Bedding/litter woes

Casey76

Casey76

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Last year I switched my mare from straw (which is included in my livery fee) to wood pellets, as she would eat her bed all the time, down to nothing each night.

As I'm on full livery, the pellets just aren't working. Apart from the cost, I just can't keep the bed as clean as I'd like it, and it is always wet, apart from when I put new pellets down.

I don't know if it is because of the box (non-draining concrete base), but I go through horrendous amounts of pellets (e.g. due to a misunderstanding I had to put a full new bed down 6 weeks ago - that was 16x15kg bags - since then it has had another 12x15kg bags in it and it is still a stinking sodden brown mess.

If my pony didn't drag her hay throughout the bed it would look a lot better, but it wastes so much bedding having to rake all the hay off.

Because I'm the only one on the yard with a different bedding I have a storage issue. I was thinking about switching to ordinary shavings, and I could perhaps keep 1 bale at the yard - or I could try straw again.

So if I do switch to shavings, is there anything I need to do apart from chuck them down? how many standard 20kg bales would you use to start a bed in an 9x7 box?
 
Is there any possibility that your stable is leaking? I use half what you use, and have a deep, dry bed except for the area of my stable that leaks.When you add a new bag are you putting the pellets in wet or dry?
 
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Nope. No leaks. My stable backs onto the farm workshop on one wall, other stables along the two other walls. The barn/stables are new two years ago.

(photo taken when the straw bed was taken up lat summer, before I put the pellets down)
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The driest part of the stable is actually underneath the drinker as Tartine stales and defecates on the other side of the box.
 
It seems odd that she wastes her hay by dragging it into the bed yet eats straw if that is her bedding, I have a greedy pony mare bedded on straw that is so much cleaner if I give her a pile of straw to munch on as well as her hay, that way she doesn't eat half her bed but is kept happy by having something to nibble on all night with less calories than hay.
 
I would lay a thick bed of wood pellets with straw on top. I find this works really well as it stays clean but is still aesthetically pleasing
 
Normal bed maintenance goes something like:

Yard manager skips out twice a day, I skip out any muck I see when I'm at the yard. On a weekend the wettest bedding is dug out and the rest of the bed is moved around to fill in the hole. Every other week I'll put a bag of dry pellets in the dug out hole, and then put three bags of wet/fluffed pellets across the top of the bed to top up and dress it.

I've tried to manage this so many different ways... used all fluffed pellets, a mix of fluffed and dry; a layer of dry with fluffed on top; but no matter what I do it takes only a couple of days from it looking perfect to looking like a swamp.
 
samlf said:
I would lay a thick bed of wood pellets with straw on top. I find this works really well as it stays clean but is still aesthetically pleasing
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I would try this, I use some pellets under different bedding (compressed down) the only thing to be aware of is that they expand up into the other bed a bit. I put one 10 kg bag as a base in the wet spot every week - and only take wet out at weekends. I also tend to find all pellets fluffed but left to dry again for a bit before I put them down works.
 
I used wood pellets for years but had a rubber mat base. Once the bed was established I only used dry pellets to top it up. I do think you need to get a stable base, so didn't dig out all the wet but allowed it to compact, put half a bag of dry pellets initially round the edges to soak up some moisture before gradually bringing the bedding into those areas that were starting to need topping up. I found them very easy to use and very economical. Just changed to straw pellets as they are a bit more garden friendly, I seem to be using more of them but still monitoring the situation. I used Liverpool wood pellets.
 
i had the same trouble with woodpellets - tried every which way, couldn't get a decent bed going at all, was putting loads in everyday just to keep the horses off the concrete (and this was with tidy little mares in fair-sized boxes) All in all a very expensive massive fail.

We now use chopped miscanthus and all is well again. Aubiose works even better but we have supply problems at times where we are.
 
Have you thought of using cardboard? I was using straw in my stables but it was just so wet & time consuming so I tried cardboard & it's so much easier! It's really absorbent (soaks wee up immediately) & doesn't move around as much (& mine is all different colours depending on the boxes they use - looks better than plain brown)!! It's little cardboard squares & I use no more than 2 bales a week (& I like a really deep bed)! A friend of mine also mixed it with shavings which worked well - more absorbent but still that nice shavings bed look!
 
So the oonly dry pellets you add are one bag every other week, and otherwise you add activated pellets. I think that you are doing this for asthetic purposes, and you like the look of a light coloured, fluffy bed. You may be happier with wood shavings then. In the winter , when the atmosphere s damp, I only add dry pellets, roughly a bag a week. The bed is dry and deep, but not as light coloured and clean looking as a shavings bed.Wood pellets save me a lot of money and I accept that the bed does not look as nice as a shavings bed. My horse would be happy to lie down on the earth, so he does not mind.
 
Thanks all.

I don't know of anywhere that sells bedding other than shavings or pellets - and the pellets are very new. I could use auboise, except it is 20€ a bale :o

Just for illustration:

This was my very first bed - 11 bags

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Over night I could see that my mare had dug down to the concrete in several places, and the bed just wasn't stable at all (no pun intended!) and she was scrabbling to get up after lying down.

So, I put another 10 bags in and after a couple of days it looked like:

IMG_0801.jpg


2 weeks ago I put 10 bags in, 6 dry and 4 activated, with the the dry pellets in the wet patch and around the edges. and it looked like a brand new bed. It has been picked twice a day since, plus had most of the wet taken out at least once a week.

When I got to the yard tonight I was greeted with:
IMG_1795.jpg


She has really taken offence to the haylage which is been given on an evening, and I have no idea how much bed I'm going to have left once all of the haylage is scraped out
 
I use Five Star Professional wood pellets on rubber mats.

When you first put a brand new bed down it is very fluffy and does move around a lot. One the horse has peed on it a few times it should start to pack down and settle. I only dig out the wet that comes to the surface.

I tend to use between 2 - 3 10kg bags per stable pet week in winter. One is usually put in dry and the other(s) have a small amount of water added to get them to break down slightly
Could the hay/haylage be put in something like a haybar/trug/container to stop her dragging it all through the bed?

You might get on OK with a base of wood pellets with shavings on top but this won't solve the problem of her dragging her haylage through it and making a mess.
 
I have a snowballs chance of getting the haylage contained. The stable is too small for a hay bar or other container. I occasionally get a haynet if YM has time, but if it is the YO doing hay it is just a pile on the floor.
 
Maybe she starts to eat the hay and then somethng attracts her attention so she walks to the door dropping haylage as she goes. Could you re arrange the stable so she eats from a haynet by the door or a pile in the corner the same side as the door.
 
be positive said:
It seems odd that she wastes her hay by dragging it into the bed yet eats straw if that is her bedding, I have a greedy pony mare bedded on straw that is so much cleaner if I give her a pile of straw to munch on as well as her hay, that way she doesn't eat half her bed but is kept happy by having something to nibble on all night with less calories than hay.
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Actually my boy is exactly the same, devours his hay and a straw bed, yet on pellets ive actually seen him paw his hay and drag it into his bed, once the pellet dust gets into it he just won't eat it and there is tons of mess in the morning, for this reason I've had to start netting it (which reminds me, I have to clean out my hay hutch to go in his stable instead!)

Op I have found similar issues this winter, I used 10 bags, (normally ample) I would normally not even need to add a new bag until a good few weeks, but actually was starting to struggle after three weeks, the floor started to look damp throughout the stable and I was chucking out a barrow and a half of wet I suspect I would have been adding a good 4-5 bags a week if I hadn't changed my approach. Firstly, I contained his hay so he can't pull it through his bed wasting hay and bedding. Secondly I kept the pellets but added in shavings. I skip out both the poo and the wet daily, and rake and mix the bed before re-laying, but I've found it far, far more manageable to add one bag of pellets at the weekend, mix these into the bed, rake his bed and then lay 1/2 a bag of shavings on top, this method gives a lovely fluffy dry bed and I'm skipping out 2/3-1 barrow daily.
 
You could try a hay hutch to stop some of the mess with the hay or use a net ( it might be the best thing ).
What's the issue with the horse eating the straw ?
If she's not in very hard work or thin might it be the lesser of the evils .
I do think straw is the best choice with a really messy horses, there's no way I would cope with being met with the mess in the after photo each morning.
I do feel your pain last winter Tatts went through over a bale a day of shavings a day it cost a fortune I am hunting him out of the field this winter.
 
Thanks everyone. The problem is compounded at the moment as she just really doesn't like the haylage. Most of the time she is fairly neat with her hay, even if it is on the floor.

If I start insisting on a haynet I'm going to be seen as being difficult as she is maintaining weight nicely at the moment (though still a bit on the high side). I also can't really insist that the wet is taken out every day either, as the other boxes are only bottomed once a week.
 
Is there bedding under where the haylage is? Is it where she can see out?

Looking at your stable I would be tempted to try a square bed in it so that the strip between haylage and manger is clear of bedding. And if necessary expand it a little closer to the door if it isn't big enough for her.
 
There is no bedding in the first 2-3 feet of the box. What ever gets walked forward is brushed back every day.

I don't know if I should look at rubber mats (eva mats not allowed in France), but there is no drainage in the box and I'm concerned about smells (I'd have a full bed on top of the matting, the matting would really be to cushion the feet in the "bare" part at the front of the box)
 
Casey76 said:
I have a snowballs chance of getting the haylage contained. The stable is too small for a hay bar or other container. I occasionally get a haynet if YM has time, but if it is the YO doing hay it is just a pile on the floor.
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Invest in a garden rake and rake off the hay in the bed every day; if you swing the rake from side to side it collects the hay but leaves the pellets behind so you don't take out much bedding with it, besides, a quick shake up of the discarded hay will drop any pellets through which you can sweep back into the bed. Don't ask me why, but if left in the bed, it will turn into a stodgy mess, it seems to hold moisture and clump it up which means a wetter bed than normal. I also feed hay/haylage from the ground; put in the corner on a clean bit of floor, not on the bed and don't have any problems unless I give too much by mistake and they are full.
 
Casey76 said:
The stable is 3 x 2,75m. They hay goes in the corner opposite the door, which is underneath the manger which is why there is no space for a hay bar.
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How big is your mare as 10ft x 9ft is quite a small box for something that's not under 14.2? If she's over that then no amount of different bedding or management of it will change things because she won't have enough room to have a spare muck or wee place without trashing it as she moves about plus it will get compacted more which increases the spread of wet.

I'd definitely look at rubber matting, it's halved my bedding bill and you can rest easy that she won't hurt herself scrabbling on the concrete. If push comes to shove you could even just give her a bale of shavings in the middle which would be much quicker to muck out; I had to resort to that with a very wet mare once; because the shavings were in the middle, she wet and poo'd around the edges so that could be swept out easily and she still had a bed to lie on.
 
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Queenbee said:
Actually my boy is exactly the same, devours his hay and a straw bed, yet on pellets ive actually seen him paw his hay and drag it into his bed, once the pellet dust gets into it he just won't eat it and there is tons of mess in the morning, for this reason I've had to start netting it (which reminds me, I have to clean out my hay hutch to go in his stable instead!)

Op I have found similar issues this winter, I used 10 bags, (normally ample) I would normally not even need to add a new bag until a good few weeks, but actually was starting to struggle after three weeks, the floor started to look damp throughout the stable and I was chucking out a barrow and a half of wet I suspect I would have been adding a good 4-5 bags a week if I hadn't changed my approach. Firstly, I contained his hay so he can't pull it through his bed wasting hay and bedding. Secondly I kept the pellets but added in shavings. I skip out both the poo and the wet daily, and rake and mix the bed before re-laying, but I've found it far, far more manageable to add one bag of pellets at the weekend, mix these into the bed, rake his bed and then lay 1/2 a bag of shavings on top, this method gives a lovely fluffy dry bed and I'm skipping out 2/3-1 barrow daily.
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This *^ but I have even more shavings
I put neat pellets where she wee's and a few mixed with mostly shavings. I'm lucky though she poo's in one corner
Also echo box seems really small so will always be. Mess.
 
I would give her forage that she will eat, it is not just a problem regards her bed bur if she is not eating it then she will be at increased risk from ulcers, if she is eating she is less likely to be stressing and box walking. I would also move to a bigger stable if possible-how big is your mare?
 
Tartine is 13.3

Believe me when I say that our boxes are big for my experience in France. My last box was only 2 x 2.5m :o

I cant change the forage issue. I have to use what the farm provides. For some reason the YO is giving haylage on an evening (could be because he has extra this year due to selling most of his cows recently), and has been doing for about a week. I do top up with hay on an evening if there is any around.
 
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