Being religious & horsey

[Shantara]

Been reading this thread, I'm surprised how good you're all being!

I was once part of a religious thread that lasted over 100 pages...mostly me asking questions which the religious bunch found it hard to answer!

Hard-core Atheist here

 

[FionaM12]

The very nature of science makes it a work in progress and it will never be able to explain everything.

We don't know that. Maybe in time it will explain everything.

Science can be examined, theories are tested and tested again. If they can't be proved, they're just theories. If they can be proved, we can believe them with some confidence.

However, the theory that God exists can't be tested or proved. We're being asked to blindly trust that it's so, in my opinion. For many of us, that just doesn't wash.

 

[tallyho!]

We don't know that. Maybe in time it will explain everything.

Science can be examined, theories are tested and tested again. If they can't be proved, they're just theories. If they can be proved, we can believe them with some confidence.

However, the theory that God exists can't be tested or proved. We're being asked to blindly trust that it's so, in my opinion. For many of us, that just doesn't wash.

I *think* I might have to agree with you... I mean I am not an atheist, nor am I agnostic (thanks for definitions) yet I am a scientist and also believe in God despite not belonging to a specific religious group.

Tbh, most of my brain is trained upon three major life forces:

1) Get up... make coffee... NOW
2) get to work asap
3) Drive past horses ensuring they are the right way up i.e. arse up/face down
4) get home and .... pour sherry.
5) Slumber sweetly in my bed.

Oops, that was five... maths wasn't my strong subject.

Gosh, I'm so feckin' lucky :O

 

[PucciNPoni]

Ah, but I do mean atheist. What makes you think that those who say it don't mean it?

a·the·ist (th-st)n. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

That would be me then

The Theory of Evolution sits far better with me, logically, than Adam and Eve do.


The fence sitter... ag·nos·tic (g-nstk)n.
1.
a. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
b. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.
adj.
1. Relating to or being an agnostic.
2. Doubtful or noncommittal:

If there were a God, any God, why would such dreadful things happen to so many innocent people? I am not doubtful about my non-belief, I am quite certain, in the same way that people are quite certain of their belief.

It matters not a jot to me, I take people as I find them, regardless of creed or colour.

I'm not saying specifically that you don't know the difference. But I sometimes wonder, in general, if people don't know the difference. Atheism sometimes, to me, sounds like something shroud themselves in when they want to be devoid of anything to do with God. But then the very notion that they want to avoid that idealism is an unwitting aknowledgement that there MIGHT be a deity/higher being. Which to me is agnostic.

Or maybe it's just me that's confused

Seriously though, I have heard that many people say "I'm an atheist" and if you question them further, it's not that they are so sure that there is NOTHING out there, but that they can't say for sure that there is or is not, therefore just use the most common title: atheism.

I myself am fairly agnostic. I was raised a catholic. I still have those ideals drilled in to me. However, I don't have proof either way (I believe in evolution and all that but what created all that?).

But one thing I do believe in: my horse!

 

[tallyho!]

One way to determine an agnostic from an atheist is to ask them what happens when you die???

 

[PucciNPoni]

One way to determine an agnostic from an atheist is to ask them what happens when you die???

I'm fairly certain it's either dust or worm food. Or do you mean what happens to the human soul (as opposed to sole ?

Hmmm, this could get too deep for HHO!

 

[tallyho!]

You rot in the earth and make great worm food, end of !!

So what does that make me ??

You are indeed an atheist!!! Hoorah!! I'm sure the worms will appreciate your spent body

 

[sidesaddlegirl]

Tell that to a parent of a child dying of cancer . . . . I wonder what they are learning ??? :-(

I don't know, I'm still learning myself. I guess it's what each person takes from the experience, it's not going to be the same for everyone. My cousin, who is also mormon, lost her 2 year old daughter to leukemia this year and who was also born autistic. They now do all sorts of fund raising and am trying to live life to the fullest in memory of their beautiful little girl who had a very short life. I also lost my cousin a few years back, whom I was very close to and who got me into riding, to Leukemia and that taught me about my life but I still miss her every day and it hurts.

I cannot prove anything but I can only take from the things (good and bad and just plain weird) I have experienced (and things that I do not want to discuss here as they are private and personal) in my 36 years of living.

All I can say is each to their own and it doesn't matter if you believe in god, allah or the tooth fairy or nothing at all, what matters is how we lead our life, the examples we set, how we treat others and at the end of the day, to enjoy our lives and live them to the fullest and experience as much as we can.

That said, it means for us to go out and see to our horses now instead of typing on a computer

 

[tallyho!]

That said, it means for us to go out and see to our horses now instead of typing on a computer

Hugs for your loss ssg. Life does teach us a great many things xx

However, it is 8.30 on a friday night here, and dunno 'bout anyone else, but horse out freezing it's tits off and I'm in front of fire drinking sherry

 

[Shantara]

All I can say is each to their own and it doesn't matter if you believe in god, allah or the tooth fairy or nothing at all, what matters is how we lead our life, the examples we set, how we treat others and at the end of the day, to enjoy our lives and live them to the fullest and experience as much as we can.

So true!
I've been told (by a religious person) that I can't possibly be a nice person, or have any sense of morals and can't think of others feelings That really upset me! You don't need God to be nice
Though clearly (as far as the person who said that to me goes) you aren't automatically nice if you believe in God either!

 

[Enfys]

Oww stop asking deep questions enfys my head is about to pop!!!!!!

BFG style? Whizz pop, whizz bang!

My deepest question at the moment is whether the laundry fairy will come to visit this evening, along with her/his (not sexist me) friend the housework genie?

 

[JFTDWS]

Have we considered atheistic agnosticism, which is what I believe?

Atheists claim there is no god, agnostics claim there is no way of knowing. Atheist agnostics tend to admit there is no way of knowing but choose to believe there is no god. The acknowledgement that there is no way of knowing or proving the existence, or otherwise, of god, is by some definitions enough to brand you an AA rather than a pure atheist.

Interestingly, science doesn't really tackle "why"s - but "how"s - sure the planets move in elliptical orbits because certain natural laws dictate they do, but why the laws dictate that they should move in that manner is less testable scientifically. So you can chose to believe in a higher power - or believe in one of the abstract models, e.g. that the universe can exist in the tems that we perceive it only when the natural laws are as they are now, or the infinitie universe hypothesis.

Even Hawking etc say that their theories do not include a higher power because they don't need a higher power in order to "work". And it is that feeling that I don't see the need of a higher power that incites me to choose not to believe in one.

 

['S'teamed]

I cant get my head around why people "worship" imaginary things?

How can anyone truely believe in a "God"?..and as far as to adhere to a set of "rules"? Who wrote those Rules?

Where is the concrete evidence of existence?

 

[tallyho!]

BFG style? Whizz pop, whizz bang!

My deepest question at the moment is whether the laundry fairy will come to visit this evening, along with her/his (not sexist me) friend the housework genie?

Do they charge a good rate??? Could do with a genie around here for a couple of hours!!!

 

[sidesaddlegirl]

So true!
I've been told (by a religious person) that I can't possibly be a nice person, or have any sense of morals and can't think of others feelings That really upset me! You don't need God to be nice
Though clearly (as far as the person who said that to me goes) you aren't automatically nice if you believe in God either!

Flippin heck! I can't believe someone said that! Yes, I know some people who are "religious" but are most unpleasant! With people like that, you just have to have buckets of patience and a good stiff drink afterwards (or choccy!).

I really should walk the dog but i'm in my jammies and dog doesn't particularly want to go out either in this cold.

Methinks i'm going to enjoy sitting here in the warm and get my OH to make me some hot choccy and enjoy life that way

 

[tallyho!]

I cant get my head around why people "worship" imaginary things?

How can anyone truely believe in a "God"?..and as far as to adhere to a set of "rules"? Who wrote those Rules?

Where is the concrete evidence of existence?

"whizz pop, whizz bang"

*off pops her 'ead.... off she goes to bed*

 

[Shantara]

Flippin heck! I can't believe someone said that! Yes, I know some people who are "religious" but are most unpleasant! With people like that, you just have to have buckets of patience and a good stiff drink afterwards (or choccy!).

I really should walk the dog but i'm in my jammies and dog doesn't particularly want to go out either in this cold.

Methinks i'm going to enjoy sitting here in the warm and get my OH to make me some hot choccy and enjoy life that way

Oh, I've had worse!
I've been told I might as well go and die, since I believe there's no afterlife. That one made no sense, if I don't think there's an afterlife, surely I should try and live this life to the fullest? XD
Someone even came up to me in the street and said "You're a liar, a cheat, a whore, a sinner, a blasphemer and you can only save yourself by coming to Church" How the hell did they know I wasn't a Christian?

I usually just smile and nod XD

I think I'll take the choccy drinking isn't my thing

 

[sidesaddlegirl]

Oh, I've had worse!

Someone even came up to me in the street and said "You're a liar, a cheat, a whore, a sinner, a blasphemer and you can only save yourself by coming to Church" How the hell did they know I wasn't a Christian?

I usually just smile and nod XD

I think I'll take the choccy drinking isn't my thing

Yes, I've been told that too, I just smile and say "thank you for your concern"

Yes, choccy is heaven on earth, I'll be the first to admit that and I DARE anyone to say otherwise, lol!!!!

 

[Ibblebibble]

I reckon religion is a hangover from what early humans believed explained the world around them, nowadays science is busting alot of the myths.

^^^ this!! i have been saying for years that the bible is no different than Aesops fables. I am an aetheist and have been since my 20's. I have lived with jehovah's witnesses and learnt about their faith, I lived and worked with a Hindu family and found some of their ideas fascinating, but looking at different religions is what made me realise that they can't all be correct and convinced me that there is no god of any description.
my children don't believe in god either, they learn about religion in school and i'm happy that they do,i want them to appreciate and respect other peoples views but be able to make up their own minds as to if they believe or not. my daughter asked me if God made everything.. who made God?

 

[FionaM12]

I've been told (by a religious person) that I can't possibly be a nice person, or have any sense of morals and can't think of others feelings

I would argue that that wasn't so much a religious person, as a very stupid, blinkered and arrogant one.

 

[PucciNPoni]

Have we considered atheistic agnosticism, which is what I believe?

Atheists claim there is no god, agnostics claim there is no way of knowing. Atheist agnostics tend to admit there is no way of knowing but choose to believe there is no god. The acknowledgement that there is no way of knowing or proving the existence, or otherwise, of god, is by some definitions enough to brand you an AA rather than a pure atheist.

Interestingly, science doesn't really tackle "why"s - but "how"s - sure the planets move in elliptical orbits because certain natural laws dictate they do, but why the laws dictate that they should move in that manner is less testable scientifically. So you can chose to believe in a higher power - or believe in one of the abstract models, e.g. that the universe can exist in the tems that we perceive it only when the natural laws are as they are now, or the infinitie universe hypothesis.

Even Hawking etc say that their theories do not include a higher power because they don't need a higher power in order to "work". And it is that feeling that I don't see the need of a higher power that incites me to choose not to believe in one.

Yes! Someone who can put in to words what I so clearly failed !

 

[PucciNPoni]

I cant get my head around why people "worship" imaginary things?

How can anyone truely believe in a "God"?..and as far as to adhere to a set of "rules"? Who wrote those Rules?

Where is the concrete evidence of existence?

Okay, now consider this:

Do you believe in god? NO? Why? Because I have never seen Him.

Have you ever seen a million dollars / pounds? No. But do you believe it exists? Yes...


sorry, not meaning to stir anyone up - but just playing devil's advocate (and I'm firmly in the agnostic camp!)

 

[j1ffy]

Mary King is religious and she seems to do pretty well

If you read Bounce by Matthew Syed (about talent vs. hard work) there's a large section on there about how faith has helped many very successful sportsman.

Look at Jonathan Edwards (World record holding, Olympian triple jumper) devote christian still allowed himself to compete Sundays as he figured his God wouldn't have given him the talent and not wanted him to use it.

Jonathan Edwards turned away from religion after he retired - as he said in an interview with the author of Bounce "When you think about it rationally, it does seem incredibly improbable that there is a God. I eventually had to confess to myself that I no longer believed."

One thing is certain, faith is not a simple or absolute thing! Like many others, I don't see any link or mutual exclusion between faith and horse riding.

 

[Shantara]

I would argue that that wasn't so much a religious person, as a very stupid, blinkered and arrogant one.

*rage* just wrote an epic post and accidently clicked the X!!

The basic idea of the post was that those who go to Church and follow Jesus's teachings and try and make themselves better people are utterly lovely, there's lots of them in my village and I get along with all of them.

It's the people who follow the whole Bible to the letter that scare and worry me. Have you ever read the Old Testament?! Some of the quotes...concern me.
God is like a hideous bully. He kills millions of people and animals. Do you know how many Satan kills? 1.
God tests hundreds of people! Yet constantly blames Satan for being the bad one.

Anyway, my point is normal, good, friendly Christians are great and I love them...scary 'hard-core' Christians are scary!

 

[tallyho!]

good point there annielusian... never thought of it that way...

don't worry I'm not going to suddenly sell my soul to the devil or anything...

 

[nikCscott]

Mary King is religious and she seems to do pretty well

If you read Bounce by Matthew Syed (about talent vs. hard work) there's a large section on there about how faith has helped many very successful sportsman.



Jonathan Edwards turned away from religion after he retired - as he said in an interview with the author of Bounce "When you think about it rationally, it does seem incredibly improbable that there is a God. I eventually had to confess to myself that I no longer believed."

One thing is certain, faith is not a simple or absolute thing! Like many others, I don't see any link or mutual exclusion between faith and horse riding.

Ahhh I didn't know that- thank you for the up date. My point was kind of relevant whilst he was competing though.

I know how he feels- I gave up Athletics when i became fat

 

[Onyxia]

I cant get my head around why people "worship" imaginary things?

How can anyone truely believe in a "God"?..and as far as to adhere to a set of "rules"? Who wrote those Rules?

Where is the concrete evidence of existence?

You are really missing the point. It is a question of FAITH as explained here :

faith
   [feyth] Show IPA
noun
1.
confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2.
belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3.
belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4.
belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5.
a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.

 

[Onyxia]

It's the people who follow the whole Bible to the letter that scare and worry me. Have you ever read the Old Testament?! Some of the quotes...concern me.
God is like a hideous bully. He kills millions of people and animals. Do you know how many Satan kills? 1.
God tests hundreds of people! Yet constantly blames Satan for being the bad one.

Has any victor ever treated the loser well? The devil revolted and lost, **** happens.

Look up Arnold vs Gabriel Byrne "Choir Boy" on you tube, some naughty words but a very funny scene from End of days (naughty words so not linking lest the wrath of TFC find me ).

Anyway, my point is normal, good, friendly Christians are great and I love them...scary 'hard-core' Christians are scary!

The same could and should be said of any true hard core group. Just look at how quickly some agnostics and atheists get nasty to religious people!
Allready wonkey_donkey and 'S'teamed have decided to be rude- the religious people on this thread have not once said their point of non belife is not valid, yet they have both decided to tell religious people faith in God is stupid

IME, most people of faith are happy to discuss their faith if asked, will explain their thinking on the subjec and walk away happy at a good debate.
Most of the agnostics and atheists get very angry if their "logic" is not bent to within 5 seconds- each to their own, but they are every bit as weird as a christian that won't accept some people thinking the bible is little more then a not very good read LOL!

Nice people are nice people,whatever they belive Diversity FTW

 

[Shantara]

The same could and should be said of any true hard core group. Just look at how quickly some agnostics and atheists get nasty to religious people!

Nice people are nice people,whatever they belive Diversity FTW

Totally agree
Even most 'hardcore' horse riders are scary hehe!