Clear/normal you'd get 50% bob, 50% normal. Bob to bob you'd get 50% bob, 25% normal and 25% lethal double T box
Last edited:
blackcob
🖖
My understanding is that it's autosomal dominant, bob to bob always lethal.
druid
Well-Known Member
UCD Davis Genetics of Bob Tail link - unless it's a different gene in Schips?
Eta it is Autosomal dominant but that supports my figures above - Bob is T/t....the lethal ones are T/T tailess/dead in utero so we never/rarely see them
Autosomal recessive would require 2 copies of the gene for phenotypic/visible expression
blackcob
🖖
This is the info from the breed club:
Looking at the recent KC release for the new DNA testing scheme and doing a good ole' mental punnet square you've now got me wondering if they've got the wrong end of the stick (or at least worded it badly - by T box to T box mating they mean producing a homozygous puppy? Not all the outcomes of the mating itself. But then the last line contradicts that.)
Looking at the recent KC release for the new DNA testing scheme and doing a good ole' mental punnet square you've now got me wondering if they've got the wrong end of the stick (or at least worded it badly - by T box to T box mating they mean producing a homozygous puppy? Not all the outcomes of the mating itself. But then the last line contradicts that.)
druid
Well-Known Member
Thier maths makes no sense, someone has definetly screwed it up. I'd trust UC Davis over the KC genetics team honestly!#
From the KC website also....which contradicts what you've linked from them
Poor breeders trying to work it out!How is it inherited?
The abnormal copy of the gene behaves as autosomal dominant in respect to bobtail, and as autosomal recessive in respect to neonatal death. This means that a dog must inherit two copies of an abnormal gene (one from its mother and one from its father) before its health is affected, but only one copy is required to shorten the tail.
blackcob
🖖
I will mention it to the breed health coordinator this week and make sure I’m not being thick. With a 5am start she may have to explain it to me in very small words!
Thistle
Well-Known Member
Yes, both parents must be black carrying yellow, despite showing a black coat colour
Scroll down past the fluffy bits to skipping generations https://www.thelabradorsite.com/labrador-colors/
Scroll down past the fluffy bits to skipping generations https://www.thelabradorsite.com/labrador-colors/
maisie06
Well-Known Member
I'd say yes - a friends lab bitch - black has had pups to a black dog and has black yellow and fox red in the litter!
poiuytrewq
Well-Known Member
Absolutely nothing to add other than your getting a puppy!!! 
You must be mad
You must be mad
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
So… my booked and planned puppy is not happening. Why don’t bitches ever read the rule book?
So I need to find another one, not now this minute. My ideal puppy is one born in December/January so I have the spring and summer before life gets too hectic.
I am worried about the age range of my pack v how long big bag (and therefore well paid) game shooting will go on.
So I need to find another one, not now this minute. My ideal puppy is one born in December/January so I have the spring and summer before life gets too hectic.
I am worried about the age range of my pack v how long big bag (and therefore well paid) game shooting will go on.
BallyRoanBaubles
Well-Known Member
Oh that’s disappointing, take it it’s a lab you’re after?