Being Sued!!!!

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vcblack

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I am looking for advice as I really don't know where I stand legally. My 2 horses were at livery until recently. The youngest a 5yr old TBx apparently kicked someone who also keeps their horse at the same livery. My horses were standing either side of the field gate as the people walked through and the young TB x kicked out. We were told about it and apologised and nothing else seemed to happen. The lady in question had no injuries and continued to care for her horse as normal. A few days later I witnessed them going after my horses with a long stick, waving it in their faces and chasing them off. When confronted that said it was for protection but she went after the old connemara first who has never put a foot wrong. She walked in their field chased them away from their hay and walked out. As you can imagine I was not happy and knowing I would not be able to watch them 24 hrs a day removed my horses. Now 10 days later I am being sued as the lady now has a bad back and I have a dangerous horse!! Both horses belong to my 13 yr old daughter who handles them daily and I would not keep a dangerous horse for my child. From what I know of these people, neither work and I believe she is already claiming for a bad back. Does she have a leg to stand on. It happened at livery, who is responsible, I'm really worried as I do not have 3rd party liability and I have 1 very upset 13 yr old. It all smells of a scam as I've seen her riding and pushing a barrow since the kick and its a no win no fee claim!! I think as they were told off by the livery owner there are bad feelings which has brought on this claim but don't know what to do. HELP!!!!
 
I would gather as much evidence as you can of her pushing borrows, mucking out, what ever. Take pictures of her working around her horse, without letting her know, It is getting to be such a sad state of affairs now, every one is out to claim nowadays.

Hope it all goes well, sorry I can't offer more advise.
 
This is my opinion, but others may disagree. Does the yard have CCTV? If so review it for the instance and get some pictures of her pushing weelbarrows etc. That way should a claim be made, there is evidence she is actually ok.
 
I do agree that it sounds a little suspicious; if she is claiming already for a bad back, surely there is no proof that your horses would have caused it.
From what I know of english law, without 3rd party insurance you would be laible if it could be proven; I would ask the lady to go to hospital/back specialist, and say that if it was completely proven that it was your horses fault, say that you would pay fpr treatment of organise some form of compensation, but if not, make her pay for the treatment aswell as a massive apology to both you and your daughter.
 
I doubt she' be able to sue you to be honest but then these days who knows! Shame you don't have PL insurance though cos then the insurers could fight your corner for you!

Are you sure you don't have any liability cover say through your home insurance?

If this person has seriously got a solicitor working for them then you would have to do the same I would think (but then that's going to cost). Perosnally, i'd be tempted to secretly take pictures of this person going about the yard duties (is this deemed as spying?!) and I am hoping others on the yard would be witnesses too. The livery owner would surely know what this person's actvities have been on the yard?

I really think they'd struggle to build a case but you know what this whole bloody claim for anything culture's like!
 
Even if she proves negligence (which MAY be possible under the Animals Act), she would still need to prove causation. If the claim was accepted, the Insurers would obtain copies of her medical records and GP notes.

If you have household insurance you will probably find you have legal assistance on there. PM if you want.

Definately keep track of what she does. If you can get any photos/video then that would be brilliant. I deal with serious personal injury claims and at least 50% of my cases involve an element of fraud. Its shocking what people think they can get away with.
 
To be honest if she is already claiming for a bad back I dont see how she can then say the horse caused it. Make sure you record the dates of everything that happended and make notes! Also like cruiseline stated get pics and if the YO said something for them to do this surely your not the only one that thinks its all a scam?
Im sure you will be fine but just prep yourself ready for a fight!
GOOD LUCK!!!
 
Did anyone else see your horse kick her? If not it will never stand up in court as it will just be her word aghainst erm your horses!!!

Sorry this is entirely off topic and hijacking, but Meowkiss... what a gorge horse in your siggy!
 
Counter claim for harrassment. That'll shut her up.

I can't see that she has a leg to stand on, but if in doubt - contact a solicitor perhaps...
 
Counter claim for harrassment. That'll shut her up.


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If I were to claim for every time a horse stands on my foot, shoves me , bites me or slobbers on me when I am saddle fitting I'd be a very rich man!
IT happens,tell her to live with it and get on with life, horses will be horses and ANYONE with any sense knows you have to take every precaution round them, I certainly don't go near the hind legs of any horse that I am not happy with, no matter what the reason, she should look where she's going next time!
Oz
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The advice others have given here is right - the most important thing is to make sure you have got your evidence in order. Right down everything you remember as soon as you can in as much detail and then date a copy of it - ask your children to think of anything they can remember and get them to right it down too. Ask your friends at the old yard what they remember and make a note of that too. Ask them if it came to it whether they would mind saying what they have said in court. If it does come to court (and you can't stop her from suing you) then at least you will have contemporaneous notes of everything.

Sadly I have seen this sort of thing happen a lot, as we are in a compensation culture. In my job, our insurers fight every "slip and trip" to the bitter end as most of them are just simply accidents, but in the past insurers were not so smart and cases were there was an element of fraud got through. If this person has made a successful claim before she will know how to play the system so you have to be ready with your evidence and your witnesses.

Just a thought - if your children are only 13 are they with the pony club and therefore covered by their insurance?

I hope very much that she does not sue you.

Good luck
 
I can't see that she has a leg to stand on to be honest. It wouldn't overly worry me however I would call CAB just to check.
 
Thanks for all the replies. We are checking our insurance at the moment, my dad has 3rd party insurance for his horses and he brought Lucia for my daughter so fingers crossed. There is no CCTV at the livery so it is her word against the horse. We had thought about taking pictures of her working as I've been told she is on the sick with a bad back. Its just so frustrating, my daughter is distraught that we are being accused of having a dangerous horse, and she is so far from it. Even if we have insurance I begrudge giving them a penny as they laughed when they drove off affer telling us we were being sued. I AM SO ANGRY!!!! We are not members of the BHS, my daughter is unaffiliated at the moment and has only had Lucia, an absolutely gorgeous dapple grey TB x Con for 3 months, and since we brougt her in July she has not put a foot wrong. One bit of good news is that the livery owner will ask them to leave if they pursue this. Hopefully this will sort itself out but in the mean time we will start sneaking around with a camera!
 
If your Dad has third party insurance then you should be covered. Notify them immediately and let them deal with any correspondence from the claimant. Failure to notify them in a timely fashion may mean they decline policy cover.

When you say you are being sued, have you actually had a formal letter of claim detailing allegations of negligence and the like? There is a strict procedure to follow under the Pre-Action Protocol and this should be adhered to. If she has a solicitor acting for her then they will do this. If you have had nothing but idle threats then I would simply make sure everything is in order should the formal letter come in.

Unfortunately, telling them to live with it and/or counter claiming for harassment, lovely as it would be to do so, is not going to help you so I would not go down that route, personally.

As I said, I defend cases like this on behalf of an insurance company so if you need any further advice I am more than happy to help via pm. You wont need to advice of a solicitor at this stage as I can help you with the legal jargon etc.
 
Someone tried to sue me once over my young horse kicking but my solicitors made mince meat of the claim, I would say they were aiming any claim at the Yard owners and the list of questions they were asking about systems and procedures on the yard to protect people would make yours eyes water.

IO would check to see if you have any insurance anywhere that you can call on because if not even getting Solicitors involved will be expensive.

If this lady is off sick with a bad back, how come she was doing her horses anyway prior to being kicked. It all smacks of a p@@s take but unfortunately there are no win no fee lawyers who will take the case on. FWIW I think she won't have a claim that can be sustantiated.
 
Being around any large animal is dangerous - we all know that.

I wonder what she did to 'protect' herself in the first place?

I know, from an incident involving a friend at my previous yard, how complacent we can all become around horses that we see - and to an extent deal with - every day.

My friend's leg was very, very badly broken by a horse kick in the field - through no fault of her own - other than being within kicking distance of a horse by the field gate. The horse was not a known kicker, but accidents do happen.

It was very sobering for all of us, and made us re-evaluate our behaviour around horses in the field. Especially at bringing in time, when there can be a bit of a scrum.

It was a horrible accident. But that's all it was - an accident. The horse wasn't a kicker or dangerous. Both were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
 
I think they are bluffing ,I don't think any ' no win , no fee' solicitor would take it on.
It would be a good idea to get some cover , you could join Pony Club or BSJA do a cheap one.
 
I have to say, I am a YO and a number of years ago I had 2 friends (not my friends) keeping their horses on my yard. One day, one of the friends decided that due to being rear-ended in the other friends car (suffering alleged whiplash) a few months previously, she would sue her. The minute I heard about this her days were numbered on my yard - I found a reason to ask her to leave, within a week or two of hearing this news, and handed her one months written notice to find alternative accommodation.

She was also using no-win-no-fee lawyers - I later heard that she was unsuccessful with her claim.
 
How come, if a horse kicks a horse in a field - its just what they do. But if it kicked a human (invading their territory) its dangerous? Also, if she passed close enough to get kicked then she wasn't being very careful was she, and took that risk her self.

Surely you enter an animals field at your own risk? Owners have no control over their animal in the field - when they are being allowed to behave like animals and display their natural characteristics (as they have to do as stated in the animal welfare act). Also if she went in with a stick and waved it about knowing it would scare the horses that lady was knowingly causing them distress - a no no in this new animal welfare act to.

Also, if it happened at a livery yard, surely it would be covered by their insurance?
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think they are bluffing ,I don't think any ' no win , no fee' solicitor would take it on.
It would be a good idea to get some cover , you could join Pony Club or BSJA do a cheap one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope they are, however, if they know the system, they will probably have done this before and know how easy it is to get money out of people. They sound particularly charming!

Getting Insurance now wont assist as the cover will start from today (or when you take it out) - It wont cover the (alleged!!) accident date.
 
I can't give you any advice about the legal action she is bringing against you I'm afraid (but really does sound like she doesn't have a hope of winning to me unless there was a witness to the kick you haven't mentioned?), but if you are pretty sure that she is claiming benefits because of her 'bad back' then I would shop her to the DSS pretty sharpish. There is a way of doing this anonymously, I think.

Revenge can be sweet, sometimes.
 
[ QUOTE ]
How come, if a horse kicks a horse in a field - its just what they do. But if it kicked a human (invading their territory) its dangerous? Also, if she passed close enough to get kicked then she wasn't being very careful was she, and took that risk her self.

Surely you enter an animals field at your own risk? Owners have no control over their animal in the field - when they are being allowed to behave like animals and display their natural characteristics (as they have to do as stated in the animal welfare act). Also if she went in with a stick and waved it about knowing it would scare the horses that lady was knowingly causing them distress - a no no in this new animal welfare act to.

Also, if it happened at a livery yard, surely it would be covered by their insurance?

[/ QUOTE ]

Until all the allegations are made it is hard to form a view on liability. She may well have witnesses and we dont know if she was chasing the horses with a whip at the time of the alleged 'kick'. On the face of it, I agree, she will be hard pressed to win this claim. However, if there have been similar incidents/near misses in the past with horse surrounding the gate, then the yard owner could be brought into the action for failing to take adequate precautions which could prevent an accident. The faikure of the claimant to avoid getting too close to the horse would be considered contributory negligence and would certainly help reduce any compensation payout but wont reduce it completely.

There is also the question of the Animals Act, which places a strict liabilty on the owner of the horse. There was a recent case where the owner of a racehorse (who wasnt even present) was successfully sued after someone was kicked by their horse at a race meeting and seriously injured.

If I was the Yard Owner I would certainly be informing my insurance company. The OP may well be covered under that policy too, but without a copy of the same I couldnt comment on that.

I do find myself extremely frustrated by how the law is developing. It does appear that any accident has to be someone elses fault.

In my job I often obtain surveillance evidence on people who cant work again and are claiming hundreds of thousands of pounds in compensation. We even caught a so called blind taxi driver driving paying passengers around!! (happy day that was). You would be shocked at the difference from when they see the medical expert to when they are out shopping and doing the diy. And yes, we do send these off to the DSS and let them do the prosecuting, as invariably they are also claiming thousands in benefits...oops, sorry just realised I went into rant mode!!
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Merlotmonster I like the sound of your job!! I LOVE snooping.

It angers me just what folk think they can get away with. Like u say, NOTHING seems to be an accident now. If u trip cos your not paying attention then its not your fault for picking your feet up, its whoever put the floor down's fault!

I mean seriously - folk are getting daft! I work in an office where 90% of the folk have a degree, some masters, and like decade of experience - yet we still have a notice up warning that hot water scalds so be careful with the kettle!! I mean WTF!! These guys design million dollar equipment, but cant be trusted with a kettle in case they hurt themselves and blame the company!
 
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