Being told I'm cruel for not rugging up!

I really don't see why rug threads cause these little playground scraps.. Some people rug, others don't..

Who cares! There's more worrying things in this world other than a horse rug, blimey get over it you lot it's hardly life and death...
 
risky business said:
I really don't see why rug threads cause these little playground scraps.. Some people rug, others don't..

Who cares! There's more worrying things in this world other than a horse rug, blimey get over it you lot it's hardly life and death...
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Actually, it very much can be a case of life or death. I personally have seen horses die due to heat exposure from over rugging.
 
Moomin1 said:
Actually, it very much can be a case of life or death. I personally have seen horses die due to heat exposure from over rugging.
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I very much doubt it in the OPs case which is what this thread is actually about.. Her horse not needing a rug tonight not a I rug and you don't debate..
 
I rugged a Shetland :O

1385595_10151920101057888_329447117_n_zps54faa8bc.jpg

for all of 30 seconds to take a cute picture.
 
Moomin1 said:
I have very very rarely aimed any personal insults at anyone on HHO. I have however voiced my opinions about their management styles etc. Very different.
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khalswitz said:
Actually, I think that becomes personal very quickly!!!
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I don't think labelling someone 'barbaric' for their management style could be considered anything other than personal Moomin. I fail to see how that is 'very different'.

If you cannot take it, please do not be so ready as to hurl it.
 
nikkimariet said:
I don't think labelling someone 'barbaric' for their management style could be considered anything other than personal Moomin. I fail to see how that is 'very different'.

If you cannot take it, please do not be so ready as to hurl it.
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Oh I can take it. No probs! I did not ever call you barbaric. I said IMO putting that amount of rugs on is barbaric. Difference. One is personal attack, the other is personal opinion.
 
Moomin1 said:
Maybe so. However, being a public forum, people are bound to voice opinions, some agreeing, some disagreeing, with other's methods.
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Indeed. But calling someone barbaric, even indirectly, is a little beyond a simple disagreement over a management practice which is at very worst a minor welfare concern (since the horses in question are fit, healthy and not likely to suffer from heatstroke on account of their frequent monitoring).
 
Moomin1 said:
Maybe so. However, being a public forum, people are bound to voice opinions, some agreeing, some disagreeing, with other's methods.
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I still think calling it 'barbaric' makes it personal, whether you mean it to be personal or not! Saying that you disagree, and that personally you wouldn't have a horse in a HW and thermatex is fair enough - but labelling it barbaric is unfair and harsh.
 
khalswitz said:
I still think calling it 'barbaric' makes it personal, whether you mean it to be personal or not! Saying that you disagree, and that personally you wouldn't have a horse in a HW and thermatex is fair enough - but labelling it barbaric is unfair and harsh.
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Oh well, IMO, it's barbaric. :-)
 
nikkimariet said:
One of many points proven.
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If someone posted on here that they, for instance let's say, ride their 30 year old horse ten miles per day, you are going to get a multitude of opinions on the matter. Some may say it's dependant on the horse, some may say it's barbaric, and some may say it's absolutely fine. Doesn't mean that any one of those posters is being PERSONALLY offensive towards the poster. Just that they disagree with their methods.

How many threads do you see on hho which say rollkur is barbaric? I am sure there are some people on here who actually advocate rollkur/do it themselves. But nobody shouts up that people saying it's barbaric, are being personally offensive.

Whilst we are on the matter, someone implying someone lacks class and brain cells IS personally offensive.
 
Moomin1 said:
If someone posted on here that they, for instance let's say, ride their 30 year old horse ten miles per day, you are going to get a multitude of opinions on the matter. Some may say it's dependant on the horse, some may say it's barbaric, and some may say it's absolutely fine. Doesn't mean that any one of those posters is being PERSONALLY offensive towards the poster. Just that they disagree with their methods.

How many threads do you see on hho which say rollkur is barbaric? I am sure there are some people on here who actually advocate rollkur/do it themselves. But nobody shouts up that people saying it's barbaric, are being personally offensive.

Whilst we are on the matter, someone implying someone lacks class and brain cells IS personally offensive.
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When you're on the other end of it, though, Moomin, it FEELS personally offensive. I'm sure that one person on a thread saying "I do rollkur" feels victimised by the number of people who shout them down - it's different if a logical argument is calmly put forward indicating why it isn'g good for a horse, but calling it barbaric implies things of the person doing it! And on here it is the way it is done - you don't NEED to use a hurtful phrase like 'barbaric' - you could have an rational discussion about WHY you don't think it's right, but calling the people who practice it barbaric isn't NECESSARY, it is just provocative.

There are lots of posters on this forum I really respect, and that is what they do - share opinions, but in a positive way rather than criticising. You are far more likely to make people think about what they do by discussing it with them rather than labelling and offending them. We see it time and again on this forum.
 
khalswitz said:
When you're on the other end of it, though, Moomin, it FEELS personally offensive. I'm sure that one person on a thread saying "I do rollkur" feels victimised by the number of people who shout them down - it's different if a logical argument is calmly put forward indicating why it isn'g good for a horse, but calling it barbaric implies things of the person doing it! And on here it is the way it is done - you don't NEED to use a hurtful phrase like 'barbaric' - you could have an rational discussion about WHY you don't think it's right, but calling the people who practice it barbaric isn't NECESSARY, it is just provocative.

There are lots of posters on this forum I really respect, and that is what they do - share opinions, but in a positive way rather than criticising. You are far more likely to make people think about what they do by discussing it with them rather than labelling and offending them. We see it time and again on this forum.
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Very true.
 
Moomin1 said:
Actually, it very much can be a case of life or death. I personally have seen horses die due to heat exposure from over rugging.
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To add

I have seen horses with major sores due to the owners putting so many rugs on they cut or rubbed into the withers.


This is why I will not do more than 2 rugs, I also have a pet hate about the buckle types rather than the cluck click, and fleeces under turn outs which slip and garote the horse round the neck. I mean the Fal Goliath 14 oz I have is lighter than inferior lower togs weight. Weight and movement on the horses back is just as important as comfort.

I check shoulder area and back as a guide to my rugging if the horses warm I leave it, to many liveries rug to the weather instead of the horse
 
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I hate this "holier than thou" attitude of many horse owners today, many of whom are so blinkered they can't see past the end of their snout.

I have seen horses sweating buckets in the autumn sunshine wearing MW rugs in 20 degrees because the owner feels that just because we are in october the rugs must be on. I personally do not pass comment - their horse....

None of mine are rugged at the moment, the boys will have a rain sheep once clipped, then I'll see what the weather does and rug accordingly. My mare is never rugged, she is a seriously good doer, is retired and the best way for her to lose a little weight is to burn some off over winter - although I am branded as cruel for doing so.....so it's ok to let her get fatter and fatter under a warm rug and be put down in the spring with laminitis then is it??

The mind boggles sometimes.
 
khalswitz said:
My boy has lots of rain sheep in his field. They do smell pretty bad though when damp...
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wet sheep are very stinky!

just to clarify again, for our particular horses there is ZERO chance they rugs will cause heatstroke or rubs or sores. NMT rugs and turns out at 6.30am, i check all rugs/horses temps again at 7.30am when i poo pick, if the weather changes suddenly i re check again before i leave for work at 8.30am and i can go home at any point in the day to check or change as neccesary (i work less than 5mins away), pappy sparkle is home by 2pm most days so could swap/check in an emergency and my lovely livery brings them in at 3pm and grooms and swaps rugs anyway.

so theres absolutely no point discussing how these particular horses could ever end up sore or over hot because it simply isnt going to happen.

for horses to DIE of heatstroke or have gaping sores, the owners must be leaving rugs on for days at a time without checking them, which is not something that would ever happen to mine.

if people stuck to the facts of the situation being discussed, it would be much better/easier/nicer.

given all the information above and being able to see multiple pictures of the horses concerned on this very forum, i think calling their managment barbaric, is illogical when its actualaly clear they probably get checked many more times a day than most peoples horses.

if they are even slightly too warm, rugs are altered, so on the basis of being checked so often and never allowed to get hot or rubbed, again the label of barbaric is not logical.

as far as mentioning "class" goes, i would normally agree but sometimes the obvious needs pointing out, and i notice that you have no defence against the lack of manners :)
 
Hi everyone

Oh dear, I really didn't mean to start any arguments and I'm truly sorry that my thread has.

I just want to say massive thanks to everyone that has replied and it makes me feel so much better knowing I'm not the only one that leaves out naked in the rain. I'm not against rugging her if needs be but she doesn't need it. Even with all this rain the last few days and shes been out 24/7 she is still toasty, snuggly warm. Although the only down side to not rugging in this weather is that you cant ride.

I don't think that I have ever had so many replies before so thankyou to everyone for taking the time to read my thread and reply

xxxx

xxx
 
Don't worry, Finn, it's not your fault - these threads pop up regularly and provide any excuse for certain posters to have a pop at some others. It's always a contentious subject on here. I honestly wouldn't worry about yours being unrugged (or indeed rugged) if they're comfortable and holding condition well. As I say, I have one naked and two rugged (one possibly excessively by some standards, but since he shivers without and loses weight at the drop of a hat, I can't say I care very much for those opinions ;) ).
 
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