Being the boss

[ester]

why should he be with a herd?

well tbh it is laugh or cry for the poor horse potentially involved when someone comes out with something like this. Especially when no one said that it did need to be in a herd, they just asked why he was on his own. To which there may have been a perfectly reasonable medical or behavioural answer.

So we currently have:
a welsh section a 2 year old that you have bought to ride
are keeping on livery
but is turned out on his own with no other horses around, but there are some in far sight.
is kept in at night potentially with no hay
and is being bolshy at the gate because someone brings feed to it.

Is it entire?

 

[Shay]

I am honestly torn between saying don't feed the troll and mixed horror / compassion for the OP if this is in any way true. Ester you forgot to add that OP is a mum of 3 working 8 - 4 struggling to find time to muck out; no experience with horses but she has gone on a course. Wanted a horse because her best friend has one. But quite upset that others at the livery have been remarking about how unsuitable an unbroken youngster is for a novice.

I've called someone out as a wind up before and it turned out to be true - I apologized then and I'll apologize now if I need to.

OP if this is any way true please get yourself some professional horsey help. An unbroken youngster is not suitable for a novice owner. This is a bit like the toddler time in a horse's life and it you don't allow him to socialize with his own kind and don't back / bring him on correctly you will end up with a horse who can't be managed and may well end up being shot. I'm really sorry if that sounds harsh. But horses have a finite time to really learn their manners both with each other and with humans. You are in the middle of that time and you have a horse turned out alone.

As was suggested on one of your previous threads you might be better off selling this one, or sending him away to a professional for a couple of years to be backed and produced correctly. And getting something more established and more suited to someone with limited experience and - as a mum - seriously limited time.

 

[J_sarahd]

I did not realise that this pony was a 2yo or the whole background to this thing. As many others have said, a pony this young needs that time to develop social skills and manners by other horses. That is the reason he's being bolshy and rude. As Shay said, this pony is in the 'toddler' stages of his life so needs that interaction with others before starting his education. Think of it like this - children who go to nursery or playgroups are less likely to find starting school as difficult as those who have had no interaction with other children.

If what people are saying is true and you've bought this 2yo to ride and that you have no horsey experience, I really do feel for the poor pony. Youngsters should really only be bought by experienced equestrians. They require so much time (which apparently you're struggling for), compassion and discipline otherwise they're just going to turn into unrideable and rude monsters, basically. I've been around horses for 16 years and I still don't think I know enough to bring on a youngster, especially one that isn't backed yet. If you're expecting to just throw a saddle on this pony when he reaches maturity and ride off into the sunset, you're seriously going to have a wake up call in a few years. I definitely suggest you sell up and buy something more suitable if you're adamant on having a horse. With all due respect, this pony is going to be wasted with you because you won't be able to give it the proper education on your own.

 

[ester]

I guess we will see if they hang around this time and answer the questions asked by people who know what they are talking about and just want some more information to help or not, as they disappeared off the last thread with a lot of unanswered queries.

Shay I have done that before too but the person actually took all of the advice, including the associated incredulous with amazing grace, I am less inclined to believe when people start flouncing about how bitchy the horse world is when the ridiculousness of their situation for their equine charge is pointed out.

 

[Charleyrobinson]

Thank you for all your replies. I am not selling my pony and I’ve decided to get another horse to keep him company and also do myself and my children can ride. Hopefully it’ll teach the pony a thing or too. Everyone starts somewhere I love my pony and I’m never selling him.

 

[J_sarahd]

Thank you for all your replies. I am not selling my pony and I’ve decided to get another horse to keep him company and also do myself and my children can ride. Hopefully it’ll teach the pony a thing or too. Everyone starts somewhere I love my pony and I’m never selling him.

I thought you didn't have time to even muck out? Let alone look after two horses

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Thank you for all your replies. I am not selling my pony and I’ve decided to get another horse to keep him company and also do myself and my children can ride. Hopefully it’ll teach the pony a thing or too. Everyone starts somewhere I love my pony and I’m never selling him.

The problem is that one other horse isn't enough to turn a youngster out with, really, they need a mix of companions, so that they have someone to play with and someone to teach them some manners and social skills. Unless you are very careful/lucky you won't be able to separate the two to do anything with just one of them.

 

[Charleyrobinson]

Ive actually formed a really good routine with him and I’m down there a lot more that I thought I’d be

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Thank you for all your replies. I am not selling my pony and I’ve decided to get another horse to keep him company and also do myself and my children can ride. Hopefully it’ll teach the pony a thing or too. Everyone starts somewhere I love my pony and I’m never selling him.

I'm honestly struggling to believe this is genuine now. A quick glance at your posts shows you're clearly massively out of your depth and of all the advice you've received on this and previous threads you've decided the best course of action is to buy another one when you're already struggling with the one you've got is beggars belief and being somewhat cynical, seems a bit goady after all the great advice you've received.

 

[Charleyrobinson]

Why would I make it up?

 

[Shay]

Who knows - people do. Possibly to get a rise out of someone. Perhaps for attention. Maybe you are not and it really is as bad as this seems.

OP - my heart goes out to you. There are clearly a number of significant issues here. Please get some professional help. I completely understand that you have fallen in love with your youngster. But you are going to get your heart seriously broken as well as putting yourself and your children at physical risk. Not to mention potentially ruining a young horse who had no choice in the matter. You don't have to sell them - you just need help whilst you and they learn.

I know it was said in an earlier reply but it bears repeating. At 2 pony really needs to be out in a mixed age herd to learn what it is to be a horse and how to respond to his own kind. You will then use that knowledge and those social skills to teach him how to interact with humans. If those basic social skills are missing the horse will really struggle to understand training. If you really want the best for them see if you can find somewhere where he can be out 24/7 in a herd at a location used to youngstock. At least for the winter. Then either bring him back next year and start to back him with professional help - or let him stay there for them to back him and work with him there.

It is so easy to ruin a youngster.

 

[LadySam]

See, the thing is OP, that at 2 years old he's still a baby. He is most definitely not an adult yet. He doesn't seem like a baby because he hasn't needed his mum for a long time and he seems quite independent, but he really is still a baby. Mentally more than physically, though at 2 he's still got physical growing to do.

A big part of what that means is that he still needs other horses to teach him how to be a horse. Horses are very social animals because they've been hardwired over thousands of years to be in a herd. That means learning how to be part of a hierarchy and figuring out how to make his place in it. There are important social skills other horses can teach him that you (or any human) just can't teach. The social skills he will learn with other horses will set him up for every other experience he will have in his life, with humans or horses.

The companion horse you mention would be good for an older horse who has already learned these lessons and just needs a horsey friend. But a baby like yours needs a herd at this point in his life to learn his lessons about his place in the world.

Lack of exposure to a herd at an early age can lead to all sorts of insecurities. The big danger for you, especially with a Welshie, is aggressiveness - either to mask insecurities or just because he'll be full of himself without the experience of other horses to put him in his place at this crucial point in his development. When you (or whoever) come to train and back him, you are inviting all sorts of unnecessary issues that you can prevent from happening now with proper socialisation. This issue with manners around food you're seeing now? Turnout with other horses could help you with that.

JJS just posted a video of her foal acting very big for her boots with her mum. Watch it. You will see how Mary, the foal's mother, deals with that. Mayflower is only 5 months old, but a 2 year old horse still needs these kinds of lessons from other horses. (May is half Welshie too, so you can see a bit of what you'll be in for.)

Honestly, this kind of exposure to other horses now will help him develop into a happier and more confident adult who understands the world around him. And that will head off all kinds of problems for you in the future. This is what Shay means by "It is so easy to ruin a youngster". If you don't set him up right at this age mentally and socially, you're setting him and yourself up for some very hard times ahead.

You've been given some good advice on this thread. Please listen to it. We know what we're on about. We get a bit bolshy ourselves sometimes, but everyone wants what is best for the horse and you.

 

[Sparemare]

Good post Lady Sam

 

[Charleyrobinson]

Thank you for your reply
We have got a new horse today and also the lady from my yard has put her gelding in the paddock too

 

[JDH01]

Lady Sam great response thanks

 

[LadySam]

Thank you for your reply
We have got a new horse today and also the lady from my yard has put her gelding in the paddock too

That's good. That will help. I think an ideal setup would be to invite two more horses to this party, but what you've done is good.

 

[Leo Walker]

Thank you for your reply
We have got a new horse today and also the lady from my yard has put her gelding in the paddock too

in less than 24 hours? That was quick and even I am starting to be a bit suspicious now...

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Thank you for your reply
We have got a new horse today and also the lady from my yard has put her gelding in the paddock too

So let me get this straight (I'll ignore the obvious speed of which you've acquired a supposedly suitable second horse)...instead of quarantining the new one and gradually introducing all three to each other they've just been chucked in a paddock together?

 

[fburton]

So let me get this straight (I'll ignore the obvious speed of which you've acquired a supposedly suitable second horse)...instead of quarantining the new one and gradually introducing all three to each other they've just been chucked in a paddock together?

That is an extremely common scenario and, in most cases, things works out fine. Obviously there is a risk associated with everything we do with horses, and that goes up when situations change. It's important to keep an eye out for problems.

Even if OP is trolling, it should be possible to offer constructive advice that would be useful to other people in OP's supposed position who are reading this thread.

 

[SpringArising]

So let me get this straight (I'll ignore the obvious speed of which you've acquired a supposedly suitable second horse)...instead of quarantining the new one and gradually introducing all three to each other they've just been chucked in a paddock together?

Pretty common and nothing wrong with that. Two ways to skin a cat.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Fburton I'd like to think for the most part I've been constructive. I would advise anyone to quarantine a new arrival having witnessed the damage strangles can do and value my horses too much to just chuck them out without gradually introducing them to a new herd. On our yard it just wouldn't happen any other way.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Pretty common and nothing wrong with that. Two ways to skin a cat.

Pretty common? Maybe. Good practice? No.

 

[ycbm]

So let me get this straight (I'll ignore the obvious speed of which you've acquired a supposedly suitable second horse)...instead of quarantining the new one and gradually introducing all three to each other they've just been chucked in a paddock together?

I don't know anyone who keeps their horses at home or in a small rented place who quarantines. In forty years I've never had a horse in quarantine, livery or at home.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Pretty common? Maybe. Good practice? No.

exactly-its alright until its not, then you have months of shut down, extra vets bills for everyone and possibly long term damage to horses. I wish more yards quarantined, strangles has been rumbling around the central belt for the last few years now purely because yards do not.

I keep mine at home, I cannot quarantine but at the rate I introduce new horses I have to suck it up, its my risk and mine alone. I do basic things and monitor temps for the first few weeks.

 

[ester]

I wish everyone on hho could buy a new horse quite so quickly.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

I wish everyone on hho could buy a new horse quite so quickly.

Easy, go on local Facebook horse group, there are always a number of sorry equines free to good home, or 'must go by weekend' and the like
Never mind if it doesn't fit in within a day or so, you can always pass it on to another punter by advertising it on Facebook.....

 

[FestiveFuzz]

I don't know anyone who keeps their horses at home or in a small rented place who quarantines. In forty years I've never had a horse in quarantine, livery or at home.

I can't speak for those that keep their horses at home or on rented yards as I've only ever been on livery yards and all new arrivals have been quarantined. Personally I think it's a needless risk to introduce to a herd without taking precautions, though if you keep at home I guess that risk is yours alone.

 

[ycbm]

I think unless you have a closed yard where no horse ever leaves and comes back again in a short time, that quarantine of a symptom free new horse coming from a symptom free previous yard is pretty pointless. I suspect far more infection is caused by symptom free carriers and horses going out to other places than new horses being brought into livery yards incubating infection.

 

[ester]

which is why strangles testing before horses are allowed to enter yards is becoming much more prevalent in some hot spot areas.

The YOs I know have mostly made risk assessments based on where the horse is coming from, if that is a small or private yard after long term ownership no special circumstances will be put in place, if it is coming off the boat in a bulk shipment from ireland .... a bit different.

 

[alainax]

Every yard I've been on has quarantined. One with blood tests, disinfect trays and wash station for staff who were moving by between zones. I was shocked to discover on here a few more baths ago that quarantine is but the norm!