Behaviour change since neutering

B

Belmont

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 May 2023
Messages
158
Visit site
In January we got our 18month old retriever x collie castrated. Although a rescue at 6 months old, he is super friendly, loves everything and everyone and a little too confident sometimes! So I had no worries about having him done.
However, ever since, he has started to growl at other dogs he doesn't know. It started just as he was sharing a space with them, still wanting to say hello and then growling when they were nose to nose but nothing more. Today he growled at a passing dog, about 6ft away, so it's getting worse. He has also started growling at a couple of dogs loose in a neighboring garden - their dogs yap and yap, my two used to just ignore but now he's lunging and growling at them.
When he first did it, I contacted the rescue charity, as we were promised lifetime support and advice but unfortunately I was ignored. I spoke to the vets and they asked sensible questions like, are his hackles up, to which I said I don't know as he's long coated and I've been pulling him away as soon as I hear a growl. I then spoke to our dog trainer as he goes to class once a week, and they just advised to monitor it, but ofcourse he doesn't do it in class as he knows all the dogs, so I think the trainer thinks I'm making it up :rolleyes:
I've never had a reactive dog before and I'm really stumped as to how to handle it.
 
Belmont said:
In January we got our 18month old retriever x collie castrated. Although a rescue at 6 months old, he is super friendly, loves everything and everyone and a little too confident sometimes! So I had no worries about having him done.
However, ever since, he has started to growl at other dogs he doesn't know. It started just as he was sharing a space with them, still wanting to say hello and then growling when they were nose to nose but nothing more. Today he growled at a passing dog, about 6ft away, so it's getting worse. He has also started growling at a couple of dogs loose in a neighboring garden - their dogs yap and yap, my two used to just ignore but now he's lunging and growling at them.
When he first did it, I contacted the rescue charity, as we were promised lifetime support and advice but unfortunately I was ignored. I spoke to the vets and they asked sensible questions like, are his hackles up, to which I said I don't know as he's long coated and I've been pulling him away as soon as I hear a growl. I then spoke to our dog trainer as he goes to class once a week, and they just advised to monitor it, but ofcourse he doesn't do it in class as he knows all the dogs, so I think the trainer thinks I'm making it up :rolleyes:
I've never had a reactive dog before and I'm really stumped as to how to handle it.
Click to expand...
Might have nothing to do with castrating and everything to do with him becoming a teenager and starting to feel a bit macho. I would keep everything normal, don’t keep away from dogs unless you are worried that he would be scared of them and hopefully he will regain his confidence in time.
 
The neutering may have had an impact or it may be coincidental and this is just who he has matured to be. The constant yapping from next door may have made him crack also (boundary frustration).
Even with a long coat, you should still be able to see hackles, with some dogs they go right along the back to the base of the tail if they're so aroused.

If it were me as a trainer I would want to go out with you on a walk as it's really hard to judge without seeing it in person, we had a person come along a few weeks back with a collie x rescue and in no way was the dog aggressive, it was just a dog who was frustrated/triggered by movement as a lot of collies are, and just needed something to break the fixation and then a reward for looking back and checking in with the owner. The important things for me are: look at the dog and intervene when the body language is getting going, once the dog has reacted then it is too late....have words or actions for 'no, that's not what I want' and 'yes, that is what I want'....the dog must know the difference between a tight leash and a slack one. It is really had to communicate with the dog when the leash is always tight and the dog is evading contact. If he is foody, use his food out on walks as a reward for checking in. Also see what his comfortable distance is between him and another dog and go from there and try and build it up.
 
It can happen. The sudden drop in testosterone lowers their confidence and can lead to more anxious/fear-based behaviour (I'm very pro-neutering by the way, it's just one of those things). But he is young and you can hopefully re-build his confidence in a positive way. I've owned a few reactive dogs and while I'm no dog trainer (and I'd definitely enlist the help of one) the general approach I take is:

As a handler stay relaxed at all times, it's easy to worry when you see a dog approaching and tighten the lead etc. but you're just feeding into their anxiety and tension. Keep a slack lead and distract them if you can, I usually step off the path to give them space, give the "look at me" command and reward with a high-value treat. Over time you do want them to acknowledge the other dog, so when they look over at the dog calmly immediately reward with a "good" and high-value treat. (You can train the 'look at me' command at home, using a clicker or just a target word).

Try to avoid any negative experiences with other dogs. I actually never let my dogs interact with strange dogs regardless of how good they are as I know one bad altercation can mean I have a reactive dog for the rest of its life. My goal is that we can have a solid recall and wait calmly for a dog to pass us then carry on with our walk. My dogs socialise with dogs that we know who they have been introduced to carefully and play with them, but never random dogs we meet on walks. If we are approached by a strange dog out walking I will always put myself between my dogs and the other dog, they know they don't need to react as I will protect their space for them.

As above, never allow dogs to meet on the lead, it's a very unnatural way for them to greet each other and puts tension into the interaction from the get go. The 2-dogs straining on their leads to 'say hello' is my worst nightmare and can blow up into a scuffle in seconds as they can't read body language or give themselves space when they need it. If I'm introducing to new dogs we go for a walk with both dogs on-lead and distracted by their surroundings, once they are calm enough to ignore each other on a walk then I let them walk together off lead. It should all be a 'non event' with no fixating from either dog on the other one.

None of my collies have ever been enthusiastically social dogs and preferred their own space, but they could happily and confidently tolerate other dogs out and about without reacting and that is all I asked really.
 
I’m pretty sure neutering one of ours caused his issues to become worse, he was very dog aggressive and I think this made it worse, due to what @KikiDee says. I think many vets these days have stopped recommending neutering as a matter of course.
 
I have a reactive bitch. I've made great progress by keeping myself between her and other dogs, where possible and keeping her at a comfortable distance, gradually reducing as she grew more confident.

How long ago was the castration? Could he still be uncomfortable or feeling out of sorts? If so, may be temporary and I'd avoid other dogs until he feels better.
 
FieldOrnaments said:
Can you film it in one of the situations it's become 'normal' e.g neighbors dogs to show the trainer?
Click to expand...
I will try to but I always have 2 dogs, so may be a bit challenging alone!
meleeka said:
How long ago was the castration? Could he still be uncomfortable or feeling out of sorts? If so, may be temporary and I'd avoid other dogs until he feels better.
Click to expand...
End of january, so just over 8 weeks ago now and all healed well without issue.
 
KikiDee said:
As a handler stay relaxed at all times, it's easy to worry when you see a dog approaching and tighten the lead etc. but you're just feeding into their anxiety and tension. Keep a slack lead and distract them if you can, I usually step off the path to give them space, give the "look at me" command and reward with a high-value treat. Over time you do want them to acknowledge the other dog, so when they look over at the dog calmly immediately reward with a "good" and high-value treat. (You can train the 'look at me' command at home, using a clicker or just a target word).

Try to avoid any negative experiences with other dogs. I actually never let my dogs interact with strange dogs regardless of how good they are as I know one bad altercation can mean I have a reactive dog for the rest of its life. My goal is that we can have a solid recall and wait calmly for a dog to pass us then carry on with our walk. My dogs socialise with dogs that we know who they have been introduced to carefully and play with them, but never random dogs we meet on walks. If we are approached by a strange dog out walking I will always put myself between my dogs and the other dog, they know they don't need to react as I will protect their space for them.

As above, never allow dogs to meet on the lead, it's a very unnatural way for them to greet each other and puts tension into the interaction from the get go. The 2-dogs straining on their leads to 'say hello' is my worst nightmare and can blow up into a scuffle in seconds as they can't read body language or give themselves space when they need it. If I'm introducing to new dogs we go for a walk with both dogs on-lead and distracted by their surroundings, once they are calm enough to ignore each other on a walk then I let them walk together off lead. It should all be a 'non event' with no fixating from either dog on the other one.
Click to expand...
Thank you, all very helpful advice. I do tighten the lead, as he usually wants to launch at the other dog to say hi (all friendly until it isn't!) so will have to be mindful not to do that. He is quite good at the 'look' command. I actually had a deaf growly Staffie run up to us at the weekend and did my best to block it getting to my two, and thankfully he didn't growl at all then. So may be we are improving... small steps. Thanks for the advice.
 
I was very luckily recommended by a friend to try the injection for 6 months and I think it's made ours more reactive to other dogs so we're waiting for it to wear off and see if he reverts back to being better again. We did also unfortunately have an incident with a friends dog so it could be that for ours.
 
Squeak said:
I was very luckily recommended by a friend to try the injection for 6 months and I think it's made ours more reactive to other dogs so we're waiting for it to wear off and see if he reverts back to being better again. We did also unfortunately have an incident with a friends dog so it could be that for ours.
Click to expand...
Was he already slightly reactive? Or of a nervous disposition?
Ours has always been super friendly and playful so didn't see an issue at all!
 
I know you're probably not interested in what I have to say, but 12-18 and even up to 24 months is generally when the personality of the dog you have, begins to truly show itself. A combination of genetics and early experiences, but genetics dictates how a dog responds to stressful experiences.
We as humans cannot predict what a dog will find stressful, but a dog with good nerves will bounce back a lot faster/seem unbothered compared to a dog with thinner nerves.
It's hard to say whether neutering has made it worse, and it's done now, unfortunately.
 
CorvusCorax said:
I know you're probably not interested in what I have to say, but 12-18 and even up to 24 months is generally when the personality of the dog you have, begins to truly show itself. A combination of genetics and early experiences, but genetics dictates how a dog responds to stressful experiences.
We as humans cannot predict what a dog will find stressful, but a dog with good nerves will bounce back a lot faster/seem unbothered compared to a dog with thinner nerves.
It's hard to say whether neutering has made it worse, and it's done now, unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Thank you, he was never remotely nervous before hand, very much overly confident and super friendly, which is why I had no concerns. We intentionally left him until at least 18 months old due to his physical development. Surprised genetics is more to blame for responses rather than experiences, I read something this morning that said the contrary.

I have been 'blocking' him when faced with other dogs and that seems to be helping (had a deaf offlead staffie approach us the other day, who I know is aggressive, but blocking seemed to diffuse the situation). I did let him meet a friend's submissive lab girl, and there was a lot of noise from him but nothing more. So maybe he's just become noisy and I've misread it as aggression. I'll see how we go over the next few weeks.
 
Belmont said:
Thank you, he was never remotely nervous before hand, very much overly confident and super friendly, which is why I had no concerns. We intentionally left him until at least 18 months old due to his physical development. Surprised genetics is more to blame for responses rather than experiences, I read something this morning that said the contrary.

I have been 'blocking' him when faced with other dogs and that seems to be helping (had a deaf offlead staffie approach us the other day, who I know is aggressive, but blocking seemed to diffuse the situation). I did let him meet a friend's submissive lab girl, and there was a lot of noise from him but nothing more. So maybe he's just become noisy and I've misread it as aggression. I'll see how we go over the next few weeks.
Click to expand...

I won't bore you with how many dogs I've encountered for me to come to the conclusion that genetics is the biggest influence on behaviour, then experience/handling. Injury/pain is also a big influence. As before, it's largely genetics which dictate how a dog responds to stress. Some dogs can have fifty dogs bounce in their face every day and not care, another dog, happening once can destroy their confidence for life, because they're not genetically/mentally equipped to cope with that.

As I said, if he's part collie he could be triggered by movement and being restricted is causing frustration which can look like aggression, but it's hard to say without seeing him.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top