bed wetting collie dog

AceAmara

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can anyone offer advice? we’ve tried so many things but hopeful someone might have something else to suggest.

we have a young collie dog, he is nearly 2. On our vets advice he was neutered at 10 months, Ive had dogs all my life and never done this so early but he seriously was a dominant little so and so. We have an older bitch and he humped her constantly, pinning her by her neck. We’ve experience with previous dogs and hubby has had working spaniels but we’ve never come across such a dominant and stubborn pup. We got him at 10 weeks, he bounced in full of himself from day one, thought he could growl at us over his bowl etc but that was quickly stopped and he wouldn’t dare now. He basic training is good, his recall is great and despite a strong eye we’ve got him so that he will listen and come away from stock. He was a nightmare to toilet train however and weed in the house not just because he was desperate to go but constantly marking , which was another reason the vet said to whip the jewels off. He has to be crated overnight and if Im out. I’m only away for about 3 hours a day through the week and he has plenty of exercise and stimulation.He’s walked plenty and is out with me with the horses most of the day and we do keep his training up to keep his mind busy. However, every morning I have to wash his vetbed and frequently also when I come home after being out, he has both a wet and dirty bed. ( this didnt start after he was neutered, it was already happening) He isn’t incontinent and he has no infection or bladder weakness; Ive watched him go outside, poo and do a few wee’s then I bring him inside and put him into his crate for bed and Ive caught him consciously cocking his leg onto his bedding. Quite often in the morning he has pooed in it as well. It’s driving me nuts and my washing machine can barely keep up! He’s been told off for it when he’s been caught in the act; his bedding is washed and the crate washed out with biological washing powder solution which Im told is best for removing any trace of the smell. I should add that he is quite happy and relaxed in his crate and has chews to keep him occupied but usually sleeps - in his wet bed eeugh. If I dont crate him he will still wee on his bedding but will also destroy the contents of the room given the chance. He really seems not to care about a wet bed either! We’ve tried removing the bedding altogether in the hope of breaking the cycle but he just made a puddle and sat in it! We also make sure his bladder is properly empty before bed but he still finds some to squeeze out and Im sure he does it a few times over night! Husband says he’s the most pig headed dog he’s come across. He’s a lovely boy really but Id really like to sort this out!
 
Personally, if your vet has ruled out any urinary infection or post neutering issue, I would get a qualified behaviourist in to see what is going on. He could actually be the opposite of dominant ( very few dogs are dominant) and could be very insecure. A professional pair of eyes will see what is going on and give you ways to help him.

This is a good place to find a good behaviourist or they may be able to recommend someone close to you. Avoid any trainer that wants you to be 'pack leader; that is not what he needs!


http://www.apbc.org.uk/help/regions
 
Would his behaviour be a result of separation anxiety? Does he have another dog in the same room, or some form of companion, tv/radio sort of thing?
What size is his crate compared to him?
 
I agree, he sounds insecure and a bit confused.
I don't think the early neutering will have helped, IMO that is way too young.

A dominant or confident dog would not be happy sitting in a puddle of his own pee or poo. I used to think my old dog was dominant....he wasn't. Just extremely anxious.
It took someone else and a fresh pair of eyes to point it out.

Telling them off, by and large, makes them sneaky...they go where or when they think you won't see them or be able to get at them. It's too late by then, you need to get them outside before they go.

Was he a farm dog? And out in the yard with you, he just goes where he wants as well? He may just not have got his head around where to go and where not to go.

How much water does he have access to and when is his last feed? What do you feed him?
 
I agree about a behaviourist. fwiw I had a collie that for years people (vets, trainers, my vet bf) told me was dominant. We neutered him early etc etc he had nearly every behavioural problem going (he was a rescue, 4 homes by 12 months) although we got most of them sorted after a fashion. His saving grace was that he was ok with other dogs and a very good hiking/wild camping companion. We didnt have the same problem as you are experiencing though.

When he was 10 I called in a behaviourist for a couple of new issues who said that actually he just wanted to be everybody's bitch-we changed a few things, did quite a lot of new training and had a much happier dog for it.

Your dog may well be dominant but then again, it's worth considering that he might not be.
 
yes definitely worth considering , thanks! Our other bitch sleeps in the room with him, I really don’t think it’s separation anxiety. When he wee’s, he’s not sneaky or submissive about it, he will literally look right at you and cock his leg; he has even been known to cock his leg on me given the chance and if we are in the car - we went off hiking with them both for eg, he stood up in the back of the jeep and weed on the bed with both of them in it. Just a dribble - as I said we always make sure he’s ‘been’ properly before bed etc and Ive not seen him gulping down loads of water. He’s been to training classes and the trainer there is very experienced, although not an actual behaviourist, she thought he was really dominant. Will definitely look into it some more though , Id love to sort it out.
 
Have you had him checked out by a different vet to the one who recommended neutering at ten months? That's what I'd be doing.

Maybe some people have a different idea to what true dominance than others. Hope it gets sorted!
 
I'm currently considering having ours castrated, he's 14 months old and he deffo is dominant - no marking indoors (he did go through a phase, but catching him in the act and lots of "wash and get off" spray stopped that). But he is VERY dominant with other dogs, he will hump any bitch and neutered dogs. Up until recently he hadn't really met entire males, but in the last few weeks he has, and there have been stand-offs and incidents that I do not want becoming ingrained behaviour. So I'm considering the Suprelorin implant, which is basically a testosterone inhibiting implant giving the effect of castration. It lasts 6 months (or longer, I've been told) and my theory is that it will allow us to see what he's like as a neutered dog, without taking the irreversible action of having him physically castrated. That way, if any negative behaviour does ensure, we can have a rethink of how to manage him. Might be something worth considering for you. Good luck!
 
Perhaps put up a camera and record what he's like when you're gone? That way you can definitely rule out separation anxiety. Anxiety in dogs can manifest itself as serious misbehaving, even bare faced 'look what I'm doing' misbehaving because an insecure dog will look for negative attention as much as positive at times. A behaviourist is definitely a good shout, and perhaps buying completely new bedding and changing the area which is his crate is in so perhaps he stops seeing it as his marked place to go. It is rare a dog will be happy to lay in its own mess.
 
Similar experience with my BC bitch - if I give her a bed or blanket she will wee on it, if she manages to get to dacshies bed she will wee on it. Even brand new bedding gets the same treatment, but and here's the weird part she doesn't pee at night when she's on a mattress in my room. Its definitely not separation anxiety because she will wee when I'm stood there. I've given up - she's 14 and not going to change now. Oh- she doesn't wee on the carpet in the house, just blankets or a dog bed!
 
Reading your thorough opening post, I'm really not sure what to think!

It seems to me that some dogs are naturally clean and some, naturally filthy. Working Cockers are often known to be the latter. Mine are always kennelled, and I have a bitch here who will quite happily ***t in her own bed even though she has a run to the front of her kennel. She'll also eat what comes out too, though having now changed her diet and with the bulk of it an air-dried meat, she seems to have stopped that. She can though be out for a full day working, go back in to a clean kennel and go straight to her bed and have a pee.

Some dogs through fear can pee in the house and as a reaction or release. That doesn't sound like yours though! Is it laziness or or is it simply a case that they in some way enjoy the experience? I haven't a clue to be honest with you.

I do think that there are those dogs, often and specifically collies, which acquire a behaviour pattern, and stopping it can be near impossible. Once certain behaviours become established, they can be the very devil to stop. I wouldn't keep a dog in the house which is habitually filthy, and that's the end of it! The idea of cleaning up after a dog, daily and for ten years simply isn't ever going to happen. Over many years, and thankfully, I've only ever once had a dog which wouldn't be house clean. Perhaps I've been lucky, I'm not sure. You have my sympathy.

Alec.
 
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