Being Nosy - what did she do ? Gemma Plumley

You are choosing to believe one side as presumably you did not see the alleged incident. Nobody seemed to point out that Mrs Moon & Ms Tinworth could be expected to back up one another given the connection between their families, just as you'd expect Gemma to be backed-up by her aunt.
 
No, reading the first part of the judgement where GP states that she re-mounts the horse to issue a reprimand, is plenty enough for me.
 
On that basis would it be feasible that Mr Tom Hudson was also not stating the truth of what he saw? I agree that everyone is innocent until proved guilty. But Guilty is the verdict. Judges & other officials of the sport are there to do the job. So should we not trust them?
 
At Towerlands one year later friends and I saw a competitor knock down a fence in the 1st round of the Area Trial. It was not a lower pole and was in full view of the judges. They failed to notice it and when it was reported to them they asked the rider concerned. They accepted the word of the rider's husband that she had gone clear, so no I am sorry to say that I do not tcompletely trust them.
 
Then the bottom line is, we are all completely screwed. What chance have we got for gods sake. It makes me want to just give up!
But still, I do have other reasons as to why I feel that the grass root members of the BSJA should not be liable to pay the 50% cost of a trial. I actually think it is time that members started to write in & complain. I will definately be one of the first. Any one else going to support it?
 
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No, reading the first part of the judgement where GP states that she re-mounts the horse to issue a reprimand, is plenty enough for me.

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totally agree, and also the fact that she used the whip on the horse's left shoulder with her right hand to 'keep it straight' is very odd.

and she must have hit it very hard for (in her own words) it to go 'crazy' and just take off with no steering.
 
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Then the bottom line is, we are all completely screwed. What chance have we got for gods sake. It makes me want to just give up!
But still, I do have other reasons as to why I feel that the grass root members of the BSJA should not be liable to pay the 50% cost of a trial. I actually think it is time that members started to write in & complain. I will definately be one of the first. Any one else going to support it?

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Yes, absolutely.
 
I am a BSJA judge, and normally in the judges box, you have one judge who is keeping all the paperwork in order, and you have one judge who is responsible for watching the course and calling the faults. However, there are times that things will get missed, because we are only human. You have to rely on competitors to be honest, at the end of the day, who wants to win unfairly - what's the point? If there is any doubt, you have to give the benefit of the doubt. I would be naive to say that all judges are unbiased, but the one common point made by the collecting ring, and 2 of the 3 judges in the judges box, was that the competitor hit her horse around the head, and also signed the disciplinary slip saying that she had done that. I realise that you must see a lot of things at all of the shows that you are going to, but it never fails to shock me when competitors treat their horses in this way - I will often radio the collecting ring steward to ask them to keep an eye on a competitor after they've had a bad round - you can normally tell which ones it'll be. I've yet to put a disciplinary report about a competitor, although I've warned a few!
 
If she signed to agree that she had commited the offence she deserves all she gets. I read in the report that she had been witnessed on other occaisions hitting the same horse over the head,not just at Towerlands. If she was a jockey she would had been banned. Perhaps she should go on an anger management course!
Any abuse in the ring should be dealt with fimly, I am sick of seeing horses punnished for their riders mistakes, particularly in juniors and at amateur level. The abuse that you see in the warm up can be the worst, with horses being overfaced etc.
It does our sport no favours and must ruin many horses.
 
Do you honestly think Gemma would waste so much time, money and stress on defending her innocence if really she knew she was guilty?? If you want to be angry at someone for the costs of this case, blame the BSJA, they were the ones who drew out this case on zero evidence, contradictary BSJA witness statements even a dead witness. Just because for once, for once (and how refreshing), one member decided to stand up for herself. Gemma was not prepared to accept the untrue, unfounded and vile accusations made against her just because the BSJA instructed her to. She has put her heart and soul into her career and into the welfare of her horses, and anyone who knows her well, has spent any length of time getting to know her for the wonderfully kind person she is, all of these people would no doubt support this statement. Gemma has done wonders for British showjumping, from her wonderfully kind personality, she is always so polite, to the fact she has won no less that 6 european medals for the BSJA, and this is how they repay her? disgraceful, nothing but.

You say Gemma signed her disciplinary slip, which means she must have accepted her fate, accepted the charge. Little do you know, as a 19 year old young girl, she was so intimidated by Tom´s violent outburst at her in his judges box, who refused to tell her what she was signing, when he threw the book at her feet she just wanted to initial and get out of there as quickly as possible. For anyone who may remember Tom, he was a very imposing and sometimes a very rude and aggressive man, someone who it´s quite easy to believe would have been capable of instilling the fear of god into a 19 year old girl. Additionally he made her sign a BLANK slip! which he and his brood of judges filled in after Gemma left! What on earth is that about?!?! There and then it fell off the legal pathway.

Let me tell you where the accusation began. Tinworth, collecting ring steward. Motive? jealousy.

I believe she saw this purely as an opportunity for that little green monster to raise it´s head and stop Gemma´s successful career in it´s tracks. Why would she want to do this? Well what if you had a daughter yourself, who you had dreamed would be able to achieve just a fraction of what someone like Gemma has?? someone who used to compete regular against Gemma, but failed to reach the expectations laid out for her, where as someone else´s daughter did?? Take a look at this article, published in the Daily Mail a few years prior. She clearly states what hopes she has for her daughter.

HEADLINE: A £380,000 sacrifice to keep our girl in the saddle
SUBHEAD: Family who lost their home for daughter's riding ambitions
BYLINE: LAURA CLARK
AS a showjumping fanatic, Natasha Tinworth knows all about hurdles.

But even the toughest of courses offers nothing to compare with the financial and
emotional obstacles her family have overcome to maintain her Olympic ambitions.

They have spent countless thousands of pounds financing her passion, keeping horses
and taking her to shows across Europe.

At their lowest point their business collapsed and they lost their £380,000 seven-bedroom
home. But 17-year-old Natasha's passion survived.

'From the moment she sat on a pony it was as if she'd arrived home,' said her mother
Adrienne, herself an accomplished horsewoman.

'We lost the house because of the costs, but it isn't a problem. We have had so much
pleasure out of her achievements, it is as if we have been paid back 100-fold.' The
attic of their home in Saffron Walden, Essex, is crammed with sackfuls of rosettes
and the shelves of Natasha's bedroom are filled wall-to-wall with trophies.

Last season she made the top five in the Junior Pony Rankings and her next goal is
to qualify for the Great Britain Young Riders team which is named in April, with an
ultimate eye on the Olympics.

Her interest developed when the family circumstances were at their best with her father
Dennis's machine tool business flourishing in the boom years of the 80s.

Mrs Tinworth opened 17 stables and over four years her three children, Natasha, Nicholas,
18 and Natalie, 15, all grew to love the horses and ponies.

But it was Natasha who stood out and, as her proficiency grew and she started to collect
prizes, the expenses began to soar.

The costs, coupled with the impact of a bitter recession on the family firm, plunged
the Tin-worths into bankruptcy.

With just £60 in cash they were forced to move from their home set in five acres in
Braintree, Essex, to the notorious Golding-ham council estate.

'The first few months after bankruptcy were probably the worst in my life,' said Mrs
Tinworth, 42.

'The children had been brought up in really nice surroundings and suddenly found themselves
living in a pigsty � although we were grateful for a roof over our heads.' The ordeal
brought on a nervous breakdown in Mr Tinworth, 45, who was unable to work for six
months.

But Natasha clung on to her hobby, travelling 30 miles before school each morning
to feed and groom the only pony the family was now able to keep.

Eventually, their fortunes began to turn around. Mr Tinworth started to rebuild his
business and one of his new customers was wealthy businessman Peter Ban-nock, a complete
stranger to the showjumping world until he saw Natasha compete, but an immediate convert
who offered to support her.

Her regular trips abroad were making school life more difficult and she eventually
decided to leave at 15 to concentrate on showjumping.

'If she ever needs to do anything, she will go to college,' said her mother. 'But
showjumping is her life. I've never met anyone so dedicated.' Mr Bannock put up the
capital for her horse Gamma's Rolex, which is half thoroughbred and half Connemara.

In 1998 the Tinworths spent £22,000 on keeping Natasha's ponies. The bill for transporting
her 30,000 miles across Europe and show entry fees pushed their outlay beyond £28,000.

This year they estimate the bill will be between £2,000 and £3,000 a month.

'We went through a rocky patch but we've managed to fight our way back,' said Mrs
Tinworth.

'This has been going on so long now it's just a way of life. We have asked her if
this is what she really wants to do � we ask her even now � and she just looks aghast
and says, "Of course it is".

'We have been accused of being pushy parents but Natasha just says, "Oh no, it's me
who pushes them".' Natasha, who rises at 5.30am to feed and groom the horses and is
often out with them till 9pm, said: 'I'm so grateful to mum and dad. I do feel guilty
� if they hadn't been spending so much on me we would never have lost the house.

'I think it sometimes drives them mad.'

What a way to get revenge and ruin her reputation. Just so happens Tinworth is the very person who started the story who was "closest to the alledged incident". Coincidence? I don´t think so. Funny also how one of the judges she called happens to be a relative.. hmmmm.

Take a look at the report.. even the sport´s tribunal agree there were huge discrepancies in the judges statements. One even agreed to not actually having seen anything after she wrote a detailed report, simply because she was told to.. it was word of mouth. Tinworth even alleged to have seen the same incident the day before, only then to admit she hadn´t!! Now you tell me who has the most convincing story!!? Gemma´s and her Aunty´s witness statements did not change, not even in one detail from the outset. Because it was the truth, she CATEGORICALLY did not do it.

And for all you so-called horse experts out there, you should know it is physically impossible to hit a horse across the head 15 times! and for a young girl of Gemma´s slight build, it´s outrageous. Unfortunately, the BSJA conveniently drew the case out so long and only informed Gemma of proceedings, coincidentally just a few days after Towerlands had deleted all CCTV footage, which would have completely cleared her name. How convenient.

I don´t know how this girl can ever want to compete for Britain ever again, I am disgusted at the way our young riders are treated, they seem more concerned with damaging the poor kids reputation, than investing time and money into them as the future of our sport. She is a talented rider, who could go so far, daughter of Debbie Johnsey, formerly number 1 lady rider in the world and 4th individually at the Montreal olympics at just 19, she certainly has the complete pedigree to go all the way. Why are they isolating her, why are they destroying her and not instead fostering her growth??

If that was me, I could never forgive an organisation that devalues everything I may have done for them, clearly ruining my name and that of my globally, well-respected family.

For those of you complaining about member costs, how selfish can you be, when Gemma´s family has to fork out a load of money just to defend an incident that never happened. And to the lady who seems to think the family is more than financially capable of chucking 50,000 down the drain. How on earth do you know that? we are in a recession for goodness sake, just because Gemma comes from a successful family (her GRANDPARENTS) why should this make any difference, why should this make her any more guilty? How do you know Gemma may have had to finance this herself, I know that girl works harder than anyone and is not driving around in flash cars, and has limited horse-power. Otherwise she would have more than likely had 5 olympic horses lined up ! clearly you have a bee in your bonnet about their success and obviously are getting a kick out of the fact the family have had to cough up money to defend their name. Shame on you.

I hope Gemma´s family may find the time to read this, and I wish them all the success in the world, they deserve it. and I truly hope they continue to fight for Gemma´s innocence... good on you girl for sticking up for yourself.

Your fans all stand by you... always.
 
You must be the aunt then. Welcome to the forum.

It just doesn't ring true though does it, that this whole incident is fabricated, what possible gain is there to be had by anyone, particularly when the legal process is in full swing. Would you have us believe that people would perjure themselves out of jealousy ?

There must have been loads of people seeing what went on other than the judges, and the report says they failed to get involved, why would that be if they could support a fellow member in an injustice. ? Did the judges just wake up that morning and think ok lets stuff GP today pulling her name out a hat.

Sorry I admire your loyalty to GP but the evidence and outcome doesn't support her innocence, she was a young girl who lost her temper in the heat of the moment and no doubt regretted her actions but it still happened. That is a far more feasible conclusion.
 
i find it very hard to believe that the reports were totally fabricated and that she did absolutely nothing wrong.
however, it is ridiculous that cctv footage that would have proved things 1 way or the other has gone now though, shame on the bsja for not securing that immediately, imho.
 
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Do you honestly think Gemma would waste so much time, money and stress on defending her innocence if really she knew she was guilty??

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People do it all the time, guilt or not.
 
QR..

Whilst i am not a friend as such of Gemma Plumley - i have competed alongside her for nearly 12 years - we were in juniors together and i saw and spoke to her during these years.
I can quite honestly say i cannot ever recall a time i have seen Gemma beat a horse?
Yes a few taps down the shoulder but havnt we all done this?

Whilst i do find it difficult to believe that the BSJA would fabricate such a story - i just cant see her losing her temper on that scale?
Interestingly she is not the only successful young rider complaining about treatment by the BSJA either.
 
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If you want to be angry at someone for the costs of this case, blame the BSJA, they were the ones who drew out this case on zero evidence, contradictary BSJA witness statements even a dead witness.

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I have no vested interest in this case, however, I was so disgusted at you casually dismissing 'a dead witness' in such an offhand way that I had to post.
If you are planning to try to help GP's public image, might I suggest you get some class and/or basic manners and decency first?
 
LHS,

1. I would be honoured to be Gemma's Aunty, but no I am not. Why do you appear to assume only a family member can support another individual? Gemma is a human being like us all, with rights and I feel it appropriate and fair to defend her.

2. I am glad you raised the point about other witnesses around the shows, you make a good point, but fail to mention why the BSJA, in the delayed 6 months before Gemma even realised she was facing proceedings, also failed to call any other witnesses to comment on the alleged horrific incident which appeared to have taken place. one can assume they were unsuccessful in convincing anyone apart from their own organisation to lie for them. I will also note here that there were 2 other judges in the box that day with TH who failed to produce a statement for them. So after 6 months, plus impending other delays, they failed to call upon any reliable witnesses. I (being nosey) also asked many other members who were competing there that day and no-one remembers anything!! I'm pretty certain I would remember someone hitting a horse across the head 15 times, don't you?? I believe there was an altercation between TH and Gemma's Aunty, who went to talk to him about what Gemma had signed. I think she swore at him... and that was the turning point for little Gem, anything to get back at her by the seems...even hundreds of thousands of pounds tied up in litigation, just to satisfy his ego.

LEGEND:

I am sorry you seem offended by the fact the BSJA were using a witness account of someone who passed away. I also find this pretty disgusting myself. TH lost my respect before he passed on, but thoughts go out to his family of course. Let us remember this isn't about TH, it's about GP, her career and her future.

To ALL:

I have noticed a supporters campaign floating around on various sites under the slogan "FCUK THE BSJA..GEMMA PLUMLEY'S INNOCENT!" They're even designing T-shirts and hoodies..I'm off to order mine for free!

I love it.. the BSJA might just have boosted her ratings!
 
There must have been some incident to provoke such a reaction from the collecting ring steward. It seems strange that no witness has come forward in support of GP.

There are plenty of people who go to any lengths and cost to prove their innocence - Jeffery Archer for instance.

My daughter competes and it cost us a fortune but there is no way I would fabricate such a story out of jealousy against some one.

All I am saying is that any abuse of a horse is totally unacceptable, and it is a sight that is seen too often, mostly from ignorance, both inside and outside the ring. There is a difference between discipline and abuse and usually it is caused by someone losing their temper.

A teenage girl may not have the control that a more experienced rider may have and it is easy to "lose it" for a few seconds, no matter how nice she is or good with her horses.
 
You're quoting a daily mail article as evidence? Oh dear!
grin.gif
 
I presume this is aimed at me.
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For those of you complaining about member costs, how selfish can you be, when Gemma´s family has to fork out a load of money just to defend an incident that never happened. And to the lady who seems to think the family is more than financially capable of chucking 50,000 down the drain. How on earth do you know that? we are in a recession for goodness sake,
A. YES ALL BSJA MEMBERS ARE IN THE SAME RECESSION
just because Gemma comes from a successful family (her GRANDPARENTS) why should this make any difference,
why should this make her any more guilty? How do you know Gemma may have had to finance this herself,
YOU HAVE JUST ADMITTED HER FAMILY HAVE FINANCED IT
I know that girl works harder than anyone and is not driving around in flash cars, and has limited horse-power. Otherwise she would have more than likely had 5 olympic horses lined up ! clearly you have a bee in your bonnet about their success and obviously are getting a kick out of the fact the family have had to cough up money to defend their name. Shame on you.
I DID NOT CLAIM SHE WAS ANY MORE GUILTY. NOR DID I CLAIM THAT SHE WAS EVER GUILTY.
THE ONLY KICK I FEEL IS THAT I, LIKE MANY OTHERS ARE HAVING TO COUGH UP THE OTHER 50% WITHOUT HAVING ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE INCIDENT!
SO SHAME ON YOU FOR NOT UNDERSTANDING THE DIFFERENCE.
PLUS IF SHE COULD HAVE HAD 5 OLYMPIC HORSES (WHICH INCIDENTALLY COULD NOT BE FINANCED WITH A MERE £50,000.00) YOU WOULD APPEAR TO AGREE THAT SHE CAN AFFORD THE COST OF THE CASE!
 
I do not KNOW the Plumley's or the Tinworths but have met the Tinworths via shows. I am astounded that such accusations can be thrown so glibly at people who in my opinion are going about there own business politely and efficiently without interfering with anyone else unless it is needed within, in Mrs Tinworth's case, her job. I was an innocent party in a serious incident at a show that was non BSJA, Mr & Mrs Tinworth became known to me because they dealt with the incident without taking sides they remained calm and professional with all parties on that day and thereafter remaining impartial but friendly for which I have the utmost respect as they were in the minority most other spectators/officials were only too quick to take sides!
 
I have just read through the entire judgment of the Sports Dispute Resolution Panel. My main reaction, without getting into the rights and wrongs of the judgment, is what a triumph for the lawyers! The BSJA costs were £100,000, the SDRP's costs were around £10,000 and goodness knows what Gemma Plumley's costs were.

In the old days, this sort of thing would have been dealt with by a public summons to the judges box, followed by a dressing down and an informal warning over future behaviour. I think the BSJA should be ashamed of themselves for wasting our money on cases like this.
 
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