Being nosey Pammy Hutton kerfuffle

Raging about the feedback. I suspect the candidate knew the rider well - both based at talland. And probably taught considering that familiarity. Examiners don't know background and possibly misinterpreted the manner which would not have been acceptable to someone the candidate didn't know. She says she didn't have an issue with the result just the feedback. It was harsh maybe but for someone at that level I don't think it was awful 🤷‍♀️
I'm not party to anything btw, saw the feedback as she posted it on Facebook!
 
She posted a photo of the feedback provided to a candidate from a BHS teaching exam and slated the assessor for the feedback provided.
The feedback criticized the candidate for giving too much instruction rather than coaching the rider by getting their feedback too. It also criticized the candidate for not picking up on 2 fairly obvious faults to do with rider position/ contact
TBH I’d be pretty gutted to get that feedback too as there was nothing constructive in it. Pammy said the rider feedback was good, they had enjoyed the lesson and felt like they had learnt.
Social Media maybe not the most professional way of dealing with a gripe
 
The feedback was harsh but equally I think exam feedback might be different from CPD/coaching feedback? I worked both as a clinical supervisor and as an external examiner for a University. As a supervisor my feedback was always balanced, constructive and whatever I felt the person was ready to hear. As an examiner I was much more direct and to the point, particularly if I was failing someone, so they understood exactly what they needed to do to improve next time.
 
I've only started following PH recently as a friend has started working with Tallard (in the background) and recommended for school master lessons, but PH really does like a rant doesn't she. And unfortunately seems to be egged on by the likes of Heather Moffet and people with a similar thought process.

Tallard often advertise for guinea pig riders and horses for examination purposes, so seems odd that the rider was familiar to the person giving instruction and being accessed. Maybe a last minute step in, but I think it was probably a bad decision as they would be very familiar with each other so almost preempting the instructions and not correcting the 'friends' seat/balance, likely because it was 'to' familiar to the instructor so not picked up. A bit like a mother teaching their child.
 
If it was an exam, then in an exam presumably you don't get feedback as to how to improve - or at least when I was taking exams of any sort you didn't and it doesn't seem that harsh to me. If it was an assessment from someone preparing for exams (are exams still a thing, or is it all assessments), then you would want to be told more about how to correct what the assessor felt you had let you down, but even so I think someone could pretty much work out what they needed to do, though may need help as to why they couldn't see crookedness or comment on it.

Probably in most exams I took, you wouldn't have been told why you had a pass or a fail other than perhaps the driving exam.

I have done guinea pig sessions for coach training and also BD judge exams and didn't have any connection with anyone involved. Got some very nice chocolates for doing the BD one.
 
She’s always been ridiculous on social media. A few years ago when she had set up her ‘FEI action’ group she had a massive rant about a situation where she was castigating the stewards for not behaving in a certain manner.

Except, the stewards had acted absolutely according to their role and rules. The only person with authority to have dealt with the situation was the judge.

She is, or certainly was at that point, quite a high level judge herself. So as well as having no clue about a stewards’ role she clearly did not understand her own.
 
With absolutely all due respect to Pammy, she is still like, a mid 70's lady posting on FB. Having a few thousand followers doesn't come with media training!

Having now seen the feedback, I would probably be upset to receive it. It was clear, mentioned exactly what was missing, but yeah, could probably have been softened a little. Maybe my mum would have a little FB yap about it on my behalf too 😂 (I know she's not their mum, but you know what I mean)
 
Examiners are told what they need to look for and rate people according to a clear structure. Students should know the structure too. That does mean that a mediocre lesson can pass while a brilliant one that ignores lots of the structure fails but there has to be some sort of scoring criteria and objectivity. And so for all exams there is an element of giving the examiner what they are looking for. And then once qualified being free to develop your own style. An exam proves you have certain skills deemed necessary for the level of qualification. It's not an overall quality rating. I assume PH has thrown her toys out of the pram because she mentors/trains whoever failed and thinks his qualities were overlooked.

Clear feedback also makes appeals less likely. Fluffy nice feedback may feel more comfortable but also leads to confusion as to why they failed, and appeals. Clarity is needed: X, Y, Z was missing/inadequate so this has not passed. End of.
 
dorsetladette said:
I've only started following PH recently as a friend has started working with Tallard (in the background) and recommended for school master lessons, but PH really does like a rant doesn't she. And unfortunately seems to be egged on by the likes of Heather Moffet and people with a similar thought process.

Tallard often advertise for guinea pig riders and horses for examination purposes, so seems odd that the rider was familiar to the person giving instruction and being accessed. Maybe a last minute step in, but I think it was probably a bad decision as they would be very familiar with each other so almost preempting the instructions and not correcting the 'friends' seat/balance, likely because it was 'to' familiar to the instructor so not picked up. A bit like a mother teaching their child.
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I dont think you cant take the exam at the centre you train at, so it shouldnt have been an issue.
 
ramsaybailey said:
I dont reakly understand the issue. Yes it was direct, but also very clear as to why they failed. Seems to give obvious things to work on for next time?
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Honestly, I read it and thought if that was me, Id know that I'd clearly buggered up in a big way and Id know why.

I will say that the feedback does sound like they are a candidate who teaches very much in the style of Talland. Which may be why PH was so upset.
 
Interestingly I noted someone who has taught me commented on the post in agreement, but I had a lesson with her which made me feel exactly the same way (talked 'at' the whole time and absolutely everything wrong picked apart) 😏

I'm swaying a bit on this. Initially thought it was harsh but take the points above about it being an examination not coaching. A bit like your driving test they just tell you what your fail points are.

Perhaps it should have a self-appraisal part (maybe it does already?) where candidates can share a critical reflection of their own performance which gets taken into account. It might be that they had a good reason for not doing something but doesn't mean they hadn't noticed it.
 
SaddlePsych'D said:
Interestingly I noted someone who has taught me commented on the post in agreement, but I had a lesson with her which made me feel exactly the same way (talked 'at' the whole time and absolutely everything wrong picked apart) 😏

I'm swaying a bit on this. Initially thought it was harsh but take the points above about it being an examination not coaching. A bit like your driving test they just tell you what your fail points are.

Perhaps it should have a self-appraisal part (maybe it does already?) where candidates can share a critical reflection of their own performance which gets taken into account. It might be that they had a good reason for not doing something but doesn't mean they hadn't noticed it.
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Certainly at lower levels (up to stage 3) you get a chat with the examiner after about how it went. It's a good chance to "rescue" something that you realise you perhaps didn't get right - if you acknowledge it and address it... (Again though, I can't speak beyond 3)
It read to me like the candidate did what I call direct traffic - ie shoulder in up the long side then travers then half pass across the short diagonal. I don't like teaching that way personally, I prefer to chuck some thinking responsibility at my riders and teach what I see (like crookedness maybe 🤣)
Giving directions is all well and good, riders come away thinking they've done loads but it doesn't develop much.
R
Also I think @I'm Dun said about not training where you do the exam, I think it's only for a number of weeks beforehand and may not be in force at that level as there are so few centres training or examining
 
SEL said:
Just read it and thought it was clear and gave quite a lot of feedback. Unless you're a total snowflake about taking feedback there's nothing wrong with it.
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Me too. I thought (think) that I must be missing some kind of context because the feedback seemed perfectly straightforward and reasonable to me, given that it was an exam.
 
daffy44 said:
I avoid PH on fb as she comes across as unhinged, but I have to thank the OP for the use of the word kerfuffle, I love that word!
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She comes across as completely unhinged, until you look at heather moffetts tin foil hat stuff. She has always been a bit unhinged but seems to have totally lost the plot recently which is pretty sad.
 
It’s also only one section of the results sheet too. For the I/Stage 5, you can only have x amount of training sessions at the centre you’re taking the exam at. Though I know of someone who got round that rule…

As for the post itself, crosses a line on a number of levels. However as someone who has passed parts of that level of exam, it didn’t raise my eyebrows as much as it would had it been a stage 3 or 4 exam tbf. For the 5, you’re teaching two sessions of riders aiming towards and at advanced medium on the flat, and if you’re failing to notice crookedness should you be passing?

@SaddlePsych'D at any level of exam, but especially 3-5 the candidate will discuss what’s gone in the previous 20mins/hour with the assessors whether you’re in riding or coaching assessment.
 
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I'm Dun said:
She comes across as completely unhinged, until you look at heather moffetts tin foil hat stuff. She has always been a bit unhinged but seems to have totally lost the plot recently which is pretty sad.
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100% I also avoid Heather Moffett, she is a whole other level of conspiracy theories level of unhinged, its very sad, I used to follow HM for the riding/training stuff, but its too much off the wall for me now.
 
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