Bedding conundrum

[Ceifer]

I have my two horses at home. My ridden horse and a non ridden companion pony.

They live out in the summer and come in overnight from start of November until April.

I used to have both of them on miscanthus semi deep litter beds but as costs have gone up the pony went onto straw a couple of years ago.
He has always been fine but this year he has been absolutely disgusting in the stable. Some mornings I have to gut the stable and replace 95% of the bed. No reason I can think of. He doesn’t seem to be box walking but he’s always for England and he mashes it all in. This is annoying but ok as straw is cheap.

Within the last month he’s now started coughing and heaving when he has new bedding added. It’s definitely not from his forage as he has steamed hay.

I can’t think of what to do other than take him off straw but it’s going to cost me a fortune to have him on miscanthus/shavings and being brutally honest i can’t afford to do it. If I keep to having a decent size semi deep litter and he continues to be disgusting I think he’d easily get through 3 bales a week.

I can’t change their routine. I tried to allow him to free roam round the yard at night but it stressed my ridden horse and would be a hazard in freezing weather.

The stables are rubber matted and a friend has suggested giving him a tiny shavings bed to give him somewhere to wee (it wouldn’t be big enough for him to lie down) and use one bale of shavings a week.

Ideas welcomed.

 

[Impu1sion]

I have exactly the same set up as you, and I have one quarter of her rubber matted stable covered in bedding. I use wood pellets underneath shavings, seems to work well.

 

[cauda equina]

I had a filthy pony and did what you're suggesting - 1 bag of shavings for a week then chuck it all out and start again
It wasn't how I like to do things but he survived

 

[meleeka]

I’ve also used minimal bedding. The only issue was the pony was a hairy cob and he used to lay in it all.

Have you tried a bedding like Aubiose? I found that was better as it didn’t move, so much less mixing in.

 

[SantaVera]

Can you make an area for turn out in winter so he doesn't have to be in?

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would try and leave them out in winter as much as possible, I only have just under 3 acres for 2 with a bit of hard standing and mine just come in at night if it's really frozen or torrential rain.

 

[HorseyTee]

Any sawmills near you? Can often get sawdust cheap from them. I found hemp the best for my dirty boy. Are you able to bring in a bit later/turn out earlier so less time spent inside?

 

[holeymoley]

Pellets. You’re outlay will be the same as shavings more or less but they do absorb more and you can just sift the poops out while leaving pretty much the full bed in.

 

[Ceifer]

Thanks for replies.
I have tried leaving them out and my ridden horse won’t. They’re out 8-6pm. Any longer and the ridden horse is stupid and he’s too precious to be messed about with.
The yard I have is enclosed, there’s no way of making an area for the pony without the horse being able to see him.

 

[nutjob]

I would try and leave them out in winter as much as possible, I only have just under 3 acres for 2 with a bit of hard standing and mine just come in at night if it's really frozen or torrential rain.

This is what I do. I used to use mainly wood pellets with a thin layer of shavings on top but the price of pellets has escalated and it's not really a cheap option now.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I would use a pelkets base under shavings. I actually used Megazorb which is paper pellets. However as this is a change in behaviour, I would have a Cushings test. My Draft mare was messy in the stable and tested positive on ACTH test.

 

[Ceifer]

I would use a pelkets base under shavings. I actually used Megazorb which is paper pellets. However as this is a change in behaviour, I would have a Cushings test. My Draft mare was messy in the stable and tested positive on ACTH test.

He does have Cushings and is managed on pergolide

 

[Equi]

Try all-bed fibre 1/4 bed. Super easy to muck out and a bale is large. It’s also vastly less dusty than any shavings I’ve tried.

 

[motherof2beasts!]

Aubiose is expensive to set up but has been great for my disgusting boy. I didn’t use the 8 recommended to start it I used 4 then just take poop out daily (very easy to muck out) I take wet out once a week, it doesn’t spread usually just one spot. Use maybe 1 bale a week or half, was getting through much more in shavings.

 

[rextherobber]

Can't you have them in during the day, and out at night? So in for the minimum time. Agree with motheto2beasts, swap to Aubiose, it's fab

 

[MNMyShiningStars]

I use Aubiouse as well, made sure I made the beds thick enough to start with, and after the first week of the beds settling they've been great. I'm using probably less than half of what I was using in Hunters.

 

[Ceifer]

Can't you have them in during the day, and out at night? So in for the minimum time. Agree with motheto2beasts, swap to Aubiose, it's fab

Nope. Ridden horse won’t do this in winter. They go out overnight April - November

 

[SEL]

I use aubiose and it's ok for my messy one but I do deep litter and I do lower my standards massively.

Can you pop a camera up and see if he's unsettled at night? I couldn't understand why my old gelding was trashing his bed until we realised the rats were using his stable as a rat run overnight.

 

[PurBee]

My 2 have one ’double’ sized stable open 24/7 with a big semi-deep litter (shavings currently) bed in there. Its about 8 inches at the front, rising to 18 inches at the back - compact shavings.
There’s enough room for them both to lay on it as the same time, but most of the time i notice one crashes-out on the bed while the other is stood in the yard infront of the bed-barn snoozing standing-up. They essentially take it in turns to have a full laid-out REM out-of-it deep sleep.
They both have use of a large hard-standing area, where their bed barn is, so spend most of their time out of the barn than in.

My mare pees for england and ireland, and the boy poops anywhere, so theyre not the cleanest horses in a shut-in stable BUT having it open 24/7 means they poop outside mainly, and there’s an area they can pee too - which lessens how ‘mashed-up’ their sleeping bed gets. Its very minimal work every day to take off the poops in the bed barn, most poops are outside.
I use 2 shavings bales every 7-10 days, on average in winter. This is mainly because it rains almost daily here, very heavy downpours lasting 12hrs,, and they will spend a lot of time during downpours in their bed barn. It gets messier the longer theyre both in there sheltering from stormy winds/rains.
In a more usual UK climate they would be out on the yard mostly, and would use their bed-barn for sleeping mainly. They really do prefer to wander around the large yard, and seek their bed shelter when the weather is vile.

I keep topping up the bed layer, for about 3-4 months, and then skip the whole lot out and start again with 6 shavings bags. A big deep dense bed continuously forms, very warm in winter for laying on, it doesnt smell with pine pellets and shavings (other bedding does if deep-littered) it slopes to the front to prevent casting.

When i was taking out pee shavings daily i was filling up 1 barrow daily! Using 3 bales per week at least! It was insane, because shavings dont fully absorb liquid instantly, but packed down deep bedded, they absorb alot more than a loose fluffy bed peed on.

If you have a traditional multi stable with yard, would you be able to pick the largest stable, deep litter the whole lot, stamp it down firm, leave the stable door open 24/7, allow them both free use of the yard for wandering around - hay nets dotted about - and they both use that 1 deep bedded stable for sleeping in, and have another stable with nothing in for them to shelter during vile weather, if they cant both fit into 1 stable when they want to get out of the weather?
You might find, like mine, they’ll use the bed for sleeping, one at a time, and wander the yard when its dry nosing around, and dive into any shelter available when the weather is vile.
Mine can both sleep crashed-out on their bed but i think due to typical herd behaviour, despite herd of just 2! - especially at night, they stick with the principle of while one horse is on the floor crashed-out sleeping, another stands and snoozes to ‘keep watch’ for predators. (I have cam footage)
This way you only have expense for 1 bed, rather than 1 bed each horse.

The only issue you might have is if each horse has ‘claimed’ a particular stable as ’theirs’ - you wouldnt want to use that stable as the shared bed stable, otherwise the other horse might not be allowed in to sleep, and be bullied-off by the stable ‘owner’ horse. Pick a neutral stable for the bed stable.
If you have wooden partition between stables, consider taking 1 out to create a double stable with large bed. It’s easier for 14hh+ equines to share a double stable than single.

The above only applies if you do have a yard area directly off the stable door that you can fence securely and have them wander freely on the yard. I understand some stable arrangements, this is impossible to do. But if you have just your 2 on a small yard, i’d give them the yard as extra space, and maintain just 1 big deep bed.
It’s worked out much cheaper for mine, and easier work, as most poops are not stomped into the bed, they’re on the yard to easily pick-up.

When i was using miscanthus i found it less absorbant than shavings and same cost per bale - but shavings bales were bigger. I tried deep littering that but it smelt of pee. Shavings are incredible for neutralising pee smell, or any pine produce, pellets etc. I prefer pellets under shavings, that was the best, for absorbing pee at the bottom of the deep bed. Pellets have been 680 per tonne rather than 300 per tonne the past year, so i’ve just stuck with shavings and the deep bed still works well.

The system i use is a lot less bedding cost, lot less mucking-out work, and provides a really nice deep warm bed for them to fully crash-out comfortably on, ensuring they get REM sleep. They’re also a lot calmer on the yard overnight having more roaming space and open shelter, than being in a rush to get out of the stable of a morning.

 

[ecb89]

Another recommendation for aubiose

 

[BMA2]

With a mucky box water I did a thick patch in the middle and a sprinkle round the edge...on decent mats.

And thin outside would be replaced regular and the old once de-pooed tended to become the thick middle patch.

Chucking a whole bale.in was wasted so it was steadily added as a clean sprinkle.

 

[BMA2]

I removed wet daily

 

[Ceifer]

@PurBee I appreciate you taking the time to write such a long response. Unfortunately I can’t change their dynamic to do this. The ridden horse was gelded 3 years ago but still has stallion tendencies. They go out next to each other in the field and are stabled next to each other but they can’t be together.

Part of the reason I have them at home is to manage both of their needs. I looked at lots of liveries before moving to the area and most wouldn’t accommodate my ridden horses needs turnout wise - not being near mares, having neighbours but the right type of horse.
In his previous home he had little turnout at a pro’s yard. Since I’ve had him I’ve had to get him used to staying out as long as he does - he now loves summers out, the first summer I had him he was very confused and still wanted to come in. Now he’s totally chilled with the routine.

 

[Pollybee]

I do pretty much exactly what Purbee does! My 2 share a 24 by 12 space and I have a bed big enough for them to lie down at the same time.They have a sort of coral area of mud control and stable mats outside and are fenced in but not shut in the stable. I am deep littering as my field is clay so I can’t get my muck heap removed that often but have to wait till the ground is firm enough I use wood pellets as a base and then shavings, adding more pellets occasionally and 2 bales of shavings per week- effectively 1 per horse. The initial outlay is a lot but then it’s quite economical. It should work in a single stable, I think. The base layer takes a bit of time to firm up but it really doesn’t smell at all!

 

[Wishfilly]

Have you looked at/tried the dust extracted straw pellets? I haven't used them but have thought about trying them for my pony who also coughs a lot on straw and isn't the cleanest. Locally they're about half the price of miscanthus, so definitely more affordable, but I don't know how easy they are to do or whether dust extracted actually translates to dust free!

 

[Ratface]

My previous horse (late gelded Arabian stallion) used to pee for Britain. When I got him and discovered this, I changed him to Aubiose. Job done. Lovely solid bed, skipped out poos and set fair. He always wee'd in the same spot. Put some wood pellets down underneath the Aubiose in this area and only needed to take out the Aubiose and pellets once a week. We were stabled at a Dressage Diva's yard and she used to do spot checks. Heaven help you if your horse's bed wasn't immaculate by ten o'clock each morning. We passed inspection every time. We were eventually "encouraged" to leave, He wasn't a Warmblood and apparently "spoilt the look of the place".
I didn't argue.

 

[PurBee]

@PurBee I appreciate you taking the time to write such a long response. Unfortunately I can’t change their dynamic to do this. The ridden horse was gelded 3 years ago but still has stallion tendencies. They go out next to each other in the field and are stabled next to each other but they can’t be together.

Part of the reason I have them at home is to manage both of their needs. I looked at lots of liveries before moving to the area and most wouldn’t accommodate my ridden horses needs turnout wise - not being near mares, having neighbours but the right type of horse.
In his previous home he had little turnout at a pro’s yard. Since I’ve had him I’ve had to get him used to staying out as long as he does - he now loves summers out, the first summer I had him he was very confused and still wanted to come in. Now he’s totally chilled with the routine.

Ah, i did wonder if they both ‘get on’ ok to be loose freely together.

I dont mind giving a detailed reply as it might help others. I went through so many various bedding systems and bedding materials, and settled on 1 big bed for cost/work efficiency, aswell as ideal sleeping format for them. It was an arduous journey getting there though, so i do empathise with bedding threads on here!

If you did a deep bed system for just him, using shavings, the bed becomes really quite dense and compacted, so a messy stomper tends to just create havoc with the top 2 inches, which is easier to scrape off and dump in the barrow. (i use a large snow shovel and a small hand shovel to scrape poop onto the large shovel)
Because the bed is compact there‘s less dust than a loose bed flailing around while they stomp.
You may find the initial deep bed set-up cost expensive, but to maintain it and leave pee to soak beneath, could mean youre using 1 bag every 7-10 days.

I really loved miscanthus because it rots faster on the muck heap than shavings - but they were 12-15kg bags, same cost as shavings 23kg bags, the bed smelt of pee to do deep bed. If i took out wet daily there was loads to remove as its like a fine wood chip so wasnt anywhere near as absorbent. A bag a day was required to top up! There are miscanthus pellets available, which would absorb much better than miscanthus flakes, but not available in Ireland. You may find them in the uk.

Straw can attract mould growth, especially in damper winter months, so has propensity to induce coughing. Pine bedding products are naturally anti-mould due to the pine oil in the wood, so although some bags may seem to have dust with the flakes, mine dont cough with shavings, and they really do have their heads in the bed when sleeping. With the miscanthus there was coughing, but the supply here was terrible quality, stored outside, growing visible mould pink and black colour, so i was forced to switch to shavings, but glad of it in the end.

 

[PurBee]

My previous horse (late gelded Arabian stallion) used to pee for Britain. When I got him and discovered this, I changed him to Aubiose. Job done. Lovely solid bed, skipped out poos and set fair. He always wee'd in the same spot. Put some wood pellets down underneath the Aubiose in this area and only needed to take out the Aubiose and pellets once a week. We were stabled at a Dressage Diva's yard and she used to do spot checks. Heaven help you if your horse's bed wasn't immaculate by ten o'clock each morning. We passed inspection every time. We were eventually "encouraged" to leave, He wasn't a Warmblood and apparently "spoilt the look of the place".
I didn't argue.

“Spoilt the look of the place”!!
You really should write a book of your tales ratface “The Journeys of an Arabian Horse Woman” is one i’d love to read!

 

[ycbm]

Have you looked at the spongy EVA mats? What you're describing is the one time I'd consider the minimal bed option. I'd want the 40mm+ thick ones, and they aren't cheap, and there's no doubt that unless your drainage is perfect minimal bed systems smell.

 

[Squeak]

I admit to not having tried aubiose but I've found straw pellets really good for a messy horse. You have to give them a week or so to settle and make a proper base so that the bedding doesn't go everywhere when they walk over it. Then I take out the poo everyday and the wet when it shows through. It shouldn't be dusty - sometimes in summer when it was really dry and hot and the horses were only in it a couple of hours a day it did but I just damped it down with water and it was ok.