Becoming a dressage judge

ihatework said:
Well theoretically they can only judge what they see. (Or which name they see … naughty IHW), and shouldn’t be trying to second guess the reason why. It’s just what it is at that moment in time. In a year it could look completely different.
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Yes, but I think this is what leads to people employing quick fix training methods. Or getting upset/frustrated/despondent because they're doing the right training, but the marks still aren't moving upwards.
 
RachelFerd said:
Yes, but I think this is what leads to people employing quick fix training methods. Or getting upset/frustrated/despondent because they're doing the right training, but the marks still aren't moving upwards.
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Agree, but that’s a competitor ‘issue’ not a judging fault. We have all been there though at one time or another. Lots of inexperienced competitors haven’t quite grasped it and that is where unfair judge bashing comes in.
 
ihatework said:
Agree, but that’s a competitor ‘issue’ not a judging fault. We have all been there though at one time or another. Lots of inexperienced competitors haven’t quite grasped it and that is where unfair judge bashing comes in.
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Yes, and having been the mug sat there trying to differentiate between 20 different versions of the same intro test being ridden by people without much knowledge about dressage, what you say and how you score is really hard. You don't want comments to be misconstrued. You don't want to come down overly harsh - because it is just meant to be a friendly intro - but then you've got endless examples of horses missing big chunks of education, wildly inaccurate test riding... but you don't want to come out of it having given most people a 55% and being the nasty judge. But you also don't want to come out of having given everyone 70% and them toddling off thinking their training is all perfectly on track. And that 15% is basically the difference between a really bad score and a really good score in people's eyes - which leaves you trying to score every manner of basic way of going fault within the 5.5-7.5 range.... which doesn't really give you a meaningful reflective score at the end. I don't know how to fix this. I'd probably score intro/prelim totally differently on a wider set of 'way of going' collectives rather than try and mark each movement in the way we currently do.
 
ihatework said:
And this is why there is so much variation DC.

I actually disagree with you that all horses start on a 10. I think the quality of the gaits does play a part.

But any horse in my mind that has a correct gait, is going forwards in a nice way of going should be an 8.0 (good) as a starting point. Even if they are not world beaters. A 6.0 in my mind is actually saying there is something a bit wrong with the way of going, even if the movement was performed as per the sheet.

And this folks, it why stressage is sometimes a bit of a mind-feck!

Eta - if a dressage judge says to you ‘well this trots for a 6’, I would interpret that as overall way of going - E.g. tight back, hocks out, not forwards etc. It’s a kind of overall evaluation of the little things.
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I agree with you there. The problem was it wasn't because the horse was tight or hollow...she explained that she judged that after it set off down the centre line. It was purely based on the natural way of going. The one which was an 8 wasn't even in a true outline, and wasn't tracking up, but his knees were going high and he was flicking out his toes. That's what irritated me.

I think every horse should have the potential to get a 10. I wouldn't condone prejudging before the movement starts, especially since some walk until they get called in, others are in the canter etc. But in reality for a horse to get a 10 it needs to be forwards, straight, working properly etc. and be out of the ordinary level of excellent.

What I would like is for all horses to start at the same level, say an 8, and go down from there (and some, occasionally, up from there). What isn't fair is for a horse working correctly, through its back, into the contact, with the correct flexion etc to have a ceiling of a 6 because it doesn't have the flash of a warmblood. If it boils down to simply who buys the best horse, what's the point of having a competition at all? We can just have a list of who bought which Sandro Hit, Glamourdale, Totilas etc horse off which top level rider and for how much money.
 
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