Behavioural?

N

Noogle

Member
Joined
7 April 2022
Messages
11
Visit site
Hi all, feeling a bit stuck with what to do. Bought a new horse back in may and let’s just say it has not been an easy journey. Started off with being extremely mareish (to the point of being aggressive), which was solved by regumate. Then started encountering problems with a lot of bucking. She had always been very funny about being groomed, especially over her back/stomach, and was always very upset when you put leg on her.
Everyone around me said that she almost definitely had ulcers, and vet decided to scope her for ulcers and x-ray her back for kissing spine. Nothing. Am now at a bit of a standstill, at competitions/going anywhere new she is completely fine (which we assumed was adrenaline masking the pain), but at home it’s like a watching a rodeo. The only way to get her stop is to point her at a jump or pull her up.
Does anyone have any experiences with anything like this? Is it pain related? Behavioural?
 
What breed is she and how old?
Do you know from her previous owners which vets they used? I would start by seeing if I could find her veterinary history as that could flag something.
One possible thing I can think of is does she have a companion pony or horse? As when I first bought my mare she was also quite mare-ish and even now she does get stressed out when there aren't other horses, but she's been loads better since I bought her a companion
 
HannahB said:
What breed is she and how old?
Do you know from her previous owners which vets they used? I would start by seeing if I could find her veterinary history as that could flag something.
One possible thing I can think of is does she have a companion pony or horse? As when I first bought my mare she was also quite mare-ish and even now she does get stressed out when there aren't other horses, but she's been loads better since I bought her a companion
Click to expand...

She’s a 10yr old ish (mostly tb). She is in a field on her own but there are horses in the field next to hers.
 
Noogle said:
She’s a 10yr old ish (mostly tb). She is in a field on her own but there are horses in the field next to hers.
Click to expand...

Is it possible to try her with a companion in her field? Possibly she's missing company and it's compiling in to the difficult behaviour and like Hannah B's mare you might find it helps?
 
I personally don’t understand the term” just behaviour” To me, all behaviour has a cause- it’s a matter of finding out the cause…….
If I’m missing the point then please can someone explain????

I do hope you get to the root of the problem and also agree that it would be worth treating for hind gut ulcers given the symptoms.
 
Wizpop said:
I personally don’t understand the term” just behaviour” To me, all behaviour has a cause- it’s a matter of finding out the cause…….
If I’m missing the point then please can someone explain????

I do hope you get to the root of the problem and also agree that it would be worth treating for hind gut ulcers given the symptoms.
Click to expand...

‘Behavioural’ as in a behavioural issue/personality, rather than a source of pain that has presented itself as a behaviour i.e bucking due bad saddle fit.
 
Some horses don't cope with individual turnout so I would change that it can cause some to be very unsettled.

If you have had all the general checks of teeth, back and saddle I would be tempted to send her to big equine hospital and do a lack of performance work up.
 
Tbs are notoriously insecure, it could just be behavioural if all avenues for pain have been exhausted. I would get some aloe vera juice, start her on 100ml per day for the first month. My tb used to have really bad behaviour, the only thing that stopped it was a regular routine. You cant even be slightly nervous round a tb they smell your fear and will play on it.
I would do some groundwork with her, regular, same things every day and then introduce new things gradually ? it is worth a try
 
has she seen a bodyworker? Any problem areas found?
Worth having an experienced lameness vet have a look at the horse
Also how are the feet? My horse has a whole host of problems stemming from NPA in the front feet
 
I'd get your vet to do a full workup including scan of ovaries. Leaving ovaries aside- there can sometimes be a link between hock pain, back pain, (and NPA as another poster has mentioned) ulcers so it's definitely worth talking to your vet.
 
Would advise having ovaries scanned if she's having what seem to be hormone driven issues combined with what sounds like a pain response. If you're finding that your own vets are reluctant to do a full workup / aren't sure where to start may be worth seeing if Tom Beech comes into your area (or someone else similar who will have a holistic look at the whole horse able to do osteo stuff) as might find things to release from an osteopath POV but may also be able to guide where you should go next with any imaging / further Investigations. (If you've got a trusted physio/ bodyworker may be worth getting their POV initially with vet permission as they can identify areas of tightness/ patterns of tension & again this might help steer you towards a particular area)
 
You know how you read all those FB posts about how amazing mares are? They are not, they are a pain in the backside and I say this as someone who owns two, sold one this year and rides another. They are very sensitive and like princesses and the pea.
I have one who is horrendous as home and fine away from home. Personally I would do the following:

1) work the horse a lot harder and then see if behaviour improves at home. stick her up some hills and then try the day after.
2) bute trial for 2 weeks. See if behaviour improves.
3) look at hocks/suspensorys

I do think mares are more likely to be just behaviour …. They learn much quicker than geldings and they also learn to train their rider very quickly.
 
LEC said:
You know how you read all those FB posts about how amazing mares are? They are not, they are a pain in the backside and I say this as someone who owns two, sold one this year and rides another. They are very sensitive and like princesses and the pea.
I have one who is horrendous as home and fine away from home. Personally I would do the following:

1) work the horse a lot harder and then see if behaviour improves at home. stick her up some hills and then try the day after.
2) bute trial for 2 weeks. See if behaviour improves.
3) look at hocks/suspensorys

I do think mares are more likely to be just behaviour …. They learn much quicker than geldings and they also learn to train their rider very quickly.
Click to expand...
I don't agree at all. I think mares are just more likely to tell you if there's a problem.
Dangerous advice to suggest working her harder when we haven't seen the horse.
Hardly any investigations have been done. OP please rule out pain first. Hocks/suspensorys would be an obvious starting point.
 
Loads of good advice on here...

Having ruled out ulcers and kissing spines if this was me I think I would look at the ovaries next. If they are clear then a full lameness / body work up - even if she doesn't look obviously lame there still might be something going on and she is compensating.

A few mentioned a companion for her - this for me would be essential. None of my horses (and they are geldings) have ever coped well being alone - even with horses in the field next door.

Good luck!
 
Bellaboo18 said:
Dangerous advice to suggest working her harder when we haven't seen the horse.
Click to expand...

I think everyone is crediting the OP with enough intelligence to know when to stop. If (and yes it is a big if) the problem does stem from insecurity or lack of work, it's not going to be uncovered by vet investigations, so surely it makes sense to rule those things out first, relatively quickly. Piling in and changing lots of things at once isn't helpful, because even if it fixes the problem, you may never be sure which one worked.

Scoping for ulcers and doing kissing spine X rays are not cheap to do so the OP is clearly willing to do things properly.

All that said, I would also be wondering about ovaries next.
 
Widgeon said:
I think everyone is crediting the OP with enough intelligence to know when to stop. If (and yes it is a big if) the problem does stem from insecurity or lack of work, it's not going to be uncovered by vet investigations, so surely it makes sense to rule those things out first, relatively quickly. Piling in and changing lots of things at once isn't helpful, because even if it fixes the problem, you may never be sure which one worked.

Scoping for ulcers and doing kissing spine X rays are not cheap to do so the OP is clearly willing to do things properly.

All that said, I would also be wondering about ovaries next.
Click to expand...
To be fair the problem has been going on since May. I think alot of damage can be done pushing through pain.
 
If Tom Beech does clinics local to you i would recommend him.
i was told by multiple professionals my horse was naughty and needed a beating. I knew it was not naughty behaviour and she was trying to tell me she was sore.
bucking , kicking , vertical rearing, ears flat back when leg pressure was applied.
Found a few issues - hock arthritis and ulcers with the vet.
Tom beech found lots of secondary issues to those and it wasnt until i saw him and had a rehab plan and osteo sessions that she really improved and i havent had any of those behaviours since.

i most definitely agree that mares are more likely to tell you if there is a problem!

edited to add - moving to 24hr herd turnout from individual daily turnout also changed my horses whole demeanour. So relaxed and no more seperation anxiety anymore.
Something to consider if at all available in your area
 
Last edited:
Although I totally agree that you need to consider pain as causing the issue, my own experience is that some horses, especially when they have changed homes and have new owners can show some unwanted behaviour that is not pain related. Have you tried riding her at home in an arena but with company to see if she's showing separation anxiety. If she's fine out at competitions I'd suspect that is what could be causing the problem. I've also had the odd horse that once he had settled in started to push the boundaries and just needed a firm response to any silliness to remind him of his manners or a quick lunge to take the edge off.
 
The companion thing is a tricky one, being placed in the same field as another mare is what brought on her initial bout of mareishness. She was completely unmanageable, wouldn’t let anyone get in the field with her and would kick out at you, even on regumate. The only thing that solved it was separating them. Also saw similar behaviours shown from her when she was stabled with others for a week in the summer.
 
Noogle said:
The companion thing is a tricky one, being placed in the same field as another mare is what brought on her initial bout of mareishness. She was completely unmanageable, wouldn’t let anyone get in the field with her and would kick out at you, even on regumate. The only thing that solved it was separating them. Also saw similar behaviours shown from her when she was stabled with others for a week in the summer.
Click to expand...
I too prefer my boy to be separated but to be honest he likes to see company but not be near, he is really grumpy with another horse in the field, I would hate either horses to be injured.
 
TBH that does sound like separation anxiety and putting her in with another horse would probably lead to her becoming more distressed if you take one of them away. tbh I have found it difficult to sort and I sold the horse I had who really struggled to a big pro yard where he always had horses around him but couldn't form an attachment to just one other. I hope others can make some suggestions.
 
Noogle said:
The companion thing is a tricky one, being placed in the same field as another mare is what brought on her initial bout of mareishness. She was completely unmanageable, wouldn’t let anyone get in the field with her and would kick out at you, even on regumate. The only thing that solved it was separating them. Also saw similar behaviours shown from her when she was stabled with others for a week in the summer.
Click to expand...
It sounds like keeping her by herself has only solved one part of the problem though. It won't solve what sounds like chronic stress brought on by either having no companionship or only one horse to become completely dependant on (understandable if she hasn't had her social needs met for a long time!) If you can't get her in a herd situation and confident/settled that her friends won't disappear forever, you might always be dealing with some sort of separation anxiety behaviour.

Left field idea, Miri Hackett has videos on her YouTube channel about a mare named Blondie who initially presented with "extreme mareishness" and behavioural problems that was partially solved by regumate but was followed by a PSSM diagnosis. Might be worth looking at to see if the behaviour looks similar.
 
‘Behavioural’ as in a behavioural issue/personality, rather than a source of pain that has presented itself as a behaviour i.e bucking due bad saddle fit.

well, that is my point! “Just behaviour” to me implies that the horse has “just decided” to behave in a certain way because it feels like it. I honestly don’t think that happens.
Behavioural isn’t just about pain- although it’s probably the most common cause- a badly fitting saddle as mentioned above, can cause pain or discomfort. Separation anxiety, environmental changes eg new yard/ owners, can cause behavioural changes no less important than pain. We really need to look carefully and consider possible causes rather than saying it’s “just behavioural”
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top