Bert is very lame.

I should know what time the vet will come on Tues on Monday. I can move the internal one to one calls but I don't like letting team members down and the calls have been booked for ages.

The trustees call is more problematic as I don't think any of the other SLT members can cover for me due to the timing.

He is has been ok on the lunge.

My new boss starts on 2 April, I have been helping to cover the CEO vacancy for the last three months. April is the busiest month of the year for us but with another staff member there there may be more people to step in and provide for me. It also means the Trustees won't need calls with me anymore.
 
SO1 said:
I should know what time the vet will come on Tues on Monday. I can move the internal one to one calls but I don't like letting team members down and the calls have been booked for ages.

The trustees call is more problematic as I don't think any of the other SLT members can cover for me due to the timing.

He is has been ok on the lunge.

My new boss starts on 2 April, I have been helping to cover the CEO vacancy for the last three months. April is the busiest month of the year for us but with another staff member there there may be more people to step in and provide for me. It also means the Trustees won't need calls with me anymore.
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Are you not tempted to get him to a hospital? These multiple tell you nothing vet visits must be mounting up, cost wise. And excellent equine vets are so accessible for you.
 
My equine vets have a full ambulatory service for injuries, colics etc, but still much prefer to do lameness workups at their horsepital, as they have so much more kit and better facilities there.

It works out cheaper than multiple home visits anyway, and the horse gets diagnosed more quickly. Horse can stay in overnight if further tests/more refined nerve blocking is needed the next day.

I really wouldn’t bother with yet another yard visit by your regular vets.
 
I'm Dun said:
Cancel the vet and just book it into a vet hospital. With an intermittent lameness like this he needs a proper work up.
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The vet will nerve block and then I think he will probably refer to a hospital.

As he appears to be only lame under saddle at the moment and possibly only lame when my instructor rides him one of us will need to be available to ride him at the hospital.

My instructor thought he was lame on 1 March thought he was the saddle. I changed the numnah rode him on 2 and 3. Instructor saw me ride on 2, YO saw me ride on 3 and he was super on both occasions. Instructor rode on 5 and thought he was lame. He has had physio, his shoes, and now saddle.

If my instructor had not been riding him I might not had not noticed there was anything wrong.
 
SO1 said:
As he appears to be only lame under saddle at the moment and possibly only lame when my instructor rides him one of us will need to be available to ride him at the hospital
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RVC have equine techs available to ride, some lightweight enough for ponies. I've always been there so they've asked me to ride then their person but often the owner doesn't ride just them.

They also have the sensors that they put on which can assess gait and spot irregularities not always visible to the naked eye.
 
I think you are throwing good money after bad to not just get him a proper work up now. Even if your vet nerve blocks him then refers, the hospital will still nerve block him.

Why can’t you ride him there? Book a whole day off and take him yourself. This isn’t urgent, book it in for when you can get time off. You won’t get any further forward with the same vet just coming and looking at him repeatedly.
 
Intermittent, low grade lameness can be much more difficult to diagnose than something which is more obvious but can still be something significant going on. I have one with a ligament injury who is only lame on a smallish circle with a rider, but the ultrasound shows significant damage. The vet clinic is a much cleaner place to do blocks and they usually have better facilities for lunging on the hard / soft surfaces. Nerve blocks rarely give a diagnosis, just an indication of where to look with xrays or ultrasound. Since you have a massive problem with getting time off I would just cut to the chase and go straight to vet hospital like everyone else is suggesting. A tricky to diagnose lameness will almost certainly end up there anyway.
 
Oh SO1 I’m so sorry this really sucks. Nothing to add that others haven’t already said on the logistics front xx
 
Patterdale said:
I think you are throwing good money after bad to not just get him a proper work up now. Even if your vet nerve blocks him then refers, the hospital will still nerve block him.

Why can’t you ride him there? Book a whole day off and take him yourself. This isn’t urgent, book it in for when you can get time off. You won’t get any further forward with the same vet just coming and looking at him repeatedly.
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If the problem turns to be only when my instructor rides him then I will need to arrange a time when she can go to the hospital so she is going to have to take time off work which is not that easy as she also works as a groom on other yards as well as our yard and has her own horses.

I also have not got round to doing the PSSM test as it is important to rule that out but I don't think it will be that.

At the moment the least stressful thing for me is to let the vet come on Tues when my instructor can ride. It doesn't involve her having to take time off work. The vet can see him on the surface he is ridden on and what is happening. He can do basic x-rays and scans. If he cannot see anything then he will need to go for a work at hospital.

I think it is quite urgent to find out the problem as if it is a soft tissue injury he needs box rest not field rest.

I would not be surprised if he has more than one issue.

The only good thing is I have quite a well paid job, savings and he is on a rehab yard so if ends up needing box rest and rehab I don't need to think about moving him to a rehab yard as I would not be able to manage box rest and controlled exercise when working full time and having to support my parents.
 
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My concern is that is that it might be a soft tissue injury in the hoof. Because of the stiffle issue vet wants to avoid box rest and because of his weigh turning away on grass is risky.
 
My gut instinct from the beginning was something soft tissue, but then again, I haven't actually seen the horse/lameness/issue in person. Hopefully, whatever it is, you can get it sorted.
 
Sorry to hear he's not right again SO1.

Save yourself some stress, some Bert some hassle, and head towards a proper work up asap if time allows (heck, just take a day off if needs be and deal with the fall out after - you sound like you're senior enough, therefore adult enough to make that sort of decision). Having someone independent ride him for a fresh pair of eyes/feel is no bad thing either imho.
 
Tiddlypom said:
What diagnostics were done on the stifle issues?

Just to muddy the waters, a horse that is in reality lame behind can present as lame in front. All the more reason for a proper work up.
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Stifle issue back in October he was lame right hind 6/10 lame. Vet couldn't see anything obvious though he had been kicked on his flank and said he had some scar tissue round by his tail. This was a few days after another horse in the field went lame so thought perhaps a scuffle. Said 5 days box rest and if no better he would nerve block. Bute for 3 days and vet came back and he trotted up much better but his stiffle locked 3 times on the lunge. Vet suggested a weeks field rest was completely sound bought back into work and was absolutely fine until January.

I cant remember what date in January but YO then said he came in lame from field and they found a big stone in his hoof took that out and fine. I also can't remember which leg that was either. Then in a lesson on 20 January Instructor thought he took a few lame steps in my lesson. She thought it was saddle related.

Saddle adjusted on 24th January but without anyone available to ride and instructor rides him the next day and he is still not right she thinks it is the saddle. I get the vet out and he is lame left fore very slightly. Vet cannot see anything obvious. Suggest farrier looks at him as farrier coming that week in case abcesses brewing thinks it is hoof bruising as worse on stones and not bad on soft. Farrier comes says hooves "washed out" and he would feel any stones.

Vet is back can't see anything obvious says looks footsore on hard and suggests a week field rest and removes wolf teeth and suggests shoeing but that it can wait until yard farrier returns.

Back a week later and I am able to be there. Trot up sounds on lunge vet says he has lovely paces looks great behind still not 100% on hard and uncomfortable on stones removes remaining wolf teeth fragment and he has another week due to wolf teeth.

Bring him back into work and seems fine for 2 weeks though instructor not happy with saddle. Then instructor thinks he is off again I ride him next couple of days observed by instructor and YO fine with me. Then instructor back on and he is lame. Send video to vet of him under saddle with instructor. Vet suggests field rest until farrier. I am worried it is laminitis so vet out next day 6th says no laminitis is fine to lunge for 20/30 minutes or ground work to help him to help with weight control but no riding until saddle/farrier is sorted and recommended phyiso.

Phyiso on the Friday 8th says tight left fore and right hind and recommends another treatment in 8 weeks time.

Farrier on 13th. Different vet for sedation trotted up on hard agrees footsore. Saddler booked for 18th sound on the lunge.

Vet on yard for a different horse on 17th so get him to check Bert and he said he is fine to be ridden once saddle sorted but he needs to be ridden long and low because of tightness in shoulders. Says Bert looks slimmer.

Saddler on 18th adjusted saddle as it was 2 sizes too narrow. Instructor was there so it could be checked when she rode. Instructor back on Friday and starts off fine then talking a few lame steps in front in trot so no chance since she last rode him. So issue probably not saddle.

So since 6 March he has been doing ground work and lunging 3 to 4 times a week and looking ok.

Vet has suggested instructor lunge him today and see if he is still sound on the lunge.

I at am my parents this weekend for mum's birthday outing to go to Pink Floyd tribute band which is what she wanted to do. She is much better thankfully but not really feeling in the mood for the concert at all. Sister and BIL are coming at 7pm so we all go to concert.

I have messaged the other 3 SLT members and asked if any of them can be on the Trustees call on Tues as it is important and if not and I cannot get the whole day off would they be ok with me taking the call on the yard with my phone. It is in all of our diaries and we just need one of us to be on the call it doesn't have to be me and one of them has just messaged and said they will cover the call on Tues so I now at least have the day off.
 
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I would throw the book at this now, before you run out of insurance time and money.

I would also get a vet practice that you can actually book an appt with. How crazy for a working owner to have to wait and see what time they will come? I always just say I am happy to pay for a visit, and ask what times they have available, then we negotiate a time they and I can do. On the phone, at that moment.
 
maya2008 said:
I would throw the book at this now, before you run out of insurance time and money.

I would also get a vet practice that you can actually book an appt with. How crazy for a working owner to have to wait and see what time they will come? I always just say I am happy to pay for a visit, and ask what times they have available, then we negotiate a time they and I can do. On the phone, at that moment.
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He is having to rearrange his diary to fit me in on Tuesday and needs the office person to call other clients to move their times. Hence why I won't know what time he is coming until Monday.

I normally like to get the vet out as soon as possible when there is a problem and waiting till I can get a day off delays things hence the yard normally calls and deals with it as sometimes they can get him next day. The last time they managed to get him at 7.30am.

It is not on the insurance yet as I have a £400 excess and because the front lameness is different from the stifle and also he has been out to do wolf teeth at same time and some of calls have been shared calls with other liveries plus I get a 10% discount. Also there is chance it might not get covered on the insurance depending on what the problem is as his vetting x-rays showed mild lateral imbalance flares on his front feet. His stifles will be covered as they were clear on xray for his PPE
 
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YO just called and vet is on his way as he looked lame coming in from the field. They picked out his feet and he looked better. Instructor lunged him and said he took some lame steps.

Vet was coming anyway to drop off some medication for another horse so has said if my instructor can stay to ride him he can see him under saddle too.

I am feeling a bit down so mum is making me a cup of tea and their cat is snuggled with me.
 
ycbm said:
You've never worked in a factory or a school then. I'll bet the school teachers are all rolling their eyes at some of the advice SO1 is being given.

Every organisation I worked in had a booking system and you couldn't just take time off when other people were off, and I think the vast majority of employers have that rule, that cover must be maintained.
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No, actually I'm not. There have been occasions when I have rung school and said that I am waiting for the vet, I'll be there when I can.
Obviously there are environments where much flexibility can't be provided but, except in schools, employees can usually take their holidays when they want. And as discussed on another thread, schools are trying to retain staff by being as flexible as possible within the constraints of school timetables.
 
IrishMilo said:
You know he's lame, the vet knows he's lame - I don't understand why your vet needs to see him under saddle again. I'd be really annoyed with all this back and forth from the vets - I'm annoyed on your behalf!

He just needs a work up and I feel like you're being taken the mick out of.
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I agree- that's too many visits for an unresolved lameness. He should have been booked in for a work up when it reoccurred the first time
 
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TheMule said:
I agree- that's too many visits for an unresolved lameness. He should have been booked in for a workout when it reoccurred the first time
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And the vet continuing to recommend lunging him when they still don’t know what is causing the lameness just blows my mind. The pony needs a full workup and a diagnosis now.
 
SO1 said:
It is not on the insurance yet as I have a £400 excess and because the front lameness is different from the stifle and also he has been out to do wolf teeth at same time and some of calls have been shared calls with other liveries plus I get a 10% discount. Also there is chance it might not get covered on the insurance depending on what the problem is as his vetting x-rays showed mild lateral imbalance flares on his front feet. His stifles will be covered as they were clear on xray for his PPE
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Just to make you aware this is on the insurance now, in so much as the clock starts ticking with the first incident, not when you first claim. So depending what they find you might already be 4 or 5 months down the line.

Your vets don't sound very good and seem to have faffed about an awful lot which must be very stressful. I'd have had a strop and changed vets long ago if that was how they carried on.
 
IrishMilo said:
You know he's lame, the vet knows he's lame - I don't understand why your vet needs to see him under saddle again. I'd be really annoyed with all this back and forth from the vets - I'm annoyed on your behalf!

He just needs a work up and I feel like you're being taken the mick out of.
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This in bold and coloured red, this situation is now ridiculous behaviour by the vet and not much better, imo, by the yard.

He has the standard vet "I don't know what it is" treatment of shoes on and he's still lame. Time for a hospital workup.
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SO1 the only time I've been in a position anything like this I later found out that the yard owner was briefing the vet behind my back, which was misleading him into believing there was nothing seriously wrong with my horse. He later apologised to me for allowing my horse to suffer for longer than he should have.

Is there any possibility that your yard are somehow actively working against getting Bert off to hospital for a proper investigation? Are they so concerned about their reputation as a rehab yard that they don't want to admit that a pony came to them sound from a recent purchase vetting and in their care he has become unsound?

I'm sorry if these suggestions disturb or upset you but you really are being let down by everyone around you as far as I can tell from what you are writing.
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I'm Dun said:
Just to make you aware this is on the insurance now, in so much as the clock starts ticking with the first incident, not when you first claim. So depending what they find you might already be 4 or 5 months down the line.

Your vets don't sound very good and seem to have faffed about an awful lot which must be very stressful. I'd have had a strop and changed vets long ago if that was how they carried on.
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I did have a strop after my initial vets were useless with my TB’s diagnosis, and contacted a vet practice who were well recommended but a little further away. They came out, did nerve blocks and imaging straight away, found problem no.1. That didn’t quite fix it, so after some discussion they examined the x-rays in minute detail, found a possible problem no.2 and treated it. Problem solved (as much as arthritis can be). Similarly, a different vet from my current practice provided a second opinion on the Shetland’s EMS (when the first one ran out of ideas) and came up with a plan to fix her. Never any harm in letting someone else have a look.
 
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