Benefits of devils claw as joint supp. vs oils

tallyho!

tallyho!

Following a strict mediterranean diet...
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It's time to give the boy a helping hand. Now, you know how I feel about fishy supplements but have been doing some research on herbs and vege oils. Well, what transpires is that devils claw seems the best to me. I'm sold on the benefits!

However, why is it sold as no-bute or buteless painkillers? It clearly doesn't stop pain but is a natural anti-inflammatory, liver detoxifier and general feelgood tonic.

Why is the main choice HLA, Glucosamine or CLO???? I know HLA very well and think it only works in certain cases of rheumatism so I've ruled that out. Glucosamine - well, mixed reviews in human trials and CLO is fish derivative. Can't go there. In all my years of pony/horse owning, ACV has always been mainstay (I can't ever remember not adding a slosh to feed) and still is for joints but what else do you use?
 
Bute is an anti inflammatory, so it relieves pain.
Devils Claw is available in many different supplements now.The best I have used is Hilton Herbs Reflex ,a combination of herbs inc.DC. for general ease of movement and overall well being. It is also cheaper to use than the liquid ones and the horses love it ,you can see the herbs in it ,its not a fine powder like some.
 
be positive said:
Bute is an anti inflammatory, so it relieves pain.
Devils Claw is available in many different supplements now.The best I have used is Hilton Herbs Reflex ,a combination of herbs inc.DC. for general ease of movement and overall well being. It is also cheaper to use than the liquid ones and the horses love it ,you can see the herbs in it ,its not a fine powder like some.
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Yes sorry I realise that about bute... but I still wonder why DC sold as alternative!!! Especially in acute cases where actual bute NEEDED and it would put me off buying it as a joint supp as it is sold as a painkiller... but I guess that's marketing.

Tahnks for tip, have just bought devils relief so soon as that goes, will try the Hilton one :)
 
Yup I've just put my horse on joint supplements, one thing my vet said [very well known equine vet in the Midlands] is that whatever anybody says to you, don't use Devil's Claw because it IS toxic to the liver.

He said that Maxavita has had some good proven effects, any glucosame, MSM type thing is good.

I bought some Boswellia off ebay, not sure about the long term toxicity of this? Has anybody any experience...
 
What you have to remember that although DC is an anti inflammatory, it is not a "recognised" medicine and therefore has not been subject to the same trials and licensing as NSAIDs like bute. However, from what I understand, most anti inflammatory drugs, regardless of the source, will probably have an impact on the liver. But at the end of the day, so do things like paracetamol, ibuprofen, and alcohol, and how many of us refuse to take them because of their liver-damaging properties? There seems to be less evidence currently to suggest DC is as damaging as bute, Danilon, etc. Doesn't mean it is, or it isn't though.

I everyone has to weigh up the pros and cons and decide for themselves. There is no right or wrong answer, every horse and every case is different. I give DC as a maintenance dose to my oldie who is quite stiff. I started off at the recommended dose for about 3 weeks then lowered it. I can reduce it further or increase it again with her symptoms. I may move to bute again if her arthritis progresses, since she is very old and quite possibly the arthritis will lead to her being pts before her age does. In this case, I see little point in worrying about long term liver damage. (Btw I also give her apple cider vinegar and linseed oil as they are seemingly the most beneficial of the various supplements available.... I refuse to use any fish or shark products.)
 
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Nudibranch said:
What you have to remember that although DC is an anti inflammatory, it is not a "recognised" medicine and therefore has not been subject to the same trials and licensing as NSAIDs like bute. However, from what I understand, most anti inflammatory drugs, regardless of the source, will probably have an impact on the liver. But at the end of the day, so do things like paracetamol, ibuprofen, and alcohol, and how many of us refuse to take them because of their liver-damaging properties? There seems to be less evidence currently to suggest DC is as damaging as bute, Danilon, etc. Doesn't mean it is, or it isn't though.

I everyone has to weigh up the pros and cons and decide for themselves. There is no right or wrong answer, every horse and every case is different. I give DC as a maintenance dose to my oldie who is quite stiff. I started off at the recommended dose for about 3 weeks then lowered it. I can reduce it further or increase it again with her symptoms. I may move to bute again if her arthritis progresses, since she is very old and quite possibly the arthritis will lead to her being pts before her age does. In this case, I see little point in worrying about long term liver damage. (Btw I also give her apple cider vinegar and linseed oil as they are seemingly the most beneficial of the various supplements available.... I refuse to use any fish or shark products.)
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Thanks, thats quite reassuring. It is a matter of weighing it up depending on what needs are.

There are several trials though and against many well known rheumatic drugs like vioxx. You have to search Doloteffin as that is the standardized brand name what DC is marketed as and is recognised by. (wikipedia)

Have thought of flax/linseed but worried about weight gain with mr. lamiprone. I guess for an oldie not such a problem.
 
Does anybody have any links to any evidence that devils claw is harmful to the liver?

I currently give my horse naf devils relief at the maintainance dose for stiffness caused by arthritis.

I have been trawling the internet for answers since reading this post and can't find a definate one with real evidence behind it. Most say that it is totally safe.

Also interecting that one site said it was illegal in competitions, didn't know this. We only do a few riding club shows now anyway due to his age.
 
Hmm.. no I can't find any either. It says use with caution in liver problems but in other articles it says it's a liver tonic :confused:
 
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