Behavioural problems due to feed??

JanetGeorge

JanetGeorge

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I've sold a dead quiet, laidback 10 year old gelding (ID xTBxPercheron mare) to Scotland and he was a bit of an idiot when he first arrived. It was a big move for him and I thought he'd settle down in a few days after the journey. But he's got worse - I wonder if something feed related could be a problem - or if he left his brain in England. I feel SO bad for the owner.

If he doesn't settle, I'll have him back - but that's another LONG trip - so any ideas very welcome. i've asked her for full details of any feed and suggested she speak to her vet about mild sedation for a day or two. But feel rather helpless.
 
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Could be anything and horses can take weeks/months to settle. Feed, environment, owners who think they are better than they are, busy yard, quiet yard, not liking his neighbours, etc etc. the list is endless. Can you get them to take a video of him and what they are doing with him for you to look at? And in what way is he not settling, spooky in the field, stable, handling.
 
The only feed sensitivity I've had experience of is with alfalfa- livery yard put my horse on it without telling me. My usually sooky horse didn't want to be groomed, rugged etc and literally threw himself on the ground when I lunged him- he got bargy on the ground too which was really unlike him. Still, he was 5, so thought he was maybe being a 5yo but when we spent one hack at warp speed-mostly going backwards when we weren't capriolling - I asked the staff if anything had changed in the last few days. He was back to himself within 48 hours of being off the dengie. It would be worth her taking him off all hard feed to see if there was any improvement.
 
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I know one horse who canot cope with alfalfa .
But I have have seen some biazzre behaviour over the years when horses change home .
 
One of my new horses took two years to settle and then became a 'Horse of a Lifetime'.
I would say that when I took my horses on holidays it never effected them but maybe that was when I went with them - a bit like competitive horses that travel the world.
i.e if they loose their friends, owner and surroundings maybe it blows some of their minds.
 
My horse become like a spooky rocket on Alfa A, he lost his manners on the ground and acted like an idiot under saddle. Once it was removed from his diet he slowly returned to normal.
In defence of what if a good feed for the right horses, Alfa A was the only thing my elderly mare ate with gusto, kept her going for years!!
 
I'm another one whose loving, well mannered boy turned into a bargy, opinionated git after being on Alfa a for a few days. He was also incredibly stressed when I moved yards - box walking, neighing incessantly (when I'd never heard him neigh once in the previous eight years, refusing to eat and hardly pooing. After two weeks of this, I tried him on horse first relax me supplement and he was much better within 24 hours. That might be worth a try.
 
Speedi beet turned my normally easy going chap into a bit of a monster. Alfalfa has no effect on him, so he is fed healthy tummy in the winter.
How long was he with you for? It could well be that with him being older it will take him longer to settle than it would a youngster?
Can she just chuck him out in the field for a few weeks with some chilled out friends and see if he settles?
 
I bred him - so he'd been with me 10 years. That's a long time and it's possible that was enough to make him silly to start with - but knowing his breeding and how laidback he has always been, it shouldn't have taken more than a few days - and he shouldn't have got worse. My home-breds are usually sold younger (4 or 5) and only 2 have taken a few days to settle. The rest just moved in to their new homes and were good from day 1. The stallion he is by was SO laidback it was unbelievable. And his mother I had from just backed - at 3. She was very laidback too - and very food dominated! Her only naughtiness was refusing to load for my husband at the end of a day's hunting - if I was there she walked straight on.

This was him at backing:
lofty%20012.JPG


Or - kicking up a stink:
lofty-buck.jpg


NOT the sort of horse you expect to be a prima donna!
 
My normally sane WB had a personality change when I moved yards. If I'd just bought him I might have sent him back! I did not like him one bit!

Obviously he was upset at moving but contributing factors were, YO ignored me and gave him molassed mix and haylage instead of a low cal fibre feed that I'd asked her to plus soaked hay. He also went out with a mare to whom he became obsessed with. He was in an indoor barn with railings between each box. He hated this and was stressed and aggressive to those next to him.

He got better by changing feed, separating him from the mare but really he wasn't happy until I moved again after a year and all those problems stopped.
 
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JanetGeorge said:
I've sold a dead quiet, laidback 10 year old gelding (ID xTBxPercheron mare) to Scotland and he was a bit of an idiot when he first arrived. It was a big move for him and I thought he'd settle down in a few days after the journey. But he's got worse - I wonder if something feed related could be a problem - or if he left his brain in England. I feel SO bad for the owner.

If he doesn't settle, I'll have him back - but that's another LONG trip - so any ideas very welcome. i've asked her for full details of any feed and suggested she speak to her vet about mild sedation for a day or two. But feel rather helpless.
Click to expand...
I found a few things that blew my boys head off or caused behaviour problems

garlic
happyhoof
speedy/sugarbeet


have you tried a calmer
 
HGA-12 said:
I found a few things that blew my boys head off or caused behaviour problems

garlic
happyhoof
speedy/sugarbeet


have you tried a calmer
Click to expand...

Have advised the owner to speak to her vet about a short-term calmer - to see if that gives him time to settle - perhaps low rate Sedalin - or bromide. Obviously I'd take him back if he continues to be a nightmare, but ....
 
JanetGeorge said:
Have advised the owner to speak to her vet about a short-term calmer - to see if that gives him time to settle - perhaps low rate Sedalin - or bromide. Obviously I'd take him back if he continues to be a nightmare, but ....
Click to expand...

Be careful with bromide. He would need a pretty hefty dose given his weight and it is an irritant to the stomach so can cause colic. Can cause filled legs too.
 
Just to ditto what others have said really - and to offer support! I've known horses go loopy on alfafa and on sugar beet (I've got the most laid back cob who will become an utter nut on speedibeet!) I currently have an ISH who is barley and sugar sensitive. And I've known horses who would fizz up on haylage. There is also another thread running at the moment about turmeric affecting behaviour.

On the other hand - you are the only home he has known. The move alone could easily be enough to cause problems. Poor him - poor you and poor family. I hope it works out!
 
That's worth knowing - as I'm about to start a loony 3 year old (SERIOUSLY nervous for NO reason!) on it! His problem is so severe it's worth a risk - but a small one.

We might have the answer on the big boy - he's been on moderate quantity of Good Doer chaff. "a blend of alfalfa and quality soft straw, lightly coated with molasses and spearmint oil". He'd never had alfalfa - or molasses in his life. So owner is cutting it right out and we'll HOPE that's the answer! He's also been getting the NAF General Purpose Supplement for Horses - can't see anything in that that's KNOWN to cause problems.
 
My mare turned into a nightmare after moving to a livery yard. I thought it was other horses making her hormonal and the sudden change - she's a nervous sort anyway. Took me a while to twig that it was the grass type. I moved her and my gelding again, but this yard is owned by the same person so the grass is essentially the same. Both ex farmland (sheep and cattle). I have to restrict her all year round or she becomes a panicky lunatic. When she constantly escaped whilst I was away in August (energizer woes) I came back after 4 days to something I couldn't even brush because she was scared of everything. Took 2 weeks to get her right (treated her as a laminitic). I can't ride her when she's had too much grass (normal grass and not too much even for my EMS prone gelding) as she's girthy, kicking out and reluctant to go. I found out last time by having a free flying lesson, so she's permanently on haylage balancer and separated from my boy when he needs more. Most people on my yard have to restrict their grazing and I think the sheep went over a decade ago!
 
I know everything is about ulcers these days, but......... I wonder whether the move to a new yard and owners can cause sufficient stress to a horse to cause inflammation in the gut. I'd make sure there is no sugar in the feed and then add some pre and pro biotic and linseed to coat the inflamed tissues.
 
Echo the alfa a, can make some nutty and or itchy.
I would cut out the suppliment for a while too. I know top spec balancer has sent some loopy so why not a supplement with essentially the same ingredients
 
Im not sure suggesting drugging or sedating is the answer- if someone suggested that to me I might think he was drugged at sellers yard. I think just give him time......
 
if hes been on the same approx feed for 10 years i think feed could well be the culprit at least partially.

we have one horse of ours who cannot tolerate a sniff of barley, maize,peas,seaweed,rice bran.....but is ok on a certain amount of alfalfa,oats,and a small amount of mollasses.

the 3yo cannot tolerate mollasses or a high % of alfalfa and when we changed feed was literally like a changed horse in days,went from being virtually electrically charged and impossible to get a step of sense out of to a much more mellow,relaxed chap.
 
I had problems with my tb on unmolassed sugarbeet at some yards but not all.

I suspect that because beet is fairly rich in calcium, the forage in the area was also high and this was causing a problem. At another yard (different forage) and supplementing magnesium he was fine. Alfalfa is also high in calcium.

These days I get the forage tested whereever I am and have found that calcium does tend to be very high round here.

My point is that even if a feed is fine in one place, it may not be in another.
 
Over the years we have had a few odd feed problems.
The mare who was intolerant of cereal and refined sugar was fine on alfalfa,
The two current Appy's cannot cope with alfalfa AT ALL! The older one stood rocking on the road, could not ride her through it at all, the younger one became ridiculous to bring in. This was the small amount they got in treats! Neither of them can have carrotts either. We don't feed any compound anythings these days, having used pink powder with disastrous consequences for all four of ours. I do wonder if some of the intolerance has been sparked by the stress of moving. I have worked with people who have had extreem reactions to food (one was psychotic if she had caffine, another ate razor blades until her intolerances were sorted), both of their problems appear to have been sparked by insults to the body (General anesthetics when children) I see no reason why stress wouldn't make that worse.
 
Following this thread as I suspect one of mine may have an alfa intolerance. I have only owned him 4 weeks and he has gradually become more spooky (not terrible) and nervous. He was on Dengie molasses free but today I have changed him onto Thunderbrooks chaff and Dengie Leisure Vits & Mins which does not contain anything cereal based. He is a lovely boy and the spookiness doesn't actually bother me, I just want him to be a bit happier in himself.

Can anyone recommend any treats that don't contain Alfa? I was using Baileys Fibre Plus nuggets but just looked at the ingredients and they contain Alfa......... :(
 
Its also worth asking if the horse is being fed haylage as that can send horses scatty sometimes. Hopefully the chaff is the answer though
 
Hetsmum said:
Following this thread as I suspect one of mine may have an alfa intolerance. I have only owned him 4 weeks and he has gradually become more spooky (not terrible) and nervous. He was on Dengie molasses free but today I have changed him onto Thunderbrooks chaff and Dengie Leisure Vits & Mins which does not contain anything cereal based. He is a lovely boy and the spookiness doesn't actually bother me, I just want him to be a bit happier in himself.

Can anyone recommend any treats that don't contain Alfa? I was using Baileys Fibre Plus nuggets but just looked at the ingredients and they contain Alfa......... :(
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I have ditched all horse treats and am using sugar free mints for the Appy's. This has been the case for the last month or so and I am watching carefully for any problems :) (none as yet)
 
treats - red rufus/agrobs ones, purefeeds treats I also think equimins ones don't have alfalfa in either. All molasses free too.
 
chestnut cob said:
Don't feed treats! Just give him little pieces of carrot or apple if you must treat at all.
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I'd rather feed those I mentioned than carrots/apples. I use them for his stretches (need to keep a 22yo flexible ;) )! And for reinforcement during some in hand work in the school.
 
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