BEF FUTURITY CHAMPS

TEDDY102

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I was wondering if anyone can explain to me how the championship will actually work, are we just showing them off or are the judges there going to say what they think of each of them,

sorry i think i have just got my self very confused.
 

volatis

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i'm a little confused too, as it seems they are just being judged in hand, rather like a normal showing class. The 3yos wont be shown loose nor loose jumping, which is a shame as I would think the best to judge a 3yo show jumper is by seeing it jump. Neither the eventers nor show jumpers will be shown in canter obviously whoch is the most important gait.

I'm not sure it will be worth the cost and time to go down there with the filly, although we might just go and watch
 

Anastasia

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If they are just in hand, how on earth are they going to be able to tell the potential of the horses in front of them? If you have a handler that is not so good at running out a horse then its a shame for the horse if they are not at least shown in loose movement.

Also will the judges have the score sheets from each evaluation or are they going on what they see in front of them?
 

Ciss

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There was a general *demand* from 2007 participants that there be a final this year and that the judges be riders and that the event be associated with one in which other riders (potential purchasers) might hopefully find it interesting and convenient to come and watch. The organisers have done this by attaching it to the BD YH and B champs and have also ensured as many animals as possible qualify to meet people's *demand* for a final.

Becuase of this, and becuaSe it was also *demanded* by people wanting finals that the judges be riders, the judges themselves are obviously not trained evaluators and therefore do not tend to come from a culture where indivudual critiques or scores are given as each animal is assessed. Indeed they probably have not judged these sort of discipline based youngstock classes ever in their lives before as they do not exist anywhere else in this form!

The need to have 4 sets of classes covering the 4 age ranges also led to a considerable time requirement and as such it was decided that loose schooling (which was after all only introduced for ALL animals this year) and the loose jumping for 3 yr old eventers and showjumpers would not be possible. However, as it was thought that this might well produce criticisms that the vital factor of athleticism (including paces in canter and loose jumping where reqired) were not being addressed it was agreed -- as I emphasised in another post -- that ALL the judges would be provided with the athleticism scores and comments (which of course includes an assessent of canter and jump where appropriate) of ALL the horses and ponies before them. They can then use this to fill in the gaps of information that they would have if they were judged in the normal Futurity way. They will also be accompanied by an experienced Futuirty evaluator specialising in the dscipline concerned who will advise the judge about the key criteria used to assess the horses/ponies during the qualifiers should the judge wish for guidance on this.

The organisers and volunteers have worked very hard to try to meet all the problems and extra work load that meeting the *demand* for a final has created for the Futurity system, so why not give the system a chance and take part rather than condeming it right away?

After all you have to be in it to win it and surely that would be better than wondering what would have happended if ...
 

Anastasia

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Thank you Ciss for your explanation. I am certainly not condeming anything but just wondered how the Final would be assessed.

I would love to attend but as I said in my report on our Futurity because of other committments we will not be able to attend (and that is only if our foal is still in the top four..
grin.gif
).

Addington alas is also 11 hours for us in a lorry, so dont want to travel an "in foal" mare that length of time and then do the same within a day or so, which I am sure you will understand.

Had the dam not been in foal and we did not have something else on that day then we would have been down to support the Futurity for sure.

We are hoping that those that have "hopefully" qualified (depending on Catherston results) will be coming down from the Scottish Futurity.
smile.gif
 

volatis

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As its not my horse, nor my money, and as we have mares being graded the day before and 2 days afterwards, I have no idea if I will take Portia. I'm not one of the 'demanders' who obviously wanted a championship so badly, so although it would be nice to fly the flag for the poor old and much disparaged Trakehner
smile.gif
it's not her main aim for the season.
I will definatly try and get down to watch and I think its great to have people of Yogi and Carl's calibre as judges, especially in terms of profile for the event.

I can totally understand from a time viewpoint not having horse loose but just expressing my opinion that it is a shame they cant be judged that way. It's the first year there has been a championship run this way and I am sure it will continue to evolve.

We'll just have to see what the boss says when she gets back from holiday
 

TEDDY102

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So will the horses that go the championships be placed on what the rider thinks of the horse or will all placings remain the same as the futurity qualifiers?

For instance if my horse was currently fourth in her section after Catherston, will she remain fourth whether or not she goes to the champs.

Sorry im just trying to evaluate whether or not i personally warrant going to the champs
 

CrazyMare

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From what I understood they will be shown afresh? So if the judge prefers one pony they can place them as they please, weather or not they were the highest or lowest qualifying score?

Its about 2 hours for us, my mare isn't back in foal and a really easy run down to Addington so we will be going. Its probably my only chance to take part in something like this so I'll take the oppertunity while I have it.
 

Greymares

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Am I right in thinking the prize fund is already decided on the existing evaluation scores? If so then what is the purpose of the final? It seems a lot of expense in fuel,time stabling etc just to go and get another rosette or am I missing the point somewhere.
Considereing the final is less than a week away there seems to be a distinct lack of communication as to what it is all about.
 

Ciss

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[ QUOTE ]
So will the horses that go the championships be placed on what the rider thinks of the horse or will all placings remain the same as the futurity qualifiers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Shown afresh as Crazymare says.

[ QUOTE ]
For instance if my horse was currently fourth in her section after Catherston, will she remain fourth whether or not she goes to the champs.

[/ QUOTE ]

The evaluation scores remain completely unaffected by any results achieved in the Finals as it is basically a different competition and obviously does not have the same standardised scoring system. Futurity premium prize money/awards will be decided on the rankings immediately after Catherston (ie ca 28 August), Finals placings and prize money will be entirely separate and decided on the day of the Finals (ie 31 August). OTOH, if you are ranked 4th after Catherston it does not necessarily mean that you will stay 4th in your group / class at the Finals should you decidee to enter becuase the judge there may have a different preference even bearing in mind that they have the athlecticism mark to hand. So you could go up or down there, but that is the case with any event like this.

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry im just trying to evaluate whether or not i personally warrant going to the champs

[/ QUOTE ]

Well your ranking won't be affected but publci exposure of your animal to a wider audience of potential buyers could well be a good marketing strategy and the possibility of extra prize money might be an incentive worth considering too. Bascially it is a no risk situation as afar as yoru Futuirty score/premium is concerned so hopefully that will encourage you to have a go :)
 

CrazyMare

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A question Dad has just posed to me - as this is a fresh show rather than an evaluation, are we looking to be in whites or tweeds, shirt, tie and trousers?

I'm not fussed either way, but I like to be prepared!
 

Greymares

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OK so now I have read the info on the website and see we have to pay £25 to enter each qualified horse!!! Plus £35 for a stable!!
What is the prize money?
Usually when there is an entry fee quoted you know what the prize money is going to be when you enter.Can you give us a clue please Ciss?
 

Ciss

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Don't know about the prize money amounts, you will have to ask Jan directly. However, before grumbling too much do remember that putting on a normal Futurity evaluation at a reasonably priced venue (say £600 per day) costs at least ca £2500 each as this has to include vets fees, full paramedic support and travel costs for evaluators (poor old stewards, writers , trainee evaluators and all other volunteers etc have to pay their own costs). Once all this has been paid then all the rest of the entry money (apart from that already spent on advertising, rosettes etc) goes into the prize fund and whilst we do have to be attendant vets fees for the final Addington hire costs at least 2.5 times as much as the other venues used, especially at weekend rates. As you will be aware, Addington was chosen becuase it will hopefully attract the sort of audience of potential buyers that only such a venue can, but all this comes at a price and that is why entry for the Finals is an extra £25. OTOH, I know of very few dedicated (separate) finals where entries are free to qualified finalists (certainly not in competitive disciplines anyway) so there is nothing unusual or money grubbing about this.

When a final was demanded, it was agreed that the Futurity premiums should not suffer so Jan is probably still working the exact sums out depending upon (amongst other things) how many entries there are /will be on the day so I would imagine that the more support it gets the better the prize money will be which also seems pretty fair to me.

BTW, as anyone who uses Addington will tell you, £35 is the cost that Addington charges for stable hire so the Futurity is making nothing out of it -- and stable hire is not compulsory anyway. In fact, as the Futurity is employing its own stable manager (becuase of the specific requirements of the sort of participants there will be) it will actually be making a loss on the stabling hire whatever happens, but again this will not be allowed to affect the prize money eventually being offered.

HTH -- but as I say, why not ask Jan as she may have a cleaer idea of the projected figures.
 

Springs

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If you have got the chance to go you should. It will be a great opportunity to get you horse seen by thoes that count. If we had a youngster in this year we would have gone for the above reason alone.

The Futurity is developing and each year it goes from strength to strength. There is a need to link the top horeses that come through the futurity to the performance side of the BEF and this may go some way in plugging that gap.

Don't miss out!
 
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