Bens sore!! Grrrr!!! Wound debridement?!

Queenbee

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 August 2007
Messages
12,020
Location
Cumbria
Visit site
Well, nothing is working to stop him knocking it or help it heal, it's actually worse at the moment and he knocks it daily! After a wee chat with El vetto who saw him the other day (dear of him was on call all weekend and said to ring if I was worried at all) the consensus is that it started as a bot sore, but it's just overgranulating and it has raised to such a point where healing is just not truly viable because of where it is and how exposed to being knocked. Next week we will be discussing an appointment for removing all the proud flesh so we can try and start from scratch.

We tried to give it one last try, hoping that if it healed enough and the skin went hard that would be ok, but it's just an epic fail every day :(. It thankfully still doesn't seem to bother him in the slightest but it does look sore at the moment, he is such a brave boy letting me bathe it clean every day.

Has anyone had proud flesh removed, what is the process and how much will I be looking at (any ideas). I'm assuming he will have to be sedated I'm certain he will hate them faffing with his face like that, then it's a haul to get it healed again... Failing that if anyone has a bullet? Xx

Oh but good news, I found a fab sharer for him, she came and hacked him out today, she rides really really nicely, she seems a confident but level headed rider with good seat and nice quiet hands, and the best bit... It was love at first sight :D
 

Grumpy Jewel

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 September 2010
Messages
447
Location
Very dry West Sussex!
Visit site
It's not horsey, but from what I remember from my human nursing training, debridement is cutting the skin around the edge of the wound off and giving it a good scrub clean. It's quite rough and thorough, but leaves the wound clean and ready to start the healing process cleanly do less scar tissue/ roughness. I'm sure the vet will have mentioned it as it will benefit your chap as its quite invasive from what I saw in nursing. Hope it all goes smoothly and your sharer works out fab :)
 

Queenbee

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 August 2007
Messages
12,020
Location
Cumbria
Visit site
Thank you, I just hope that by some miracle we are able to come up with a way to keep it clean and dry etc after, being on his muzzle it's just a nightmare! Really is the most infuriating thing to deal with.

Yes I'm really hopeful re the sharer too, she is only 18 but rides really nicely, has two of her own which she has outgrown and seems really committed, she rode out with another livery today for a good hour and the other livery was impressed and has offered me her horse to hack out with Ben and the sharer so I can see for myself and also show her some of the hacking routes, she also rode one of bens breeders horses for a couple of years and I know them, you'd have to be good to be allowed on the back of anything they own. She is covering a colleague who is sick this week so working everyday, so the trial should start next week... Really feeling positive about it :)
 

Hippophilia

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 July 2011
Messages
355
Location
Saskatchewan, Canada
Visit site
My girl had a puncture wound to the knee last year that needed proud flesh removed. She was sedated for it, but was having her teeth done at the same time so was going to be woozy anyway (poor thing had quite the morning). The vet did ask if I was okay with blood before she started as proud flesh has a lot of blood vessels so its removal an be quite messy. I had to keep a pressure bandage and steroid cream on it for weeks and it healed beautifully. She doesn't even have a scar now. The steroid cream is a-ma-zing. It seems to just melt the proud flesh away.
 

Queenbee

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 August 2007
Messages
12,020
Location
Cumbria
Visit site
How on earth does one keep a pressure dressing on the lower part of the muzzle?! Eek!!!!

Some how this will be fixed, it's just a bit of a logistical nightmare :( I'm prepared for the blood bath, the muzzle is quite a vascular area anyway, thankfully blood doesn't phase me.
 

Hippophilia

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 July 2011
Messages
355
Location
Saskatchewan, Canada
Visit site
I'm not convinced the pressure bandage did as much as the cream did. A week or so after Missy's original injury I noticed another small cut on the inside of the same knee buried in her winter fuzz. It had scabbed but had proud flesh and I couldn't see how I could bandage it properly in such a mobile area so I whacked on some steroid cream and hoped for the best. Within a week the proud flesh had gone. This was the middle of winter with deep snow on the ground, so a bit easier to keep clean but still really impressive to my mind. Like the first injury this one healed really quickly once the proud flesh had been dealt with and she has no scar.
 

Spring Feather

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 December 2010
Messages
8,042
Location
North America
Visit site
That's crazy that this hasn't healed up by now. It's been going on for ages. I've seen tons of these bot fly ulcers in my time with horses and they've always healed up within days/a week tops with absolutely no intervention at all. Normally you just leave them alone and they go away.

Anyway, not one of my horses but a horse who's owner rents a field on my farm had an horrific freak injury to the inside of his hock and down his cannon bone. He flayed the skin off and did a fair amount of damage to blood vessels. The open wound was a good 8 inches long and about 5 or 6 inches wide. It started to heal very well but as often is the case in the recovery of this type of wound, proud flesh started making a show a few weeks in. The vet was going to handle it by cauterizing the proud flesh. Owner wasn't too keen on that so I suggested to her to use Manuka honey. She wasn't able to find Manuka but I did find her a bee farm close by who made unpasteurised honey and she bought a couple of jars of it. She smeared the honey on twice daily and the proud flesh just dropped off. After a few months the area had totally healed up (the horse still has leather there, no hair, but it's totally sealed and causes no problems). I would for sure use honey if any of mine had an open injury in an area which is difficult to deal with.
 

Bigginge

Well-Known Member
Joined
16 March 2007
Messages
173
Visit site
Obviously you need the vet to actually see it but if its crusty and sore it may be infected and need some antibiotics, if it is just the proud flesh then I second getting the vet to give you the steroid cream. The steroids inhibit the healing mechanisms that have gone into overdrive creating the proud flesh. I've had two wounds that went proud sorted out in days with careful application of betnovate, you can also get betnovate with neomycin antibiotic in too, and no need for cutting away or pressure bandaging or harsh caustic agents (though again that I guess is the vets call on how proud it actually is)

ETA manuka's benefits are purported to be antibacterial, so will help control any infection but the steroid cream will directly affect the mechanism causing the proud flesh.
 
Last edited:

WelshD

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 October 2009
Messages
7,973
Visit site
I had the procedure done on one of my goats who had a thorn cause a big lump under his eye which had been on and off weeping, getting sore and getting knocked for about a year

I was amazed how much better the area looked even straight after the procedure, it was obviously sore but being flat healed very easily with just salt water washes every few days

there is the faintest hint of what happened but the hair grew over the area no problems its just a little tiny bit raised

It was the best thing we did as it was just stuck in a cycle of healing and soreness before

I would imagine you will have a harder time due to the spot where the lump is though :(

The procedure cost a couple of hundred pounds for our goat if I remember correctly but compared to the repeated previous treatments it was worth it
 

TandD

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 August 2012
Messages
1,233
Visit site
If the area can be bandaged to remove proud flesh you can use granulated caster sugar.
Where abouts is it on his snout? Most places can be bandaged or have a dressing put on it
 

Queenbee

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 August 2007
Messages
12,020
Location
Cumbria
Visit site
That's crazy that this hasn't healed up by now. It's been going on for ages. I've seen tons of these bot fly ulcers in my time with horses and they've always healed up within days/a week tops with absolutely no intervention at all. Normally you just leave them alone and they go away.

Anyway, not one of my horses but a horse who's owner rents a field on my farm had an horrific freak injury to the inside of his hock and down his cannon bone. He flayed the skin off and did a fair amount of damage to blood vessels. The open wound was a good 8 inches long and about 5 or 6 inches wide. It started to heal very well but as often is the case in the recovery of this type of wound, proud flesh started making a show a few weeks in. The vet was going to handle it by cauterizing the proud flesh. Owner wasn't too keen on that so I suggested to her to use Manuka honey. She wasn't able to find Manuka but I did find her a bee farm close by who made unpasteurised honey and she bought a couple of jars of it. She smeared the honey on twice daily and the proud flesh just dropped off. After a few months the area had totally healed up (the horse still has leather there, no hair, but it's totally sealed and causes no problems). I would for sure use honey if any of mine had an open injury in an area which is difficult to deal with.
See sf this wound was the same, totally sealed up with no hair and really leathery skin, it was like this for months it was only when we popped him in a field last month 24/7 last month while I was away for a few days that all hell broke loose and it flared up. There must have been something in that field because as I said before he also got a sunburn type sore on his muzzle, whatever it was triggered a reaction, the scarred area which until then was absolutely fine reacted, and now since he keeps knocking the top it's not being able to heal as it should and is becoming over granulated. I have no doubt that if I hadn't put him in that field I would not be facing this problem, it's not that it's a bad field, all other horses that have been in there are fine, it's more that there's something in there that caused HIS muzzle to flare up, just one of those things :(

Another vote for Manuka honey. Good luck.

I keep toying with the whole honey thing, it would be my preferred method... My worry is that it is so close to his nose and mouth that he would smell it and it could annoy him that he couldn't eat it and cause him to rub his head more. It's the kind of thing he would throw a paddy about however, it can't hurt to try :)
 

Spring Feather

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 December 2010
Messages
8,042
Location
North America
Visit site
There couldn't be a thorn stuck in there or some alien object perhaps? That's the only time I've seen wound repeatedly heal and then flare up again. I wonder if it might be worthwhile for the vet to sedate him and have a bit more of a poke around in there?
 

AmyMay

Situation normal
Joined
1 July 2004
Messages
65,908
Location
South
Visit site
There couldn't be a thorn stuck in there or some alien object perhaps? That's the only time I've seen wound repeatedly heal and then flare up again. I wonder if it might be worthwhile for the vet to sedate him and have a bit more of a poke around in there?

Really good idea.
 

Queenbee

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 August 2007
Messages
12,020
Location
Cumbria
Visit site
Just to add, we have used steroid cream, but it's not really helped that much on its own. Have also been religious with washing it with salt water.

Someone asked for a pic, it's not a recent one, this was the begining of September. If you imagine that the middle bit that's red is now a pronounced lump, when he hasn't knocked it it is healed and doesn't look angry, just a solid lump, when he knocks it, it does look angry but not as bad as in the pic... This was the worst day IMO. The granulation keeps happening on what you can see as the red bit, just piling ontop of the existing scar.
1379929_661486773861701_1734369431_n.jpg
 
Top